The "tiny" store

In article , Tony Cooper wrote:

I went down to Colonial Photo and Hobby today to buy a back-up CF
card and took a few snaps with my compact camera.

I'll let anyone who views these images decide if it's a "tiny"
store.

Wow, this REALLY burned you. Why do you have so much personal pride
invested into this store? I just don't get it.

I believe Jonas said something about a limited camera inventory, but
I haven't looked up that post to verify this. You can decide from
the photo if the inventory is limited.

Why not just look up what I actually said instead of telling people to
determine if it's something you're not even sure I said?

I said they had a very small number of cameras on the shelves.

I asked Frank if he remembers a tall Swede asking about a Sony A5,

What's a Sony A5?

and he doesn't. The Sony rep hasn't been by the store for quite
some time, and it's the manufacture's reps who train the store's
staff on new products and show the additions to the line. The last
time a Sony rep visited was October 12, 2013, and that was for half
a day.

That's a real shame. They should make sure they don't rely on people that
come so seldom to keep up to date. One of the things I like about the
smaller camera stores here in town is that they always make sure they're
knowledgable about their merchandise, something few big store have.

My photos are not very good. The store layout doesn't allow one to
draw back and photograph parts of the store.

Photos at: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ie0pb5c8zg8hfrr/4RrTw56-4I

You weren't kidding, those were some really crappy photos, why are they so
over-exposed? Is it the camera?



--
Sandman[.net]

In article , Tony Cooper wrote:

Tony Cooper:
I went down to Colonial Photo and Hobby today to buy a back-up
CF card and took a few snaps with my compact camera.

I'll let anyone who views these images decide if it's a "tiny"
store.

Sandman:
Wow, this REALLY burned you. Why do you have so much personal
pride invested into this store? I just don't get it.

You make a lot of claims that are highly dubious, but this is one
that I could personally check out. So I did.

No you didn't. My claim was that it was small, which you didn't check out,
since "small" is relative, Tony. You may think it's enormous, but I don't.
And that really annoys you, that I wasn't greatly impressed by the size of
Colonial. And I can't understand why you have so much pride invested in
a.... store.

Tony Cooper:
I believe Jonas said something about a limited camera inventory,
but I haven't looked up that post to verify this. You can
decide from the photo if the inventory is limited.

Sandman:
Why not just look up what I actually said instead of telling
people to determine if it's something you're not even sure I said?

I said they had a very small number of cameras on the shelves.

What do you suppose are in all those boxes on the shelves?

A small number of cameras.


--
Sandman[.net]

In article , Tony Cooper wrote:

Sandman:
You weren't kidding, those were some really crappy photos, why are
they so over-exposed? Is it the camera?

Awww...I'm wounded.

Sorry, it wasn't my intention, you said they were crappy yourself, and I
was merely agreeing and asking if its the camera or if you purposely choose
to overexpose every image?

--
Sandman[.net]

In article , Whisky-dave wrote:

Sandman:
No you didn't. My claim was that it was small,

You said timy to me when I said I didn;t think i9t wass small why do
you say it is small or tiny ?

I said small in my initial post, but yes, I have also called it tiny.

Sandman:
which you didn't check out, since "small" is relative,

Large is also relative and you claimed it is tiny compared to what
if everything is relative what is it tiny compared to I mentioned
teh moon to help you out last time but you must of missed that hint
on relativity. Also why I brought the Tardis into this.

I know it is relative, that's what I just said.

Sandman:
ex Tony. You may think it's enormous, but I don't.

So it's no enormous compared to an atom of say hydrogen ?

Is that what Tony is comparing it to?

I was the one whop said I'm comparing this to the store where I
borough my camera and I do not think of that camera store as small.

Good for you. I wasn't referring to what you think it is, hoever.

Sandman:
And that really annoys you, that I wasn't greatly impressed by the
size of Colonial.

No you said it wsas small and didn;t have a lot of cameras on offer
but nevber said what you are comparing it with.

No one asked.

Sandman:
And I can't understand why you have so much pride invested in
a.... store.

for me it wasn;t about pride bu the way you decribed a store any
store.

I haven't said it was about pride for you. You are replying to a post that
was a response to Tony. Of course, Tony will claim that any post here is
directed at the "group" so he probably think I was in reference to your
pride as well.

