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#11
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32 GB SD card is coming!
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 07:56:55 -0800, aniramca wrote:
Toshiba announced it in August 2007 last year and they indicated that it will be ready for January 2008. Panasonic has just introduced it recently for market use in the latest CES convention. It heard that it costs about $700 in Japan. Considering that currently 1gb and 2gb cards are available for $10/gb or less, I'd have expected it to be around $300. Some questions to ponder: 1. I wonder about a physical limit in storage for the current size of an SD card. How far do you thing that they can squeeze in the amount of memory in that size of card? Could it become a 50, 100, 200 GB SD card in the future. Why do they multiply in the order of 1,2,4,8,16,32, etc. Why not in nice number like 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 GB, etc (metric)? What's unnice about powers of two? 2. On the back of my regular SD card, there are approx. 9 contact areas which connect into the terminal. Are all those 9 contacts currently utilized for a typical usage in a digital camera? Or perhaps that they only use 2-3 contacts and the others are just reserves for future use? I noticed similar thing for a telephone jack. There are those phone cables with only 2 connection wires inside (cheaper), and there are with more wires (which is perhaps capable for faster connection or other accessories in a phone - just guessing). Is there a technical discussion in the internet about these contacts and/or the details inside an SD card? 3. They said about 32GB SD card. What about the Compact Flash card? What is the largest size available currently for CF? Is CF, xD and Sony stick will eventually be abandoned in favour of SD cards? (just like the wars of betamax vs VHS, and recently between blue ray and HD DVD). I believe that SD card was pioneered by Toshiba. 4. For an average usage in a digital camera, how useful is a 32 GB card? Would you prefer to carry 4x8 GB SD card or one 32GB card? Is an 8GB card more than enough for a digital camera? Is the increase of GB in storage will be matched with higher and higher MP cameras? Will the future commercial digital cameras in the market ever reach, say 32 or 64 MP cameras? I assume current RAW files are now about the size of 25MB each. Do professional cameras produce larger size RAW files? I know that there are 30 MP or perhaps even more MP in current professional cameras ( 6x4.5 of 6x7 size cameras). 5. Is the new 32 GB SD card compatible for all current digital cameras, regardless of features and prices? It was mentioned something about High density SDHC usage, and I wonder if my cheap $100 camera, or my 4 years old camera (3MP) can handle it. Or is this for high end cost, latest model, and high MP cameras' usage only? Thanks for the input and discussion If your cheap $100 camera is limited to FAT16, then it won't handle anything over 2gb (though the potential is there for 4gb). |
#12
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32 GB SD card is coming!
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:02:40 GMT, Steve wrote:
With SD using serial data transfer, it may be a point in favor of CF cards, which should then have the potential to have a much greater data transfer rate. For me though, SD is fast enough. But Serial data transfer has much higher potential data rates. I can get into the technical reasons why if you want. But if you feel like doing your own research, just look up why SATA is faster than PATA. Though it might be interesting, it's not worth the effort right now, for reasons mentioned here not too long ago. I assume it has something to do with the serial stream zipping along as fast as possible (with possibly a clock signal), vs. parallel data having to settle and remain stable long enough to be sampled. Do you know whether SD (or SDHC) serial rates are high enough to exceed CF data rates? From what I've read of tests performed within the last year or so, Sandisk Extreme IV CF cards were the fastest, although these had to use compatible Sandisk readers to achieve the fastest rates. |
#13
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32 GB SD card is coming!
ray wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 07:56:55 -0800, aniramca wrote: Toshiba announced it in August 2007 last year and they indicated that it will be ready for January 2008. Panasonic has just introduced it recently for market use in the latest CES convention. It heard that it costs about $700 in Japan. Considering that currently 1gb and 2gb cards are available for $10/gb or less, I'd have expected it to be around $300. It doesn't work that way. Circuit City, a large electronic chain store in the USA sells 1gb Sandisk SD for $15 and 2gb for $20. OTOH, Fry's, another big chain store had a 500gig hard drive on sale for $99. Two 500 gig drives equal a terabyte drive, but those sell for around $400. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...MP =KNC-GOOGL Transcend 1GB Secure Digital Card = $14.99 I see some at Amazon.com $10 Transcend 2GB Secure Digital Card = $19.99 Transcend 4GB Secure Digital Card = $29.99 Here you are paying $5 for every gig over 1 gig but $15 for the original 1 gig SD card. State of the art is never proportional to the established technology for instance 32gig SD or 1TB hard drive. Older technology gets more expensive because of less demand. A new 40gig hard drive costs nearly the same as the currently popular 160gig. Same way with older style memory compared to the newer faster memory. |
#14
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32 GB SD card is coming!
