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Priming new lithium ion battery for full capacity



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 28th 09, 03:28 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eddie[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Priming new lithium ion battery for full capacity

Does a new lithium ion battery need a few charge and discharge cycles
to be able to hold and delivery its full capacity?

ISTR a new lithium ion needed a few cycles but when I checked on how
much percentange improvement the extra cycles provided, I couldn't
find any clear recommendation.
  #2  
Old September 28th 09, 04:45 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Anecdotal Evidence
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Posts: 2
Default Priming new lithium ion battery for full capacity

On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:28:47 +0100, Eddie wrote:

Does a new lithium ion battery need a few charge and discharge cycles
to be able to hold and delivery its full capacity?

ISTR a new lithium ion needed a few cycles but when I checked on how
much percentange improvement the extra cycles provided, I couldn't
find any clear recommendation.


Yes, new Li-Ion batteries can use a few full charge and discharge cycles
before they start to show their true capacity. I wouldn't go out of my way
and do this intentionally in some charger that offers a discharge cycle
because the gain doesn't seem to be all that great and you'd only end-up
losing out on a few charge cycles from the battery's life. I don't know the
exact percentage gained, and I'm sure it's dependent on each manufacturer,
but rough guess is maybe 10-20% more after a few cycles. It is apparent
they last longer (hold more charge) after a few uses. Just use them from
full to empty in your camera a few times and by the 3rd or 4th time they're
doing the best they can.

  #3  
Old September 28th 09, 08:17 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Priming new lithium ion battery for full capacity

In article , John Navas
wrote:

Does a new lithium ion battery need a few charge and discharge cycles
to be able to hold and delivery its full capacity?


Yes.


no.

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm

Lithium-ion is a very clean system and does not need priming as
nickel-based batteries do. The 1st charge is no different to the 5th
or the 50th charge. Stickers instructing to charge the battery for 8
hours or more for the first time may be a leftover from the nickel
battery days.
....

Preparing new lithium-ion for use

Unlike nickel and lead-based batteries, a new lithium-ion pack does
not need cycling through charging and discharging. Priming will make
little difference because the maximum capacity of lithium-ion is
available right from the beginning. Neither does a full discharge
improve the capacity of a faded pack. However, a full
discharge/charge will reset the digital circuit of a 'smart' battery
to improve the state-of-charge estimation.
  #4  
Old September 28th 09, 08:30 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 259
Default Priming new lithium ion battery for full capacity

On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:28:47 +0100, Eddie wrote:

Does a new lithium ion battery need a few charge and discharge cycles
to be able to hold and delivery its full capacity?

ISTR a new lithium ion needed a few cycles but when I checked on how
much percentange improvement the extra cycles provided, I couldn't
find any clear recommendation.


A Li-ion battery has a limited number of full charge cycles.
No need to waste them. You'll get about 600 of them.
  #5  
Old September 28th 09, 09:30 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Pete D
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,613
Default Priming new lithium ion battery for full capacity


"Anecdotal Evidence" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:28:47 +0100, Eddie wrote:

Does a new lithium ion battery need a few charge and discharge cycles
to be able to hold and delivery its full capacity?

ISTR a new lithium ion needed a few cycles but when I checked on how
much percentange improvement the extra cycles provided, I couldn't
find any clear recommendation.


Yes, new Li-Ion batteries can use a few full charge and discharge cycles
before they start to show their true capacity. I wouldn't go out of my way
and do this intentionally in some charger that offers a discharge cycle
because the gain doesn't seem to be all that great and you'd only end-up
losing out on a few charge cycles from the battery's life. I don't know
the
exact percentage gained, and I'm sure it's dependent on each manufacturer,
but rough guess is maybe 10-20% more after a few cycles. It is apparent
they last longer (hold more charge) after a few uses. Just use them from
full to empty in your camera a few times and by the 3rd or 4th time
they're
doing the best they can.


Evidence, links? Just made this up didn't you?


  #6  
Old September 29th 09, 02:29 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Anecdotal Evidence
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Priming new lithium ion battery for full capacity

On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 06:30:52 +1000, "Pete D" wrote:


"Anecdotal Evidence" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:28:47 +0100, Eddie wrote:

Does a new lithium ion battery need a few charge and discharge cycles
to be able to hold and delivery its full capacity?

ISTR a new lithium ion needed a few cycles but when I checked on how
much percentange improvement the extra cycles provided, I couldn't
find any clear recommendation.


Yes, new Li-Ion batteries can use a few full charge and discharge cycles
before they start to show their true capacity. I wouldn't go out of my way
and do this intentionally in some charger that offers a discharge cycle
because the gain doesn't seem to be all that great and you'd only end-up
losing out on a few charge cycles from the battery's life. I don't know
the
exact percentage gained, and I'm sure it's dependent on each manufacturer,
but rough guess is maybe 10-20% more after a few cycles. It is apparent
they last longer (hold more charge) after a few uses. Just use them from
full to empty in your camera a few times and by the 3rd or 4th time
they're
doing the best they can.


Evidence, links? Just made this up didn't you?


What part of the phrase "Anecdotal Evidence" do you fail to comprehend? You
****ingly useless major troll and moron.

This is the same way that I found out that defragging flash-media will
improve its write performance when it becomes sluggish, BY TESTING IT
MYSELF. Contrary to all the popularized BS posted all over the net by fool
trolls like you who only know how to parrot others' inexperienced nonsense.
These newsgroups are crawling to the rafters with fools like that, just
like you.

Go ahead, use Google again to read the most popular links, made popular by
fools who are more than happy to accept the most popular dumbed-down
explanations. All because it sounds good and everyone else wants to believe
it too so they can feel accepted by all their other fellow fools. Their
need to feel as if they belong to the majority overwhelms their ability to
think, act, and reason for themselves. Whereas more intelligent people will
read those pages further down in the Google search that might have valid
information created by those who never take the first and most popular
answer as the correct one, or would rather test things independently of all
others.

Google = Easily parroted misconceptions authored by laymen exponentially
multiplied and popularized by lazy, inexperienced, insecure, and ignorant
minds.

Wiki pages being even worse than that.

"Facts" have been reduced to a an uneducated blind-following-sheep's
popularity contest.

You are living proof.
  #7  
Old September 29th 09, 05:58 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Priming new lithium ion battery for full capacity

In article , John Navas
wrote:

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm


A small battery charger company.


so what?

Lithium-ion is a very clean system and does not need priming as
nickel-based batteries do. The 1st charge is no different to the 5th
or the 50th charge. Stickers instructing to charge the battery for 8
hours or more for the first time may be a leftover from the nickel
battery days.


In other words, manufacturers do not agree with the opinion of Isidor
Buchmann.


that's just one person's opinion, but let's see what he says, shall we?

http://www.buchmann.ca/chap2-page6.asp

There is no memory and no scheduled cycling is required to prolong
the battery¹s life.

you really ought to read the stuff you cite.

moving on,

http://www.buchmann.ca/Chap15-page3.asp

The manufacturer¹s recommended priming procedure should be followed.
...
Li-ion cells need less priming than the nickel-based equivalent.
Manufacturers of Li-ion cells insist that priming is not a
requirement. The priming function on the Li-ion may be used to verify
that the battery is fully functional and produces the capacity
required.

he says that nickel based batteries only need a 24 hour trickle charge
(same page), and that lithium ion batteries don't even need that.

http://www.buchmann.ca/article23-page1.asp

Li-ion prefers a partial rather than a full discharge. Avoid
depleting the battery fully too frequently. Instead, charge more
often or use a larger battery.

a full discharge is not the best thing to do, which is what a cycle
charge is.

Preparing new lithium-ion for use

Unlike nickel and lead-based batteries, a new lithium-ion pack does
not need cycling through charging and discharging. Priming will make
little difference because the maximum capacity of lithium-ion is
available right from the beginning. Neither does a full discharge
improve the capacity of a faded pack. However, a full
discharge/charge will reset the digital circuit of a 'smart' battery
to improve the state-of-charge estimation.