You also claimed you were corect because I've never beejn in
colional store

No, I didn't claim I was "correct", I just said it was tiny, and "tiny" is
relative. Perhaps it's not tiny to you.

but I don't need to do I when pictures are posted the fact hwere is
you've neverc beenn in my local camera store and you've never seena
picture of it so how can you evaluate it size, by looking at yuor arse it
seems.

I have never, at any point, "evaluated" the size of the camera store you've
been to. My reply was: "I'm not sure what the size of a store where you
bought a camera have to do with anything."

Tony Cooper:
What do you suppose are in all those boxes on the shelves?

Sandman:
A small number of cameras.

Define a small number ?

Smaller than you'd find in a larger camera store.



--
Sandman[.net]

In article , Whisky-dave wrote:

Sandman:
A small number of cameras.

Define a small number ?

Just for kicks, I went back to Tony's pictures and counted. His photos
aren't very good so it's hard to see, so there is a margin of error here.
But here goes:

First, there's the Olympus section, which are two cabinets, I count 18
cameras in those cabinets. Though some seem to be in boxes, so let's round
it up to 20 just for the sake of it.

Then we have the Fujifilm cabinet, where I can only count two or maybe
three cameras, and some LED flashes. Lets' round it up to five

Then he took another picture of the Olympus section, so I won't count that
one again.

Then we have the Nikon section, where there are maybe 15-16 cameras, but
let's round that up to about 20 as well for good measure.

Beyond that, we have an unlabeled section with 29 cameras (of which a
surprising low amount is P&S cameras). Let's round it up to an even 30.

Then he took some more picture of shelves he already took pictures of.

Then we have a few cameras in the counter as well, but not many. All in
all, I count 8, but let's rount it up to 10, or maybe 15 if Tony missed
some counter space in his evidence-photo-trip

So, what's the score?

Olympus: 20
Fujifilm: 5
Nikon: 20
Unlabeled: 30
Counter: 15
Sum: 70

So, 70 cameras, hopefully of different makes and models (it's hard to see).
I don't know what kind of camera stores you're used to, but that's not a
huge amount of cameras to me. Just the P&S section of your normal camera
store in here most likely have some 50 models of cameras. Cyberphoto here
in Sweden most likely have over 100 P&S cameras on display, and three times
as many SLR cameras.

Curiously, I didn't see a Canon section in Tony's photos, but as far as I
can make out, there were some Canon cameras on the shelves in the unlabeled
section.

Just for reference, here's a shot which is a bit older, from a local camera
sto

http://sandman.net/files/cyberphoto.jpg

In those two cabinets, there's 56 cameras, and I think there are about 8 or
10 such cabinets in the store, along with other display forms for cameras
and such. So you may understand why I think Colonial was a bit small and
had few cameras?

Here's another view, where you can see more cabinets in the background.

http://sandman.net/files/cyberphoto2.jpg

Hope that helps.

--
Sandman[.net]

In article , Tony Cooper wrote:

Tony Cooper:
I went down to Colonial Photo and Hobby today
to buy a back-up CF card and took a few snaps with my
compact camera.

I'll let anyone who views these images decide if it's a
"tiny" store.

Sandman:
Wow, this REALLY burned you. Why do you have so much
personal pride invested into this store? I just don't get it.

Tony Cooper:
You make a lot of claims that are highly dubious, but this is
one that I could personally check out. So I did.

Sandman:
No you didn't. My claim was that it was small, which you didn't
check out, since "small" is relative, Tony.

How does one "check out" a claim that is based on a relative term
like "small"?

One doesn't, that's the point

One way is to visit the place, take photographs that show contents
and markers of known size that can be used for comparison and
present those photographs so anyone interested can come to their own
conclusion.

Yeah, but "small" is relative, so what are you comparing it with? What is the purpose?

Oh, wait. That's been done.



--
Sandman[.net]

In article , Whisky-dave wrote:

First, there's the Olympus section, which are two cabinets, I
count 18 cameras in those cabinets. Though some seem to be in
boxes, so let's round it up to 20 just for the sake of it.

20 is already far more than my camera shop used to stock.

That's very fascinating, but we're talking about Colonial here, not your camera shop.

I assume you are refering to new cameras rather than second hand

As far as I know, Colonial doesn't deal with second hand cameras, but I don't know for sure.

Sandman:
Then we have the Fujifilm cabinet, where I can only count two or
maybe three cameras, and some LED flashes. Lets' round it up to
five

Seperate counters wow, amazing.

