A printer suggestion for the OEM's

IntergalacticExpandingPanda wrote:
On Dec 14, 4:17 pm, Paul Furman wrote:
Wrap it into a 2-page pdf, if that can handle color space, etc. I don't
know if any photo inkjets can flip paper around like that though.

Tony
MS MVP Printing Image

Canons support auto-duplex on many of their models. ip4000 and higher
without a doubt, with some older models in the ip3xxx that did, but
current ones do not.

They make it a selling point that you can buy double sized paper, and
AFAIK their "EZ photo print" software will handle this. The downside
is one would ideally want pigmented ink for the text data. I've not
looked at duplex output from a hex viewer, but Canons are documented
oriented printers.

Some HPs had the option for duplex units.

This is a software problem. One would have to make photo print
software that will handle this, but there is a drawback to shoving
your photos twice through a printer. On my Epson I'd fear the pizza
wheels.

The heavy 300gpsm 'watercolor' paper I described in another reply worked
fine on both sides as long as the final print isn't fed through again
(print the text on the back first). Another reason to do adhesive labels
I guess...

--
Paul Furman
www.edgehill.net
www.baynatives.com

all google groups messages filtered due to spam

Although it is probably doable, it would be a bit tricky mechanically.
It could probably be done by lengthening the carriage and having the
reverse black only head on one edge of the carriage in an area not
available for printing of the other side.

Some papers really can't be printed on the reverse side because they are
coated with a plastic that doesn't absorb any ink, so it remains wet
nearly indefinitely.

If the paper is receptive to print on the back, bleed through could
still be a problem, although they could probably use a light "black"
(gray) ink.

Interesting idea. Like you suggested, best for higher end products.

The other approach might be a specialty paper which is treated for rear
printing and using another printing technology that doesn't involve the
complexity of inkjet heads. Something like the Lightscribe CDs and DVDs
using a light source of a heat source to write on a light/heat sensitive
surface on the back.


Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

Alan Browne wrote:
Paul Furman wrote:
Alan Browne wrote:

It would be very, very nice if photo printers would print data on the
back of photos with whatever info the photographer likes in plain B&W
at the same time that they print the photo on the otherside. eg:
Selected EXIF data, comments, copyright and so on.

I don't want to run the photo paper through a printer as I think the
photo side might get marred (pre or post photo print).

When I get lab prints they usually have data printed on the back
(date, tint/color offsets, frame number...)

Yeah that would be nice though some papers are only printable on one
side.

As photos. But the back would only be printed with some data.

You would need a whole separate printer on the bottom so I guess

This is pretty cheap these days. For a $100 printer, maybe too much.
For a $1400 printer (or even a $400 printer) it would be noise in the
price. Again, one color, simple text.

the practical workaround is to just print it on the margin & waste a
little paper. AutoCAD drafting software has various ways of inserting
a timestamp on the margin or title block which usually includes the
file name and path/location.

Kinda ruins presentation, however. The back of a photo is a place to
document the image as described.

If I'm organized, I'll hand write that on the back with a sharpie
water proof pen but I wonder if that ink can bleed on a stack of
prints or through the paper. I'm not usually that organized and when I
come back a year later it can take a while to figure out where the
image file is for a given print.

I wouldn't use a sharpie on a photo for the bleed reason. I could see
my way to applying a sticker or using a pencil, lightly.

It would be theoretically possible to automate the exif & path somehow
and print that on an adhesive label but still a hassle.

Yep. Hence the idea of a back printer...

If I were developing such a printer, I would consider using a thermal
ribbon head for the under-printing.

These heads don't require any maintenance as they don't clog, they are
very small heated dot matrix heads that use a bit of movement but mainly
heat to "type". They are quite small, only need to have contact with
the paper surface, can print to most surfaces because they transfer the
"ink" from the ribbon to the surface, in fact, some printing sticks well
to plastic coated papers. They are fast, but not high res usually, they
last a long time, are pretty quiet.

You would have to replace the ribbon now and again. The ribbon is used
up as characters are printed.

The other approach is heat sensitive paper surface and a thermal head
like older fax machines used, but that means special paper and it is
more vulnerable to fade or go dark with time.

Art

If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

OG wrote:
"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
Paul Furman wrote:
Alan Browne wrote:
It would be very, very nice if photo printers would print data on the
back of photos with whatever info the photographer likes in plain B&W at
the same time that they print the photo on the otherside. eg: Selected
EXIF data, comments, copyright and so on.

