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Focus problems on SP570UZ at full 20x zoom?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 8th 08, 08:03 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
DudeBoyz
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Posts: 38
Default Focus problems on SP570UZ at full 20x zoom?

I'm having some issues when I try to use the camera at the full
20x zoom provided. They primarily seem to be related to
auto-focusing. I'm not sure if the shots are coming out blurry
when zoomed all the way in at 20x because of the Image
Stabilization, the AF Illuminator, the flash or what, and before
I break down and start doing some hardcore testing on a tripod
with the timer delayed shots (unlike the C5050 there is not a
remote that I can use to cause a shot to be taken without
touching the camera and causing some moderate level of movement),
I wanted to ask here to see if others have noticed the same
problem.

I think this happens even if it "clicks-in" and registers as a
focus lock, but it was only a single outing in the Botanical
Gardens in my area and I can't remember what shots I "braced"
with and which ones I simply held it in my hands as I stood with
nothing to lean against.

In almost all other situations (when I'm not max zoomed but
zoomed all the way out or most of the way in) it seems to work
without issue and shots are well focused.


If you do have some knowledge / experience with something like
this on the SP570UZ and are able to share some of that here, I
would appreciate it.

Thanks,

DB


  #2  
Old September 8th 08, 10:04 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 13,611
Default Focus problems on SP570UZ at full 20x zoom?

On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 12:03:51 -0700, "DudeBoyz"
wrote:

I'm having some issues when I try to use the camera at the full
20x zoom provided. They primarily seem to be related to
auto-focusing. I'm not sure if the shots are coming out blurry
when zoomed all the way in at 20x because of the Image
Stabilization, the AF Illuminator, the flash or what, and before
I break down and start doing some hardcore testing on a tripod
with the timer delayed shots (unlike the C5050 there is not a
remote that I can use to cause a shot to be taken without
touching the camera and causing some moderate level of movement),
I wanted to ask here to see if others have noticed the same
problem.


You could set it up on a tripod and use the timer to take the
photograph.

I think this happens even if it "clicks-in" and registers as a
focus lock, but it was only a single outing in the Botanical
Gardens in my area and I can't remember what shots I "braced"
with and which ones I simply held it in my hands as I stood with
nothing to lean against.

In almost all other situations (when I'm not max zoomed but
zoomed all the way out or most of the way in) it seems to work
without issue and shots are well focused.


If you do have some knowledge / experience with something like
this on the SP570UZ and are able to share some of that here, I
would appreciate it.

Thanks,

DB




Eric Stevens
  #3  
Old September 8th 08, 11:36 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Mark Thomas
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 835
Default Focus problems on SP570UZ at full 20x zoom?

DudeBoyz wrote:
I'm having some issues when I try to use the camera at the full
20x zoom provided. They primarily seem to be related to
auto-focusing. I'm not sure if the shots are coming out blurry
when zoomed all the way in at 20x because of the Image
Stabilization, the AF Illuminator, the flash or what


First up, almost every 'superzoom' has a compromised long end - the lens
won't be as sharp as at its 'sweet spot/s' and will probably have
reduced contrast. Are you viewing at 100%? Your expectations may be
too high.

Second, IS only gives you a bit of additional hand-holding ability. The
old rule of using a shutter speed of about 1 over the focal length (35mm
equiv) may only be helped by a stop or two. Check your exif - if you
are shooting at say 500mm with IS on, your shutter speed still needs to
be up around 1/250, imo, or you may encounter camera shake.

Motion blur/camera shake *looks* different to out of focus - why not
post a small crop (at 100% view) of the images and let us take a peek at
the problem?

Third - because your lens operates at a smaller aperture at the long end
the AF will be less reliable, especially in low light. And your AF
illuminator and flash will have a limited range (check manual).

  #4  
Old September 9th 08, 01:14 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
DudeBoyz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 38
Default Focus problems on SP570UZ at full 20x zoom?

First up, almost every 'superzoom' has a compromised long end
- the lens won't be as sharp as at its 'sweet spot/s' and will
probably have reduced contrast. Are you viewing at 100%? Your
expectations may be too high.

Second, IS only gives you a bit of additional hand-holding
ability. The old rule of using a shutter speed of about 1
over the focal length (35mm equiv) may only be helped by a
stop or two. Check your exif - if you are shooting at say
500mm with IS on, your shutter speed still needs to be up
around 1/250, imo, or you may encounter camera shake.
Motion blur/camera shake *looks* different to out of focus -
why not post a small crop (at 100% view) of the images and let
us take a peek at the problem?

Third - because your lens operates at a smaller aperture at
the long end the AF will be less reliable, especially in low
light. And your AF illuminator and flash will have a limited
range (check manual).


Thank you for the well thought out reply. I appreciate the tips.

In most cases, zooming in all the way to 20x just isn't necessary
for me, but I was trying to "torture test" the thing to find the
limitations.