Huh? I'm talking about the glass cabinet's behind the counter, keep up.

Sandman:
Then he took another picture of the Olympus section, so I won't
count that one again.

another section....... this is beginijing to sound more and more
like the Tardis .

If you are to read what I write again, you will note that I said he photographed one section two times.

Sandman:
Beyond that, we have an unlabeled section with 29 cameras (of
which a surprising low amount is P&S cameras). Let's round it up
to an even 30.

Then he took some more picture of shelves he already took pictures
of.

Then we have a few cameras in the counter as well, but not many.
All in all, I count 8, but let's rount it up to 10, or maybe 15 if
Tony missed some counter space in his evidence-photo-trip

So, what's the score?

Olympus: 20 Fujifilm: 5 Nikon: 20 Unlabeled: 30 Counter: 15 Sum:
70

So, 70 cameras, hopefully of different makes and models (it's hard
to see).

For me that's a fair number of cameras for 1 camera shop to have
ready to purchase.

Cool! For me, it's not. And remember, I'm the one that called it small, not you.

Sandman:
I don't know what kind of camera stores you're used to,
I see this as a small shop both in size and stock levels.

other way of telling are from entrances and exits small shops are
allowed to have just one main entrance-exit larger shops have more
and in the UK are reqiured by law due to the fire requlations to
alloow more people in/out through the main doors.

Colonial might have had a back exit, but mind you - the actual STORE is fairly large, but the camera section only makes out 16% of the entire store.

Sandman:
but that's not a huge amount of cameras to me.

It's not huge to me either but far more than I'm used to seeing in
just one shop, well new and DSLRs.

Good for you!

Sandman:
Just the P&S section of your normal camera store in here most
likely have some 50 models of cameras.

I don;t count P&S outlets as camera stores

Neither do I, which is why I didn't say anything like that.

but are stores that sell cameras, such as PC world, argos and amazon perhaps.
Yes amazon are a huge 'store' aren't they, but I don;t consider them camera
stores, which is what we were talking about.

Sandman:
Cyberphoto here in Sweden most likely have over 100 P&S cameras on
display, and three times as many SLR cameras.

SO is this store smaller than colonial or stuart cameras, you've not
shown a picture of the store just what they advertise so we don't
know if yuor size refernece is due to the number of cameras on shop
in teh store their turnover, their showroom floor or anything else.

Perhaps you should read the entire post until you respond, ey? Or at least go back and delete something that is out of place when you've read the entire post.

Sandman:
Curiously, I didn't see a Canon section in Tony's photos, but as
far as I can make out, there were some Canon cameras on the
shelves in the unlabeled section.

Try that on college cameras

Why? I don't care about "college cameras" in any capacity.

Sandman:
Just for reference, here's a shot which is a bit older, from a
local camera sto

http://sandman.net/files/cyberphoto.jpg

In those two cabinets, there's 56 cameras, and I think there are
about 8 or 10 such cabinets in the store, along with other display
forms for cameras and such. So you may understand why I think
Colonial was a bit small and had few cameras?

and why I considered my camera store as being much smaller as it
only had one such cabinet.

Again, "your" camera store is not the topic here.

Sandman:
Here's another view, where you can see more cabinets in the
background.

http://sandman.net/files/cyberphoto2.jpg

that shot makes the premisies look larger than colonail but does
that make the colonial store small or tiny I don't think so.

Colonial's camera section certainly is tiny in comparison. Again, we have as many cameras in TWO cabinet's in Cyberphoto as all of Colonial, and there are many cabinets (more than seen in these images)


--
Sandman[.net]

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 25 April 2014 15:18:48 UTC+1, Sandman wrote:
In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:



Sandman:

A small number of cameras.



Define a small number ?



Just for kicks, I went back to Tony's pictures and counted. His photos
aren't very good so it's hard to see, so there is a margin of error here.
But here goes:


First, there's the Olympus section, which are two cabinets, I count 18
cameras in those cabinets. Though some seem to be in boxes, so let's round
it up to 20 just for the sake of it.

20 is already far more than my camera shop used to stock.
I assume you are refering to new cameras rather than second hand


Then we have the Fujifilm cabinet, where I can only count two or maybe
three cameras, and some LED flashes. Lets' round it up to five

Seperate counters wow, amazing.


Then he took another picture of the Olympus section, so I won't count that
one again.

another section....... this is beginijing to sound more and more like the
Tardis .