"Stephen Harris" wrote in message
... ray wrote: On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 07:56:55 -0800, aniramca wrote: Toshiba announced it in August 2007 last year and they indicated that it will be ready for January 2008. Panasonic has just introduced it recently for market use in the latest CES convention. It heard that it costs about $700 in Japan. Considering that currently 1gb and 2gb cards are available for $10/gb or less, I'd have expected it to be around $300. It doesn't work that way. Circuit City, a large electronic chain store in the USA sells 1gb Sandisk SD for $15 and 2gb for $20. OTOH, Fry's, another big chain store had a 500gig hard drive on sale for $99. Two 500 gig drives equal a terabyte drive, but those sell for around $400. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...MP =KNC-GOOGL Transcend 1GB Secure Digital Card = $14.99 I see some at Amazon.com $10 Transcend 2GB Secure Digital Card = $19.99 Transcend 4GB Secure Digital Card = $29.99 Here you are paying $5 for every gig over 1 gig but $15 for the original 1 gig SD card. State of the art is never proportional to the established technology for instance 32gig SD or 1TB hard drive. Older technology gets more expensive because of less demand. A new 40gig hard drive costs nearly the same as the currently popular 160gig. Same way with older style memory compared to the newer faster memory. For once we can beat the US hands down. 1Gb Sandisk SD cards £6.99 (or a scratch under $14) in my local (UK) supermarket - not even a specialist. From a specialist (albeit in the Channel Islands where there is no tax) unbranded 1Gb at £3.29 or about $6.60, or Dane-Elec (which are Toshiba - and it is printed on the back) at £4.49 or about $9. -- Woody harrogate three at ntlworld dot com |
#15
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32 GB SD card is coming!
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 02:00:33 -0500, ASAAR wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:02:40 GMT, Steve wrote: With SD using serial data transfer, it may be a point in favor of CF cards, which should then have the potential to have a much greater data transfer rate. For me though, SD is fast enough. But Serial data transfer has much higher potential data rates. I can get into the technical reasons why if you want. But if you feel like doing your own research, just look up why SATA is faster than PATA. Though it might be interesting, it's not worth the effort right now, for reasons mentioned here not too long ago. I assume it has something to do with the serial stream zipping along as fast as possible (with possibly a clock signal), vs. parallel data having to settle and remain stable long enough to be sampled. Do you know Pretty much right. Signal paths for the data lines, switch times for the digital circuits, etc., all become very critical as parallel rates are pushed up. Circuit board layout is complicated to keep all the data lines the same length for the entire path from controller to controller. None of that is critical for serial. The only thing critical for serial is standard high frequency design practices. whether SD (or SDHC) serial rates are high enough to exceed CF data rates? From what I've read of tests performed within the last year or so, Sandisk Extreme IV CF cards were the fastest, although these had to use compatible Sandisk readers to achieve the fastest rates. For both current CF and SD real-world data transfer, the interface speed is not the limiting factor. CF+ 2.0 is 16MB/s, 3.0 is 66MB/s and CF+ 4.0 interface is 133MB/s. SD/MMC interface is a bit more complicated since it can operate as a 1 bit serial, or in 4 or 8 bit modes. In 1 bit serial, max rate for SD is 6.25MB/s, MMC+ is 6.5MB/s. SD in 4 bit mode is 25MB/s. MMC+ in 4 or 8 bit modes is 26MB/s or 52MB/s. The reason SD seems so much slower in 1 bit mode than CF is because SD uses a slow serial clock speed of 50MHz max, and a lot of hardware only supports 25MHz. SD could always bump up the clock rates if faster flash memory made the interface the choke point. They'll have to do that if they want to go much faster than the "133x" memory speeds that are becoming common today. CF is pretty close to it's practical limit at 133MB/s. But unlike current SD, that should be fast enough for a long time. Steve |
#16
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32 GB SD card is coming!
Jürgen Exner wrote: wrote: [SD cards] 1. Why do they multiply in the order of 1,2,4,8,16,32, etc. Why not in nice number like 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 GB, etc (metric)? Because the native language of the computers we have today is binary, not decimal. BTW: metric is something different. Hard drives come in non-binary sizes, and sometimes oddball ones at that. In fact, published capacity is in decimal megabytes, and users complain that their systems (which state binary megabytes) show less. My 40GB HD says it has a 34.9GB capacity. In my line of work, we've used custom non-binary memory sizes. However - there is an advantage to a binary memory size when it comes to maximizing the amount that can be squeezed in a typical rectangular die. |
#17
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32 GB SD card is coming!
y_p_w wrote:
Jürgen Exner wrote: wrote: [SD cards] 1. Why do they multiply in the order of 1,2,4,8,16,32, etc. Why not in nice number like 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 GB, etc (metric)? Because the native language of the computers we have today is binary, not decimal. Hard drives come in non-binary sizes, and sometimes oddball ones at that. Apples and oranges. There is quite some difference between the internal workings of a HD and a memory chip. For a harddrive the numbers of heads, tracks, sectors, and disks introduce factors, that are determined by physical characteristics, not logical considerations. On a memory chip to supply 10x still requries 16x of items of whatever you are looking at. So why waste waste the remaining 6 items? In fact, published capacity is in decimal megabytes, and users complain that their systems (which state binary megabytes) show less. My 40GB HD says it has a 34.9GB capacity. Old news. jue |
#18
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32 GB SD card is coming!
BTW only 6MB/s write speed sustained according to dpreview, which is
quite slow these days. -- Alfred Molon ------------------------------ Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/ http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site |
#19
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32 GB SD card is coming!
"sonsdad" wrote in message
news Hi Without doubt the smaller cards are safer, consider the pain if a 32gb card goes down after shooting a wedding It's not the capacity of the card in bytes that matters, it's the number of photos on the card. As the photo files get larger the capacity has to increase. Imagine if we still had 8MB cards? |
#20
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32 GB SD card is coming!
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:27:42 GMT, Steve wrote:
For both current CF and SD real-world data transfer, the interface speed is not the limiting factor . . . Thanks for the info! |
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