Is it possible that changing the metering type might aid in
preventing the problem? I have left it at the default ESP, but
there are two other modes. The "dot" mode means that the AF
target mark area is metered, while the "dot-in-circle" mode
meters a wider area.

Again, thanks much,

DB
The AF target mark area is metered.


  #5  
Old September 9th 08, 12:03 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Mark Thomas
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 835
Default Focus problems on SP570UZ at full 20x zoom?

DudeBoyz wrote:
Thank you for the well thought out reply. I appreciate the tips.


Thanks for the appreciation!

In most cases, zooming in all the way to 20x just isn't necessary
for me, but I was trying to "torture test" the thing to find the
limitations.


Better to find out about what your camera can do *before* you actually
need it, so keep it up!


Is it possible that changing the metering type might aid in
preventing the problem?


No. I can't see any way that changing your metering could help the AF
or lens sharpness! Tripod, yes. Lots of light, yes. Slow, smooth
half-press, yes. Backing off from the full 500mm focal length, yes... (O:

I have left it at the default ESP, but
there are two other modes. The "dot" mode means that the AF
target mark area is metered, while the "dot-in-circle" mode
meters a wider area.


(This may also help a little with your other question...) I had an
older model Olympus (C8080 - great camera!), and the ESP exposure thingy
worked well for most general purpose metering - I can't claim to be an
expert, but I got the impression it was a little like Nikon's matrix
metering (which is a good thing..). The dot (spot-metering) mode is
useful where you might have a background that will throw off the
exposure, while dot-in-circle (centre-weighted-average) is the 'common'
sort of metering (not as good as ESP, I found).

But, the *iESP* thing - which is for AF only - is a very different thing
and I hated it! Maybe they have improved it, but I found it made some
very strange focus decisions (seemingly to prefer the background over
almost anything else!) and I quickly changed over to the Spot focus
method, mostly using the old-fashioned-but-tried-and-true half-press method.

hth

mt
  #6  
Old September 9th 08, 06:32 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
DudeBoyz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 38
Default Focus problems on SP570UZ at full 20x zoom?

Thank you again for an execellent reply. I'll be saving this one
in my "Keep These" folder in Outlook Express.

Happy Snappin!

DudeBoyz wrote:
Thank you for the well thought out reply. I appreciate the
tips.


Thanks for the appreciation!

In most cases, zooming in all the way to 20x just isn't
necessary for me, but I was trying to "torture test" the
thing to find the limitations.


Better to find out about what your camera can do *before* you
actually need it, so keep it up!


Is it possible that changing the metering type might aid in
preventing the problem?


No. I can't see any way that changing your metering could
help the AF or lens sharpness! Tripod, yes. Lots of light,
yes. Slow,
smooth half-press, yes. Backing off from the full 500mm
focal length, yes... (O:
I have left it at the default ESP, but
there are two other modes. The "dot" mode means that the AF
target mark area is metered, while the "dot-in-circle" mode
meters a wider area.


(This may also help a little with your other question...) I
had an older model Olympus (C8080 - great camera!), and the ESP
exposure thingy worked well for most general purpose metering
- I can't claim to be an expert, but I got the impression it
was a little like Nikon's matrix metering (which is a good
thing..). The dot (spot-metering) mode is useful where you
might have a background that will throw off
the exposure, while dot-in-circle (centre-weighted-average) is
the
'common' sort of metering (not as good as ESP, I found).

But, the *iESP* thing - which is for AF only - is a very
different thing and I hated it! Maybe they have improved it,
but I found it made some very strange focus decisions
(seemingly to prefer the
background over almost anything else!) and I quickly changed
over to the Spot focus method, mostly using the
old-fashioned-but-tried-and-true
half-press method.
hth

mt



  #7  
Old September 9th 08, 08:11 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
stevefranklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Image Stabilization - The Good and Bad (was Focus problems on SP570UZ at full 20x zoom?)

On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 12:03:51 -0700, "DudeBoyz" wrote:

I'm having some issues when I try to use the camera at the full
20x zoom provided. They primarily seem to be related to
auto-focusing. I'm not sure if the shots are coming out blurry
when zoomed all the way in at 20x because of the Image
Stabilization, the AF Illuminator, the flash or what, and before
I break down and start doing some hardcore testing on a tripod
with the timer delayed shots (unlike the C5050 there is not a
remote that I can use to cause a shot to be taken without
touching the camera and causing some moderate level of movement),
I wanted to ask here to see if others have noticed the same
problem.

I think this happens even if it "clicks-in" and registers as a
focus lock, but it was only a single outing in the Botanical
Gardens in my area and I can't remember what shots I "braced"
with and which ones I simply held it in my hands as I stood with
nothing to lean against.

In almost all other situations (when I'm not max zoomed but
zoomed all the way out or most of the way in) it seems to work
without issue and shots are well focused.