Then we have the Nikon section, where there are maybe 15-16 cameras, but
let's round that up to about 20 as well for good measure.

and it doesn't stop here does it.


Beyond that, we have an unlabeled section with 29 cameras (of which a
surprising low amount is P&S cameras). Let's round it up to an even 30.


Then he took some more picture of shelves he already took pictures of.



Then we have a few cameras in the counter as well, but not many. All in
all, I count 8, but let's rount it up to 10, or maybe 15 if Tony missed
some counter space in his evidence-photo-trip


So, what's the score?


Olympus: 20
Fujifilm: 5
Nikon: 20
Unlabeled: 30
Counter: 15
Sum: 70



So, 70 cameras, hopefully of different makes and models (it's hard to see).

For me that's a fair number of cameras for 1 camera shop to have ready to
purchase.


I don't know what kind of camera stores you're used to,

well here's the one where I brought my 1st telephoto lens.
Pretty similar in size to where I brought my canon A1 but it had two windows
as it was on a corner. It also used to have a studio for hire upstairs.

http://www.allinlondon.co.uk/directory/1297/2434.php

I'd still call this a small camera shop at peak times it hads two sales
assistants, but I haven't been there in this millinium.


Here's the side shot.

but that's not a
huge amount of cameras to me.

It's not huge to me either but far more than I'm used to seeing in just one
shop, well new and DSLRs.


Just the P&S section of your normal camera
store in here most likely have some 50 models of cameras.
I don;t count P&S outlets as camera stores, but are stores that sell cameras,
such as PC world, argos and amazon perhaps.
Yes amazon are a huge 'store' aren't they, but I don;t consider them camera
stores, which is what we were talking about.



Cyberphoto here
in Sweden most likely have over 100 P&S cameras on display, and three times
as many SLR cameras.

SO is this store smaller than colonial or stuart cameras, you've not shown a
picture of the store just what they advertise so we don't know if yuor size
refernece is due to the number of cameras on shop in teh store their
turnover, their showroom floor or anything else.
chedck out college cameras on-line adn how large or small do you think they
are in size revinue or the number of cameras on offer or sold per month.
Do you really thinkl of the products shown that this will be a large store
either physically or in turnover ?

https://www.collegecameras.co.uk/
How many DLSRs do you think they sell 100s a week ?

Lok a 1 ltr zoom bottle they must be selling loads of those to be able to
advistise them on their front page.
Afterall who doesn;t use those4 sorts of bottles for thier chemicals .

I found this kinda stuff.:-) http://tinyurl.com/n2fsv6p
Good to know were to find as I'm contemplating a major scanning effort
the next year or two... Not sure if the device that I found is adequate
though.
I did triy to use the color adjusted computer screen as a lightbox, and
put a loupe over it and a slide... That didn't work! ;-p



Curiously, I didn't see a Canon section in Tony's photos, but as far as I
can make out, there were some Canon cameras on the shelves in the unlabeled

section.

Try that on college cameras and count how many cameras come up.
Yes this is the shop were I brouight mine, they didn;t keep SLRS in stock
other than secondhand, I read the reviews and ask them to get one for me, I
said I was pretty sure of buying it, they ordered it specailly.
In fact it didn;t work teh diaphram never stopped down and I took it back
within the weeks, I'm glad I didn't go mail order or risk a grey import at
the time.




Just for reference, here's a shot which is a bit older, from a local camera
sto



http://sandman.net/files/cyberphoto.jpg



In those two cabinets, there's 56 cameras, and I think there are about 8 or
10 such cabinets in the store, along with other display forms for cameras
and such. So you may understand why I think Colonial was a bit small and
had few cameras?

and why I considered my camera store as being much smaller as it only had one
such cabinet.




Here's another view, where you can see more cabinets in the background.



http://sandman.net/files/cyberphoto2.jpg

that shot makes the premisies look larger than colonail but does that make
the colonial store small or tiny I don't think so.

Yeahyeah whatever!!!
--
teleportation kills
http://tinyurl.com/androidphotography

Sandman:
Just for kicks, I went back to Tony's pictures and counted. His
photos aren't very good so it's hard to see, so there is a margin
of error here. But here goes:

So, what's the score?

Olympus: 20 Fujifilm: 5 Nikon: 20 Unlabeled: 30 Counter: 15 Sum:
70

Really? This is what you are going with?

