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  #11  
Old May 27th 18, 03:55 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,161
Default Blue Angels

On 5/26/2018 6:13 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On May 26, 2018, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 5/26/2018 12:51 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On May 25, 2018, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 5/25/2018 8:54 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On May 25, 2018, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Fri, 25 May 2018 17:52:13 -0400, PeterN
wrote:

Wow! What flying they do.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wkofhwr2k4ynw1g/20180525_5692.jpg?dl=0

That's a great shot and great timing. I presume that fell out of a
burst of continuous high speed exposures.

Agreed, it is a well timed capture, and a continuous burst can help.

The image is conspicuously noisy. Is this a severe crop from a long
focal length lens?

I suspect that the noise is due to a combination of PeterN effects
starting with unnecessarily high ISO when ISO 400-800 with a reasonably fast
shutter speed, perhaps in the range of 1/500-1/2000 would have been good enough to
make the capture without noise being generated. Then there is always
Peter’s severe crop, and degrading IQ with heavy JPEG compression.

Look at the other images from the show that I posted.

BTW here is a biplane with a jet assist. The crop is far more severe.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6m1xpf1qt93az3h/20180525_5608.jpg?dl=0

That crop has some other issues, most noticible are CA artifacts in the sky,
mostly in the lower left, probably due to JPEG compression exacerbated by
the severe crop.


I did not bother to do any CA adjustments. Just thought that some might
be interested in the unusual plane.


Perhaps refering to the discoloration as CA was the wrong terminology, but
there is undoubtably a change in the hue in that part of the sky. As to the
cause I can now only speculate, is due to something in your PP workflow. As
to the aircraft in question, it is a modernized 1929 Waco Taperwing with an
added jet engine, and dubbed “The Screamin’ Sasquatch” to become an
airshow regular.

http://eaavintage.org/the-screamin-sasquatch/


What explanation do you have for the noise in the Blue Angels shot?


Don't know.


If you were using your D500 (the perfect camera for an airshow) you should
have clean, sharp captures, and plenty of leeway for cropping. So I would
have to guess that the noise is due to high JPEG compression.


Nope: The same image, the same compression. I applied a light dose of
Topaz DeNoise
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ihjp4m942cnyqjt/20180525_5692_denoise.jpg?dl=0


Even with that there isn’t much improvement with regard to noise, which is
a pity as the image is a good capture. Something isn’t right.


I suspect you are hung up on noise. As you know, I have consistently
been almost blind to noise. From my way of thinking the image and
composition comes first. Having said that, in this case I am bothered by
the noise, as it should not be there, at the ISO I used.
I went very heavy on the NR, and here is the result. It still may need
work in other areas. And I am still puzzled by the noise.
The link is the same, but the image heavily denoised, and detail brought
back.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ihjp4m942cnyqjt/20180525_5692_denoise.jpg?dl=0

--
PeterN
  #12  
Old May 27th 18, 04:50 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,487
Default Blue Angels

On May 26, 2018, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 5/26/2018 6:13 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On May 26, 2018, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 5/26/2018 12:51 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On May 25, 2018, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 5/25/2018 8:54 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On May 25, 2018, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Fri, 25 May 2018 17:52:13 -0400, PeterN
wrote:

Wow! What flying they do.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wkofhwr2k4ynw1g/20180525_5692.jpg?dl=0

That's a great shot and great timing. I presume that fell out of a
burst of continuous high speed exposures.

Agreed, it is a well timed capture, and a continuous burst can help.

The image is conspicuously noisy. Is this a severe crop from a long
focal length lens?

I suspect that the noise is due to a combination of PeterN effects
starting with unnecessarily high ISO when ISO 400-800 with a reasonably
fast shutter speed, perhaps in the range of 1/500-1/2000 would have been
good enough to make the capture without noise being generated. Then there is always
Peter’s severe crop, and degrading IQ with heavy JPEG compression.

Look at the other images from the show that I posted.

BTW here is a biplane with a jet assist. The crop is far more severe.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6m1xpf1qt93az3h/20180525_5608.jpg?dl=0

That crop has some other issues, most noticible are CA artifacts in the
sky, mostly in the lower left, probably due to JPEG compression exacerbated by
the severe crop.

I did not bother to do any CA adjustments. Just thought that some might
be interested in the unusual plane.


Perhaps refering to the discoloration as CA was the wrong terminology, but
there is undoubtably a change in the hue in that part of the sky. As to the
cause I can now only speculate, is due to something in your PP workflow. As
to the aircraft in question, it is a modernized 1929 Waco Taperwing with an
added jet engine, and dubbed “The Screamin’ Sasquatch” to become an
airshow regular.

http://eaavintage.org/the-screamin-sasquatch/


What explanation do you have for the noise in the Blue Angels shot?