Here's what Apple has to say http://www.apple.com/batteries/:

Lithium-ion polymer batteries need to be used for maximum
performance. If you don’t use your device often, be sure to complete
a charge cycle at least once a month. ...

I'd say Apple is a more credible source, and that it's a good bet a new
battery has been unused for much more than a month. Other manufacturers
agree with Apple.


apple has a vested interest in selling more batteries.

it also says "if you don't use your device often...", which means if
you *do* use the device often (i.e., most people), that clause would
not apply, so you would not need to complete a charge cycle every
month. someone who doesn't use a device often is not likely to be
concerned with battery life.

it also contradicts your cited reference above: "no scheduled cycling
is required to prolong the battery¹s life."

most importantly, it says absolutely *nothing* about priming a new
battery with several charge cycles immediately after purchasing it.
  #8  
Old September 29th 09, 07:13 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Kevin McMurtrie[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Priming new lithium ion battery for full capacity

In article ,
Eddie wrote:

Does a new lithium ion battery need a few charge and discharge cycles
to be able to hold and delivery its full capacity?

ISTR a new lithium ion needed a few cycles but when I checked on how
much percentange improvement the extra cycles provided, I couldn't
find any clear recommendation.


It's going to vary by manufacturing technique and rating technique.
Ratings may understate or overstate capacity depending on whether the
manufacturer wants to emphasize density or endurance. Only the
manufacture's performance graphs will tell you what you want to know.

--
I will not see your reply if you use Google.
  #9  
Old September 29th 09, 07:55 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Pete D
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,613
Default Priming new lithium ion battery for full capacity


"Anecdotal Evidence" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 06:30:52 +1000, "Pete D" wrote:


"Anecdotal Evidence" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:28:47 +0100, Eddie wrote:

Does a new lithium ion battery need a few charge and discharge cycles
to be able to hold and delivery its full capacity?

ISTR a new lithium ion needed a few cycles but when I checked on how
much percentange improvement the extra cycles provided, I couldn't
find any clear recommendation.

Yes, new Li-Ion batteries can use a few full charge and discharge cycles
before they start to show their true capacity. I wouldn't go out of my
way
and do this intentionally in some charger that offers a discharge cycle
because the gain doesn't seem to be all that great and you'd only end-up
losing out on a few charge cycles from the battery's life. I don't know
the
exact percentage gained, and I'm sure it's dependent on each
manufacturer,
but rough guess is maybe 10-20% more after a few cycles. It is apparent
they last longer (hold more charge) after a few uses. Just use them from
full to empty in your camera a few times and by the 3rd or 4th time
they're
doing the best they can.


Evidence, links? Just made this up didn't you?


What part of the phrase "Anecdotal Evidence" do you fail to comprehend?
You
****ingly useless major troll and moron.

This is the same way that I found out that defragging flash-media will
improve its write performance when it becomes sluggish, BY TESTING IT
MYSELF. Contrary to all the popularized BS posted all over the net by fool
trolls like you who only know how to parrot others' inexperienced
nonsense.
These newsgroups are crawling to the rafters with fools like that, just
like you.

Go ahead, use Google again to read the most popular links, made popular by
fools who are more than happy to accept the most popular dumbed-down
explanations. All because it sounds good and everyone else wants to
believe
it too so they can feel accepted by all their other fellow fools. Their
need to feel as if they belong to the majority overwhelms their ability to
think, act, and reason for themselves. Whereas more intelligent people
will
read those pages further down in the Google search that might have valid
information created by those who never take the first and most popular
answer as the correct one, or would rather test things independently of
all
others.

Google = Easily parroted misconceptions authored by laymen exponentially
multiplied and popularized by lazy, inexperienced, insecure, and ignorant
minds.

Wiki pages being even worse than that.

"Facts" have been reduced to a an uneducated blind-following-sheep's
popularity contest.

You are living proof.


LOL, and LOL again....


 




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