What do you mean by "going with"?

What you see in the photos are the cameras that are on the shelf for
display.

Uh, yeah? Those are the ones I can see, you know.

There is no particular reason to have more than a few
cameras of any model on display.

Why would they have more than one of the same model, even?

All that's required is that there are enough display units of each
model for the salesmen to be able to handily access one to show a
customer.

Exactly.

In fact, it's bad business to have too many units of the same model
camera out on display.

What's this about "of the same model"? You don't need to have more than one of each model. Sometimes P&S cameras come in several colors, so those can have more of the same model, but otherwise there is no need.

A camera that has been out on display is technically a "display model" and not
a pristine new camera.

Captain obvious strikes again!

What you are not counting are all of the boxes on the shelves below
the glassed-in display area.

Of course not, since I assume those are just boxed versions of the ones on display. I am counting separate models here, not the total amount of cameras in the store. It's the *selection* of cameras that I am in reference to.

There are many photos in that series that show these boxes. The boxes contain
bodies or lenses. That's where Colonial's inventory is located.

Indeed. It's a bit messy, but a lot of older stores do it this way.

You say you don't see a Canon cameras.

Illiterate, or liar? I said I didn't see a Canon *section* and I specifically said that I saw some Canon's in the unlabeled section. Do learn how to read.

That is not an Olympus display behind Frank. There is an Olympus
banner above the section, but the display is not of Olympus cameras.

Ok, I really can't tell from this photo what camera brands are in this image, so I just referenced it as the Olympus section.

Sandman:
Just the P&S section of your normal camera store in here most
likely have some 50 models of cameras. Cyberphoto here in Sweden
most likely have over 100 P&S cameras on display, and three times
as many SLR cameras.

What you are attempting to prove here is that a store's inventory is
based on the number of cameras out on display.

No, I am trying to "prove" that the camera store *selection* is based on the number of separate models on display, since I would consider it foolish for a camera store to have camera models hidden from view, unless they're even smaller than Colonial and there's not enough space.

Fallacious reasoning in the first place

True, which makes it ironic that the reasoning comes from you, not me.

but it raises the point that - if your contention is true - that all buyers of
cameras at Cyberphoto are buying display models that have been available for
handling and use by customers. All cameras at Cyberphoto are "out of the box"
cameras.

Uh, no. They buy boxed cameras, of course. Well, I'm sure they sell out display models at some point as well, but I'm not sure.

Personally, I don't want that. I want to buy a new camera that is
"in the box" and untouched by other customers.

As do I. The display models are, shockingly, for display. You buy the boxed cameras that are in the area below the display area, or in the storeroom.

This is, partly, why I maintain that a well-written premise does not
need substantiation. Your premise - that the number of cameras out
on display indicates the store's inventory - is so poorly
constructed that it begs for substantiation.

Since I never said anything of the kind, you'r arguing with yourself.

By the way, that's a nice looking store layout in the Cyberphoto
pictures. However, it suggests to me that Cyberphoto is kind of a
Best Buy type store where the customer roams around and looks at
cameras on the shelf.

Unlike Best Buy, they are in (probably) locked cases and the customer is not
able to pick them up and handle them, but it's showcase type of display.
Evidently, there's no salesman assistance unless the customer calls one over.

Which, incidentally, makes it a lot more like Colonial than Best Buy. Only difference is that there is no counter obstructing you from the cameras.

Colonial's approach is different. Colonial requires the customer to
ask to see and handle a camera and the salesman brings it out.

I.e. exactly like Cyberphoto.

I'm sure not everyone prefers this approach, but it seems to work
for Colonial.

Due to space constraints. If they had the room, they'd probably also have the cameras in cabinets where the customer can walk up to it and look more closely on them before hailing a salesman.

--
Sandman[.net]

On 25 Apr 2014 14:18:48 GMT, Sandman wrote:

--- snip ---

Just for reference, here's a shot which is a bit older, from a local camera
sto

http://sandman.net/files/cyberphoto.jpg

In those two cabinets, there's 56 cameras, and I think there are about 8 or
10 such cabinets in the store, along with other display forms for cameras
and such. So you may understand why I think Colonial was a bit small and
had few cameras?

Here's another view, where you can see more cabinets in the background.

http://sandman.net/files/cyberphoto2.jpg

That seems to be a much more roomy store than Colonial but it doesn't
look as though it has as much gear out on shelves.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens