This is relevant - "Why solid-state disks are winning the argument".

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I don't expect the password to be stored and authenticated in
individual devices. That way the device would not need to be connected
to the cloud and could still authenticate an old password even after
the password had been changed in all other devices via the cloud. My
expectation and observation is that password authentication *must* be
done via the cloud. No connection to the cloud - no authentication.

obviously, since your appleid password is for accessing icloud or the
itunes store, both of which require internet access of some kind.

It's also used to control access to a number of internal functions
within the iPad.

nope.

Yep.

nope. you're wrong.

other than downloading apps or icloud (which i mentioned above), an ios
device is fully functional *without* an apple id.

On 2014-11-28 04:43:40 +0000, nospam said:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I don't expect the password to be stored and authenticated in
individual devices. That way the device would not need to be connected
to the cloud and could still authenticate an old password even after
the password had been changed in all other devices via the cloud. My
expectation and observation is that password authentication *must* be
done via the cloud. No connection to the cloud - no authentication.

obviously, since your appleid password is for accessing icloud or the
itunes store, both of which require internet access of some kind.

It's also used to control access to a number of internal functions
within the iPad.

nope.

Yep.

nope. you're wrong.


Aaaaaaaggh!!!

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 20:53:08 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2014-11-28 04:43:40 +0000, nospam said:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I don't expect the password to be stored and authenticated in
individual devices. That way the device would not need to be connected
to the cloud and could still authenticate an old password even after
the password had been changed in all other devices via the cloud. My
expectation and observation is that password authentication *must* be
done via the cloud. No connection to the cloud - no authentication.

obviously, since your appleid password is for accessing icloud or the
itunes store, both of which require internet access of some kind.

It's also used to control access to a number of internal functions
within the iPad.

nope.

Yep.

nope. you're wrong.


Aaaaaaaggh!!!

I agree.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

| the point is that you can't boot a computer over the network. you have
| to sleep it for it to be wakeable. when it's off, you have to toggle
| the power button.
|
| No you don't.
|

Do you see where this is going? First nospam
said clouds don't exist. Two people argued
otherwise. To maintain an arguably tenable
position he then switched to a position that
the sky is not *always* cloudy. He's very good
at misrepresenting others' positions in order to
draw them in, but it's really all up to you.
*nospam will NOT stop arguing.* He simply
doesn't have the ability to stop. You can stop
responding to him or you keep going until you
find yourself writing, sometime next month and
with some embarassment, that "clouds can so be
gray even when there's some blue sky visible."
Then you'll be faced with the ultimate horror:
"I've become nospam!"

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

| the point is that you can't boot a computer over the network. you have
| to sleep it for it to be wakeable. when it's off, you have to toggle
| the power button.
|
| No you don't.
|

Do you see where this is going? First nospam
said clouds don't exist. Two people argued
otherwise. To maintain an arguably tenable
position he then switched to a position that
the sky is not *always* cloudy. He's very good
at misrepresenting others' positions in order to
draw them in, but it's really all up to you.
*nospam will NOT stop arguing.* He simply
doesn't have the ability to stop. You can stop
responding to him or you keep going until you
find yourself writing, sometime next month and
with some embarassment, that "clouds can so be
gray even when there's some blue sky visible."
Then you'll be faced with the ultimate horror:
"I've become nospam!"

complete bull****. i have never changed anything and you're trying to
turn it personal. stick to the facts.

in the case of this thread, the other two people are wrong and refuse
to admit it, and what's even more amusing is that one of them provided
a link proving himself wrong and didn't even realize it.

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

Maybe he's not the only one, I had a similar situation.
I have 2 ipad3s under my Apple ID.
I wanted to give one to my brother so he could set up his own ID.
I tried doing this remotely by erasing the iPad but on reading up
on it
...
It would be 90 days before it can be allocated to a new users if I
did
remotely erase via find my iPhone.
Apparenly a 'new' security feature.
So I did it 'hands-on' in order to delete my Apple ID from the ipad
I had
to
type in my Apple ID to delete myself as the user.

remote wipe is not how you do it.