If you do have some knowledge / experience with something like
this on the SP570UZ and are able to share some of that here, I
would appreciate it.

Thanks,

DB


Part, or all, of your answer may be found in this nice overview (below) on the
plusses and minuses of various IS modes in today's digital cameras. Your
statement about the AF Illuminator and flash is a clue that you're taking shots
under less than ideal situations, which may be using longer shutter speeds. This
can result in blurry images when you are using an IS equipped camera in
Continuous IS mode, especially with the huge zoom range available. No
photographer in their right mind would even think about hand-holding a lens over
150mm (35mm eq. f.l.) just two decades ago. Image stabilization in many cameras
now makes people think they can be a $1000 tripod under all lighting
circumstances and all zoom focal-lengths. Laws of the universe will still
win-out over what you think you can and can't do.


======================================

IS Modes: Advantages vs. Disadvantages


Off:

Advantages -- Prevents accidental blurring caused by the IS mechanism when the
camera is mounted on tripod. Many models put the IS to sleep after 2 seconds of
no motion so this may or may not be necessary. No extra power used. Excellent
for learning how to improve your own hand-held skills to prevent camera shake.
There's less chance for the angled IS optical elements to introduce linear
chromatic aberration. Optical IS works by shifting the angle of planes of flat
glass, acting as a prism if angled greatly. You may experience a few pixels of
color shift at the edges of your subject with IS turned on and it is trying to
compensate for a lot of camera shake. Most often seen as green and magenta
fringes on opposite sides of your image. (Green fringes one side of the subjects
in your shot, magenta at the other side of your shot. Like looking at a light at
night through a thick pane of glass from an angle, same principle.) This happens
often with IS turned on especially for long-zoom shots because it has to
compensate for much more motion and the optical elements will be angled more. If
you happen to capture the shot at the extreme of that shake-compensation it will
be more apparent--more angle = more prism effect. Warning: This is going to
cause a hysteria of pixel-peeper frenzy now. 100% accurate framing. No need to
worry if you have the IS mode set on the proper adapter lens setting if you are
using add-on lenses.

Disadvantages -- Well, no IS!


Shoot Only Mode:

Advantages -- Much better IS compensation because you can see how much you are
shaking the camera. If you can dampen the camera-shake with your own muscles the
camera can easily compensate for any that's left over. Works exceptionally well
for long-zoom and low-light conditions where you have to manually dampen as much
motion as possible so the camera can compensate for any motion left-over with
long shutter speeds and magnified motion in long-zoom situations. Works best
under most shooting conditions. Lower battery drain than Continuous mode. Good
for learning how to hold your camera steady for those long-zoom and low-light
shots with long shutter-speeds.

Disadvantages -- If you can't stabilize the image well enough with your own
hand-held techniques then the camera can't latch onto anything easily for
auto-focus. If using manual focus this isn't a concern. Not available in
movie-mode, but with obvious reason, so that's not a disadvantage really.
Framing may not be 100% accurate. At the time of the exposure and the IS kicks
in it will shift slightly to compensate for the actual camera shake. You may not
get exactly what you want but close to 95% or more of it.



Continuous Mode:

Advantages -- Makes it easy to frame your shot. Auto-focus is greatly speeded up
if the image is steady for the camera to have finer details to latch onto.
Greatly improves auto-focus speed for long-zoom and low-light shots. More
accurate framing during the actual exposure because the IS elements are already
in motion and will be using what you see for the actual exposure. It won't be
100% accurate framing during the actual exposure, but close.

Disadvantages -- If you can't see how much you are shaking the camera then you
may be using, or the camera might have chosen, shutter speeds where you are
shaking the camera more than the IS can compensate for it during the actual
exposure. Resulting in blurry pictures that look out of focus but were actually
caused by camera shake from too long of zoom being used or too slow of shutter
speeds. Slightly higher battery drain. Letting the camera always compensate for
your camera-shake will never teach you how to hold your own camera steady,
always resulting in low-light and long-zoom shots being blurry so you think it's
the camera's fault and limitations rather than your own.


Panning Mode:

Advantages -- Turning off horizontal IS compensation allows you to pan with the
a horizontally moving object naturally so the background will remained blurred
and the subject you are following will be sharp and clear. If not used it will
be hit and miss as the IS shuttles sideways trying to figure out when and what
to compensate for.

Disadvantages -- Only works on horizontally moving subjects or when panning
vertically falling subjects (i.e. diving birds, divers at a swim-meet, following
a hobby-rocket's ascent, etc.) when the camera is held in a portrait mode. I
just realized, I've never tested this. Does the camera's orientation-sensor also
switch the panning mode direction of compensation? Has anyone ever tested this?
If so, then ignore this bit. Not available in movie-mode in some cameras, which
could actually be a help.

 




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