I don't want to run the photo paper through a printer as I think the
photo side might get marred (pre or post photo print).

When I get lab prints they usually have data printed on the back (date,
tint/color offsets, frame number...)
Yeah that would be nice though some papers are only printable on one
side.
As photos. But the back would only be printed with some data.


But IME, ink isn't absorbed onto the back of photo paper, so it either
'beads', or simply rubs off.

"Arthur Entlich" wrote in message
...
If I were developing such a printer, I would consider using a thermal
ribbon head for the under-printing.

These heads don't require any maintenance as they don't clog, they are
very small heated dot matrix heads that use a bit of movement but mainly
heat to "type". They are quite small, only need to have contact with the
paper surface, can print to most surfaces because they transfer the "ink"
from the ribbon to the surface, in fact, some printing sticks well to
plastic coated papers. They are fast, but not high res usually, they last
a long time, are pretty quiet.

You would have to replace the ribbon now and again. The ribbon is used up
as characters are printed.

The other approach is heat sensitive paper surface and a thermal head like
older fax machines used, but that means special paper and it is more
vulnerable to fade or go dark with time.

Art

If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

OG wrote:
"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
Paul Furman wrote:
Alan Browne wrote:
It would be very, very nice if photo printers would print data on the
back of photos with whatever info the photographer likes in plain B&W
at the same time that they print the photo on the otherside. eg:
Selected EXIF data, comments, copyright and so on.

I don't want to run the photo paper through a printer as I think the
photo side might get marred (pre or post photo print).

When I get lab prints they usually have data printed on the back
(date, tint/color offsets, frame number...)
Yeah that would be nice though some papers are only printable on one
side.
As photos. But the back would only be printed with some data.


But IME, ink isn't absorbed onto the back of photo paper, so it either
'beads', or simply rubs off.


Arthur, if will you insist on top-posting, I'd rather you didn't reply to my
posts.

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:36:30 +0000, OG wrote:

"Arthur Entlich" wrote in message
...
If I were developing such a printer, I would consider using a thermal
ribbon head for the under-printing.

These heads don't require any maintenance as they don't clog, they are
very small heated dot matrix heads that use a bit of movement but mainly
heat to "type". They are quite small, only need to have contact with the
paper surface, can print to most surfaces because they transfer the "ink"
from the ribbon to the surface, in fact, some printing sticks well to
plastic coated papers. They are fast, but not high res usually, they last
a long time, are pretty quiet.

You would have to replace the ribbon now and again. The ribbon is used up
as characters are printed.

The other approach is heat sensitive paper surface and a thermal head like
older fax machines used, but that means special paper and it is more
vulnerable to fade or go dark with time.

Art

If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

OG wrote:
"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
Paul Furman wrote:
Alan Browne wrote:
It would be very, very nice if photo printers would print data on the
back of photos with whatever info the photographer likes in plain B&W
at the same time that they print the photo on the otherside. eg:
Selected EXIF data, comments, copyright and so on.

I don't want to run the photo paper through a printer as I think the
photo side might get marred (pre or post photo print).

When I get lab prints they usually have data printed on the back
(date, tint/color offsets, frame number...)
Yeah that would be nice though some papers are only printable on one
side.
As photos. But the back would only be printed with some data.


But IME, ink isn't absorbed onto the back of photo paper, so it either
'beads', or simply rubs off.


Arthur, if will you insist on top-posting, I'd rather you didn't reply to my
posts.

His nose is always in the air. He does not care what you say. He does
whatever he wants. He just thinks he never stinks. I am sure you have
seen this type before.

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 02:17:58 -0800, Arthur Entlich wrote:


There goes another top post.

Although it is probably doable, it would be a bit tricky mechanically.
It could probably be done by lengthening the carriage and having the
reverse black only head on one edge of the carriage in an area not
available for printing of the other side.

Some papers really can't be printed on the reverse side because they are
coated with a plastic that doesn't absorb any ink, so it remains wet
nearly indefinitely.

If the paper is receptive to print on the back, bleed through could
still be a problem, although they could probably use a light "black"
(gray) ink.

Interesting idea. Like you suggested, best for higher end products.

The other approach might be a specialty paper which is treated for rear
printing and using another printing technology that doesn't involve the
complexity of inkjet heads. Something like the Lightscribe CDs and DVDs
using a light source of a heat source to write on a light/heat sensitive
surface on the back.


Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

Alan Browne wrote:
Paul Furman wrote:
Alan Browne wrote:

It would be very, very nice if photo printers would print data on the
back of photos with whatever info the photographer likes in plain B&W
at the same time that they print the photo on the otherside. eg:
Selected EXIF data, comments, copyright and so on.

I don't want to run the photo paper through a printer as I think the
photo side might get marred (pre or post photo print).

When I get lab prints they usually have data printed on the back
(date, tint/color offsets, frame number...)

Yeah that would be nice though some papers are only printable on one
side.

As photos. But the back would only be printed with some data.

You would need a whole separate printer on the bottom so I guess

This is pretty cheap these days. For a $100 printer, maybe too much.
For a $1400 printer (or even a $400 printer) it would be noise in the
price. Again, one color, simple text.

the practical workaround is to just print it on the margin & waste a
little paper. AutoCAD drafting software has various ways of inserting
a timestamp on the margin or title block which usually includes the
file name and path/location.

Kinda ruins presentation, however. The back of a photo is a place to
document the image as described.

If I'm organized, I'll hand write that on the back with a sharpie
water proof pen but I wonder if that ink can bleed on a stack of
prints or through the paper. I'm not usually that organized and when I
come back a year later it can take a while to figure out where the
image file is for a given print.

I wouldn't use a sharpie on a photo for the bleed reason. I could see
my way to applying a sticker or using a pencil, lightly.

It would be theoretically possible to automate the exif & path somehow
and print that on an adhesive label but still a hassle.

Yep. Hence the idea of a back printer...

OG wrote:
"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
Paul Furman wrote:
Alan Browne wrote:
It would be very, very nice if photo printers would print data on the
back of photos with whatever info the photographer likes in plain B&W at
the same time that they print the photo on the otherside. eg: Selected
EXIF data, comments, copyright and so on.

I don't want to run the photo paper through a printer as I think the
photo side might get marred (pre or post photo print).

When I get lab prints they usually have data printed on the back (date,
tint/color offsets, frame number...)
Yeah that would be nice though some papers are only printable on one
side.
As photos. But the back would only be printed with some data.


But IME, ink isn't absorbed onto the back of photo paper, so it either
'beads', or simply rubs off.

As I say elsewhere, make a photo printer that prints data on the back
and paper makers will make photo papers that are printable on the back.
This certainly was not a problem with lab papers which were routinely
ink printed on the back.

--
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Paul Furman wrote:
good stuff snipped

Here's a $100 label printer:
http://www.google.com/products/catal...533#ps-sellers

I can do that with my office printer. I'm just looking for that elusive
integrated solution.

exiftool can be used to extract select exif data, I have a batch file to
create little text files with matching names like _DSC03289.txt for web
use and could modify it to add the file name & path. The path includes a
folder name with date and location/description. So I could do something
like this:

copyright 2008 Paul Furman www.edgehill.net
NIKON D700 50mm f/1.2 1/125s ISO:200 EC:0
lens:50mm f/1.2 MF No Flash
C:\Users\paul\Desktop\_paul\_Pictures\2008\2008-12-09-window\_0032509.JPG

Theoretically I think the batch file could be set up to run from a
right-click menu and send the text directly to the label printer:
copy _DSC03289.txt LPT1

Or... someone could write a photoshop plugin to do that (not me though).
A photoshop plugin could presumably get annotation from the Adobe Bridge
database.

Something like that. As long as the printer driver is passed a link to
the file location, it could 'dig in' and get the data (or have that data
passed to it).

I could do it with php on my web site so it gathers the info including
any annotation. That's not a bad way to go. A web application could
extract that info from flickr or pbase or wherever. Pulling from a web
page you would get a useful url instead of a nasty DOS file path.

This is not as useful, IMO, as the print will survive many decades so
links to a file location are not all that useful. The file is not
likely there. But long basic filenames (without path):

("Some_description_date_serial_number") can be searched.

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Bob AZ wrote:

One could also set things up to print the data on tha face of the
print on the widest border. Borderless prints excepted.

No doubt. But I'm seeking the integrated solution.

eg: you can get DVD burners with printers built in (or is it printers
with DVD burners built in...) so why not a photo printer with an
annotation printer on the verso?

Printing on the border is not desired as some photos do end up framed
and the border area might not be matted.

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
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Paul Furman wrote:

Another reason to do adhesive labels I guess...

I'm not crazy about adhesive migration in the photo paper.
(Maybe a bit paranoid). A "bit"? Yeah, riiigght.

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-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
-- usenet posts from gmail.com and googlemail.com are filtered out.