IS not how you do what ?

did you forget what you were asking??

No I wanted to delete myself as the user NOT wipe the ipad.

The Idea is to give your brother a clean, wiped, as new iPad on which
he can use his existing Apple ID, or create a new one.

The idea was to give my brother the ipad.

Good. You have done that. You should have given it to him as a new
device and let him deal with whatever he needs to do to make it
functional for him, including create his own Apple ID. Unless it is
your intent to give him a 100% free ride.

What do you mean by a free ride ?

giving him apps he did not pay for.

Whn my dad owned the ipad he didn't know what email was, so as
I was the only one in the family to have a computer I used my account to set
it up. My father gave me a few quid to buy some apps for him on gardening.
I have **** all interest in gardening so never installed those apps on my
ipad.
The only app, I and my dad had any interest in a the photo transfer app
which I purchased under my account.
When my fahter passed away my brother said you might as well have the ipad
(and cameras) as he (my brother) didn;t know how to use it and was happy
enough going to the library to check his email.

whatever apps you bought are not your brother's apps. he will need to
buy the apps he wants, under his account.

I said to him isn't it time you entered the 21st century.
So I gave him the ipad as I already had my own.
I told him he could check email and play soccer games on it.
So I took the ipad home as you need a net connection to install stuff.

Why is this so difficult to understand.
Or perhaps you can tell me how you'd go about it.

as you've been told many times, you erase contents and settings and set
it up as a new ipad.


Which he didn't have he didn't have ANY network connection.

...and that is a completely different issue which he needs to solve for
himself, unless you are going to sponsor him in some way.

So after I took the ipad home and installed games and stuff he'd be intrested
in, I returned.

under your account, not his.

For a while he was happy to take the ipad to the library to
connect, the following week he said he can't play some game at home as it
needed a net connection, I said yep that's the 21st century for you.
I then lent him my O2 SIM.
He said it's a bit slow but at least he doesn't have to go to teh librabry.
Another week passed and he said he'd run out of data so couldn't play the
game or get on-line.
So I explained to him how this works and the options of using a SIM for
limited data or gettign a proper internet connection i.e NOT 3G.

there is nothing improper about a 3g connection and in some cases it's
faster than what people have at home (especially with lte).

So 3 weeks ago he got a 'proper' BT broadband service with wireless router.
he also decided to upgrade his PC sub 2GHz intel with 1GB RAM from the start
of this milenuim.
As he said he liked the ipad and the quality of the games, when he asked me
what to get as a new computer I suggested a mac mini.
he then phoned Dell to ask them to supply the equivalnet to a mac mini with
word installed.
So dell sold him an Inspiron 3000-Series Desktop with an i5.
So far he seems happy with it.

ok

Unless you give him your password which opens up your registered credit
card to potential abuse.

Which is the reason why I didn't as I don't want to go that route.


Needless to say you can't have it both ways,

Well Inmwas going to investigate the family option or whatever they
call it on ios8

Do that and he will have access to your wallet.

That wouldn't particaully worry me, I can trust my brother from that POV.
Perhaps others can't.
Do you trhink what Apple have done here is a serius security flaw where our
walltes will be emptied by our family members.
Perhaps that's why you need 'right to carry a gun' in the USA so you can
shoot family memebrs when they take things from your wallet.

the point is that you're not supposed to share accounts.

there is a way to do that with family sharing.

and your intent is
fraudulent.

No it isn't.
he hadn;t purchased a single app and what I'd purchased he didn;t even
want.
I'd already deleted them anyway.

...but he still got your iPad with your Apple ID, not his.

There is nothing illegal or wrong with that is there.

actually there is.

I am allowed to own multiple apple products and my purchased music to be on
them.

you are, but when you give an ipad to someone else, it's no longer
yours anymore.