Don't know.


If you were using your D500 (the perfect camera for an airshow) you should
have clean, sharp captures, and plenty of leeway for cropping. So I would
have to guess that the noise is due to high JPEG compression.

Nope: The same image, the same compression. I applied a light dose of Topaz DeNoise
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ihjp4m942cnyqjt/20180525_5692_denoise.jpg?dl=0


Even with that there isn’t much improvement with regard to noise, which is
a pity as the image is a good capture. Something isn’t right.


I suspect you are hung up on noise.


I am not hung up on noise.
I am not always successful. Sometimes the noise is due to something stupid I
have done with camera settings, sometimes it is due to bad choices I have
made in post.

I look for a clean, sharp image which I can taylor to my taste in post where
with some B&W film simulations I am happy to introduce software generated
grain using Silver Efex Pro, or Exposure X3.

I will comment on noise in images if it is obvious, and cannot be explained
away as a deliberate artistic device. Noise which is not consistant enough to
pass as grain sticks out like a sore thumb, and does nothing but detract from
all the good qualities of any image.

I have tried to keep to the “digital noise is not film grain” philosophy.

As you know, I have consistently been almost blind to noise.


I had noticed. ;-)

From my way of thinking the image and composition comes first.


Composition is always, or should always be a primary consideration. However,
unlike portraiture, studio work, and planned landscapes, with many wildlife,
action sports, motorsport and airshow aerial display shots solid composition
is not a given. So in those categories it is always best to have all the
other elements, focus, exposure, and other camera settings optimized.

Having said that, in this case I am bothered by
the noise, as it should not be there, at the ISO I used.


It is inexplicible, especially with the cameras you have available. I am only
assuming that you used the D500, and some of your good glass.

How many frames did you catch of that passing manouver? Perhaps there is a
better one in the sequence.

I went very heavy on the NR, and here is the result. It still may need
work in other areas. And I am still puzzled by the noise.
The link is the same, but the image heavily denoised, and detail brought
back.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ihjp4m942cnyqjt/20180525_5692_denoise.jpg?dl=0


I hate to say it, but now it looks as if the NR was over cooked leading to
loss of detail, and over smoothing in the F/A18s.

As another aside, I have never been a fan of the Topaz stuff.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

  #13  
Old May 27th 18, 08:53 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Blue Angels

On Sat, 26 May 2018 22:55:06 -0400, PeterN
wrote:

On 5/26/2018 6:13 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On May 26, 2018, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 5/26/2018 12:51 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On May 25, 2018, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 5/25/2018 8:54 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On May 25, 2018, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Fri, 25 May 2018 17:52:13 -0400, PeterN
wrote:

Wow! What flying they do.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wkofhwr2k4ynw1g/20180525_5692.jpg?dl=0

That's a great shot and great timing. I presume that fell out of a
burst of continuous high speed exposures.

Agreed, it is a well timed capture, and a continuous burst can help.

The image is conspicuously noisy. Is this a severe crop from a long
focal length lens?

I suspect that the noise is due to a combination of PeterN effects
starting with unnecessarily high ISO when ISO 400-800 with a reasonably fast
shutter speed, perhaps in the range of 1/500-1/2000 would have been good enough to
make the capture without noise being generated. Then there is always
Peter’s severe crop, and degrading IQ with heavy JPEG compression.

Look at the other images from the show that I posted.

BTW here is a biplane with a jet assist. The crop is far more severe.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6m1xpf1qt93az3h/20180525_5608.jpg?dl=0

That crop has some other issues, most noticible are CA artifacts in the sky,
mostly in the lower left, probably due to JPEG compression exacerbated by
the severe crop.

I did not bother to do any CA adjustments. Just thought that some might
be interested in the unusual plane.


Perhaps refering to the discoloration as CA was the wrong terminology, but
there is undoubtably a change in the hue in that part of the sky. As to the
cause I can now only speculate, is due to something in your PP workflow. As
to the aircraft in question, it is a modernized 1929 Waco Taperwing with an
added jet engine, and dubbed “The Screamin’ Sasquatch” to become an
airshow regular.

http://eaavintage.org/the-screamin-sasquatch/


What explanation do you have for the noise in the Blue Angels shot?

Don't know.


If you were using your D500 (the perfect camera for an airshow) you should
have clean, sharp captures, and plenty of leeway for cropping. So I would
have to guess that the noise is due to high JPEG compression.

Nope: The same image, the same compression. I applied a light dose of
Topaz DeNoise
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ihjp4m942cnyqjt/20180525_5692_denoise.jpg?dl=0


Even with that there isn’t much improvement with regard to noise, which is
a pity as the image is a good capture. Something isn’t right.