His only use for the ipad was email and soccer games. Yes he went to
the local library for free wifi. He had loads of fotty games which I've
NO interest in but they were all in my itunes lbrary as I'd downloaded
them in my name so he could try them out.

How was he going to use it for email? An iCloud account, Gmail, Yahoo,
or some ISP? He is going to have to set that up.

He was using the same Yahoo account he has been using at the library for the
past 3 or so years AFAIK.
I had email before I had an apple ID and even before gmail came out.

so what?

He shouldn't have access to your iTunes library.
he hasn;t the itunes wasn;t synched to my library.

the apps are under your appleid.

He should have his
own, and he can download his own copies of whatever free games he
wants, but for that he will need his own Apple ID and some sort of
internet/network connection.

well done you're almost up to the point where I was a month or two ago.

you said he didn't create one.

So you have a 16GB ipad3 on ios6 and you need to create a new apple ID for it.
Hpw would you do that ?

you aren't paying *any* attention.

again, erase contents and settings and it will go thru the setup where
it asks to give an apple id or create a new one. alternately, create
one online and use it.

You are better off giving it to him wiped, and let him do
his own thing.

where is this option to WIPE the ipad.
Of course maybe you meaqnt earse setting and delete myself as a user
which is what I did. To delete myself as a user I had to enter my aplpe
ID AND password (not just the passcode)

Exactly!
Go to Settings-General, scroll to the bottom and select "Reset".
Erase All Content and Settings, then set up the iPad as if it were new
with a new owner. As to you brother having access to the
internet/network with either WiFi or cellular data, that is your
brother's problem, not yours.

Well done you're nearly up to the point I'm at.
All you got to do now is how I can 'wipe' the ipad......

you've been told how to wipe the ipad.

I am sure that you had to set up the new iPad using your Apple ID, or
you had to create a new Apple ID to get it up and running.

Yes I did but I didn;t have to wipe the ipad to do it.

however, all apps on it can no longer be updated because they're under
your apple id, not his.

that's why you need to erase it and start over.

I just got a new imac I didn;t need to wipe that either.
All teh apps and the vast majorioty of software was already installed
why would I choose to wipe the HD ? (well SSD in my case)

because they're not his apps. you've just given him pirated software.

When you buy a new mac do you wipe the disc as the first option ?

when you sell or give a mac to someone else, you do.

Safari, Mail, Camera, App Store, Apple Maps, iMessage, Calendar, Notes,
Facetime, etc. are part of the iOS default set. You can't "wipe" or
delete them even if you wanted to.

Yes I know that's why I wasn;t loking to wipe it Doh !

this isn't about built in apps. it's about 3rd party apps which much be
wiped, as they're yours, not his.

If he downloaded free apps he had to
have an Apple ID or access to an Apple ID.

I downloaded the apps for him as he didn't have an apple ID or a network
connection.

those are not his apps. they're your apps under your apple id. if you
give them to him, you're pirating.

the iTunes App store, or the
iOS App Store won't let him download and install free apps without that
Apple ID. Updates are a different issue.

Updates have the same issue. When one of his apps needed an update he emailed
me saying it needs my password.

THIS IS THE REASON WHY I WANT HIM TO HAVE HIS OWN APPLE ID.
why is this rocket science

it's not rocket science and you aren't paying any attention to what's
being said.

you erase the device of your apps and he will need to re-download the
apps under his apple id.

very simple.

What you are wiping are any apps you bought, or installed subsequent
to, or as a result of your ownership. You are also wiping any of your
data, personal or otherwise such as photos, which you might have
generated on that iPad.

I call that erasing or resetiing the user info.
When you buy a new or secondhand iPad you do NOT have to delete the core apps.

you can't delete the core apps.

you do, however, need to delete the third party apps.

I believe the users setting are sandboxed from the actual apps themselves.
The safari on yuor if probbaly exaclty the same as the safari on yours.

I quite often change users on mac computers.
I delete a user from a computer and then add another users.
when I do that I DO NOT erase the disc , I do not delete the browsers or any apps.

ipads do not have multiple users.

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

No I wanted to delete myself as the user NOT wipe the ipad.

there is no concept of users on an ipad. it's a single user device.

A single user is a user.

the *only* user.

you don't log out of your account and log into a new account. it's a
single user system, a bit like classic mac os.

you *must* wipe the ipad of third party apps since they're *yours* not
his. he then creates new apple id and downloads the apps he wants under
that apple id.

That was teh reason I wanted to dlete my account.

there is no account to delete. you erase the entire apps and data.

to give it to another person, you need remove *your* stuff so that the
new owner can load *their* stuff. that's done with either and erase
contents and settings a restore.

a restore was NOT a practical option via a 3G connection.

you aren't paying attention. you do *either* an erase contents and
settings (a couple of taps) *or* a restore via itunes.


here it is again:
I wanted to give one to my brother so he could set up his own ID.

Yep.

which is what i said.

But I said it first over a month ago.

you haven't said anything correct yet.

he couldn't create one, how can you create one on an ipad3 that already
has a
user account ?

erase contents and settings or do a restore via itunes,

how can I do it via itunes on a PC running XP with no internet conenction ?

what computer has no internet connection these days? and you said he
had an internet connection anyway.

and he didn;t have a computer connected to the web his PC was running
XP.

so what?

How do you restore without a backup to restore from ?

restore means load a stock firmware. once that is complete,

How does that happen ?
How do you restore ? to restore you ned access to that set of files don;t you
?

the firmware is downloaded and installed, which is done automatically
by clicking the restore button in itunes.

however, it's easier to do an erase contents & settings.

Wasn't expecting this minor hassle so maybe it changed in 8.0 or
8.1

it hasn't changed.

Don't believe you.

ask apple if you don't believe me.

yes it's on the apple site.

it is, and it agrees with what i said.

Of course so there's been no changes to the way ios6 and ios8 work.
I wonder if apple know.
I'm sure under 7 you could now install ios updates worelessly previously you couldn't.

over the air updates have been around since ios 5, and updating the os
isn't the issue anyway.

On 2014-11-28 13:47:50 +0000, Whisky-dave said:

Never mind. I am not going to beat myself in the head over your luddite
brother.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2014-11-28 17:00:00 +0000, Whisky-dave said:

On Friday, 28 November 2014 15:23:50 UTC, nospam wrote:

Le Snip

you are, but when you give an ipad to someone else, it's no longer
yours anymore.

Where is that stated ?
The ipad was STILL in my name with my account details on it, still registar
ed with Apple as my property.

So, it comes down to this, you haven't actually given him your iPad,
you might at best say you are letting him borrow it.

Until he sets it up as a new iPad, with his own Apple ID, and it is
cleaned of any apps (beyond the iOS core apps) you bought and/or
installed. it remains YOUR iPad, your brother just has the use of it
until he figures out how to get you off his back.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2014-11-28 17:05:00 +0000, Whisky-dave said:

On Friday, 28 November 2014 16:54:22 UTC, Savageduck wrote:
On 2014-11-28 13:47:50 +0000, Whisky-dave said:

Never mind. I am not going to beat myself in the head over your luddite
brother.

Never thought you'd realise that.

Why do you think I took the method I did.

There was a method in there somewhere?

I work with kids/students/young-adults I know how to get these things
in to their skulls in a way that others can't. I work by example.

Yopu show them what can be done then take that facility away and say
you too can do this is you do A, B C ....
It's not that differnt from photography you can lend a person a lens
or camera and if they like it you take it back and say you too can have
one of these by following A B C....

But then again I obviuoly know more about teaching things then you do,
or perhaps I just get more practice and succsess.

....er it seems the British education system is in worse shape than we
could possibly imagine.


--
Regards,

Savageduck