I suspect you are hung up on noise. As you know, I have consistently
been almost blind to noise. From my way of thinking the image and
composition comes first. Having said that, in this case I am bothered by
the noise, as it should not be there, at the ISO I used.
I went very heavy on the NR, and here is the result. It still may need
work in other areas. And I am still puzzled by the noise.
The link is the same, but the image heavily denoised, and detail brought
back.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ihjp4m942cnyqjt/20180525_5692_denoise.jpg?dl=0


THat's better. Now all you have to do is let some light back into the
shadows. :-)
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #14  
Old May 27th 18, 05:49 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,161
Default Blue Angels

On 5/26/2018 11:50 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On May 26, 2018, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 5/26/2018 6:13 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On May 26, 2018, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 5/26/2018 12:51 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On May 25, 2018, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

On 5/25/2018 8:54 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On May 25, 2018, Eric Stevens wrote
(in ):

On Fri, 25 May 2018 17:52:13 -0400, PeterN
wrote:

Wow! What flying they do.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wkofhwr2k4ynw1g/20180525_5692.jpg?dl=0

That's a great shot and great timing. I presume that fell out of a
burst of continuous high speed exposures.

Agreed, it is a well timed capture, and a continuous burst can help.

The image is conspicuously noisy. Is this a severe crop from a long
focal length lens?

I suspect that the noise is due to a combination of PeterN effects
starting with unnecessarily high ISO when ISO 400-800 with a reasonably
fast shutter speed, perhaps in the range of 1/500-1/2000 would have been
good enough to make the capture without noise being generated. Then there is always
Peter’s severe crop, and degrading IQ with heavy JPEG compression.

Look at the other images from the show that I posted.

BTW here is a biplane with a jet assist. The crop is far more severe.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6m1xpf1qt93az3h/20180525_5608.jpg?dl=0

That crop has some other issues, most noticible are CA artifacts in the
sky, mostly in the lower left, probably due to JPEG compression exacerbated by
the severe crop.

I did not bother to do any CA adjustments. Just thought that some might
be interested in the unusual plane.

Perhaps refering to the discoloration as CA was the wrong terminology, but
there is undoubtably a change in the hue in that part of the sky. As to the
cause I can now only speculate, is due to something in your PP workflow. As
to the aircraft in question, it is a modernized 1929 Waco Taperwing with an
added jet engine, and dubbed “The Screamin’ Sasquatch” to become an
airshow regular.

http://eaavintage.org/the-screamin-sasquatch/


What explanation do you have for the noise in the Blue Angels shot?

Don't know.


If you were using your D500 (the perfect camera for an airshow) you should
have clean, sharp captures, and plenty of leeway for cropping. So I would
have to guess that the noise is due to high JPEG compression.

Nope: The same image, the same compression. I applied a light dose of Topaz DeNoise
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ihjp4m942cnyqjt/20180525_5692_denoise.jpg?dl=0

Even with that there isn’t much improvement with regard to noise, which is
a pity as the image is a good capture. Something isn’t right.


I suspect you are hung up on noise.


I am not hung up on noise.
I am not always successful. Sometimes the noise is due to something stupid I
have done with camera settings, sometimes it is due to bad choices I have
made in post.

I look for a clean, sharp image which I can taylor to my taste in post where
with some B&W film simulations I am happy to introduce software generated
grain using Silver Efex Pro, or Exposure X3.

I will comment on noise in images if it is obvious, and cannot be explained
away as a deliberate artistic device. Noise which is not consistant enough to
pass as grain sticks out like a sore thumb, and does nothing but detract from
all the good qualities of any image.

I have tried to keep to the “digital noise is not film grain” philosophy.

As you know, I have consistently been almost blind to noise.


I had noticed. ;-)

From my way of thinking the image and composition comes first.


Composition is always, or should always be a primary consideration. However,
unlike portraiture, studio work, and planned landscapes, with many wildlife,
action sports, motorsport and airshow aerial display shots solid composition
is not a given. So in those categories it is always best to have all the
other elements, focus, exposure, and other camera settings optimized.

Having said that, in this case I am bothered by
the noise, as it should not be there, at the ISO I used.


It is inexplicible, especially with the cameras you have available. I am only
assuming that you used the D500, and some of your good glass.

How many frames did you catch of that passing manouver? Perhaps there is a
better one in the sequence.

I went very heavy on the NR, and here is the result. It still may need
work in other areas. And I am still puzzled by the noise.
The link is the same, but the image heavily denoised, and detail brought
back.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ihjp4m942cnyqjt/20180525_5692_denoise.jpg?dl=0


I hate to say it, but now it looks as if the NR was over cooked leading to
loss of detail, and over smoothing in the F/A18s.


i did that deliberately, as I stated when posted.



As another aside, I have never been a fan of the Topaz stuff.



--
PeterN
 




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