Taking Night Pictures with Canon S410

I've had the Canon S410 camera for a couple of months now and am happy
with its features except for one: I cannot seem to take long-distance
evening photos with the camera!

If I shoot an image up close in the dark, then the camera works
wonderfully. It illuminates the subject matter and the picture comes
out very clear. Pictures taken from far away are a different story.

If I shoot in auto mode, the image comes out dark. If I shoot in
manual mode and adjust the ISO speed to be higher, then the image
comes out fuzzy. Leaving the ISO speed low results in a clear but
dark picture. I don't carry a tripod, and unless there is an object
for me to place my hands on as I take the photo - which usually isn't
the case - then night shots are pretty much out with this camera.

Any advice? Any other adjustments I could be setting? Suggestions
appreciated!

Joy

(Joy Brunetti) writes:

If I shoot an image up close in the dark, then the camera works
wonderfully. It illuminates the subject matter and the picture comes
out very clear.

Yes, the built-in flash illuminates things out to 10 feet or so
(depending on ISO setting)

If I shoot in auto mode, the image comes out dark. If I shoot in
manual mode and adjust the ISO speed to be higher, then the image
comes out fuzzy. Leaving the ISO speed low results in a clear but
dark picture. I don't carry a tripod, and unless there is an object
for me to place my hands on as I take the photo - which usually isn't
the case - then night shots are pretty much out with this camera.

You're running into a fundamental limit that affects all cameras. You
need a certain amount of light to create an image. There are two ways
to do this: a long exposure with existing light, or by adding light.

Long exposures are prone to camera shake, and you simply must have a
tripod for exposures longer than 1/8 sec or so if you expect them to be
sharp. A monopod is better than nothing, but it's not comparable to a
tripod unless you use something else at the same time as the monopod.

To add light, you'll need a flash. The camera doesn't have a flash sync
output, so you need an external flash that's triggered by the camera flash.
You may need a flash that's fired by the *second* of two closely-spaced
incoming light pulses, since the Canon cameras tend to fire their
internal flash twice (once to measure exposure). Automatic exposure
control for flash won't work either, so you'll need to manually set
flash output, or use a flash that has its own auto flash sensor. And
after all this, flash range is *still* limited to some larger but finite
distance. You can't illuminate landscapes with flash.

Dave

(Joy Brunetti) writes:

If I shoot an image up close in the dark, then the camera works
wonderfully. It illuminates the subject matter and the picture comes
out very clear.

Yes, the built-in flash illuminates things out to 10 feet or so
(depending on ISO setting)

If I shoot in auto mode, the image comes out dark. If I shoot in
manual mode and adjust the ISO speed to be higher, then the image
comes out fuzzy. Leaving the ISO speed low results in a clear but
dark picture. I don't carry a tripod, and unless there is an object
for me to place my hands on as I take the photo - which usually isn't
the case - then night shots are pretty much out with this camera.

You're running into a fundamental limit that affects all cameras. You
need a certain amount of light to create an image. There are two ways
to do this: a long exposure with existing light, or by adding light.

Long exposures are prone to camera shake, and you simply must have a
tripod for exposures longer than 1/8 sec or so if you expect them to be
sharp. A monopod is better than nothing, but it's not comparable to a
tripod unless you use something else at the same time as the monopod.

To add light, you'll need a flash. The camera doesn't have a flash sync
output, so you need an external flash that's triggered by the camera flash.
You may need a flash that's fired by the *second* of two closely-spaced
incoming light pulses, since the Canon cameras tend to fire their
internal flash twice (once to measure exposure). Automatic exposure
control for flash won't work either, so you'll need to manually set
flash output, or use a flash that has its own auto flash sensor. And
after all this, flash range is *still* limited to some larger but finite
distance. You can't illuminate landscapes with flash.

Dave

Dave Martindale wrote:
[]
Long exposures are prone to camera shake, and you simply must have a
tripod for exposures longer than 1/8 sec or so if you expect them to
be sharp.
[]
Dave

A tripod or other stable support. We have had great success just using
available objects - walls, seats, ledges etc - particularly with the Nikon
Coolpix 990 range where the body is split so that you can alter the angle
of the lens relative to the firmly supported body. Others suggest
bean-bags. Just make sure that the camera is stable, and perhaps use the
delayed action to ensure that you are not touching the camera at the
moment of exposure.

Cheers,
David

Dave Martindale wrote:
[]
Long exposures are prone to camera shake, and you simply must have a
tripod for exposures longer than 1/8 sec or so if you expect them to
be sharp.
[]
Dave

A tripod or other stable support. We have had great success just using
available objects - walls, seats, ledges etc - particularly with the Nikon
Coolpix 990 range where the body is split so that you can alter the angle
of the lens relative to the firmly supported body. Others suggest
bean-bags. Just make sure that the camera is stable, and perhaps use the
delayed action to ensure that you are not touching the camera at the
moment of exposure.

Cheers,
David

(Dave Martindale) wrote in message ...
(Joy Brunetti) writes:

If I shoot an image up close in the dark, then the camera works
wonderfully. It illuminates the subject matter and the picture comes
out very clear.

Yes, the built-in flash illuminates things out to 10 feet or so
(depending on ISO setting)

If I shoot in auto mode, the image comes out dark. If I shoot in
manual mode and adjust the ISO speed to be higher, then the image
comes out fuzzy. Leaving the ISO speed low results in a clear but
dark picture. I don't carry a tripod, and unless there is an object
for me to place my hands on as I take the photo - which usually isn't
the case - then night shots are pretty much out with this camera.

You're running into a fundamental limit that affects all cameras. You
need a certain amount of light to create an image. There are two ways
to do this: a long exposure with existing light, or by adding light.

Long exposures are prone to camera shake, and you simply must have a
tripod for exposures longer than 1/8 sec or so if you expect them to be
sharp. A monopod is better than nothing, but it's not comparable to a
tripod unless you use something else at the same time as the monopod.

So basically then I *have* to have a tripod, or at least some object
to place the camera on as I take a photo? There's no "just alter
these settings in addition to the ISO speed and it will be better"?
weak grin

I was in Europe in June at the Vatican trying to take a picture of the
Pieta, which is in back of protective glass due to the ax-wielding
idiot that tried to chop off bits of the statue back in the 80s.
Anyways, taking the picture with flash was out, since the light would
have bounced off the glass. So I took the photo without flash in auto
mode and the camera raised the ISO speed, which means blurry picture.
I played around with the ISO speed in manual mode and I got nothing
but dark and/or blurry pictures. And this was all while I was setting
the camera on the ledge in front of the glass to minimize shake.

Basically I did not get a picture of the Pieta, nor was I able to take
any pictures after 8:00 PM during the entire trip from afar. My
crappy 35-mm Konika camera had no trouble with night shots, and I'm
contemplating bringing it along in the future just to be able to take
evening shots! But I shouldn't have to do this...

To add light, you'll need a flash. The camera doesn't have a flash sync
output, so you need an external flash that's triggered by the camera flash.
You may need a flash that's fired by the *second* of two closely-spaced
incoming light pulses, since the Canon cameras tend to fire their
internal flash twice (once to measure exposure). Automatic exposure
control for flash won't work either, so you'll need to manually set
flash output, or use a flash that has its own auto flash sensor. And
after all this, flash range is *still* limited to some larger but finite
distance. You can't illuminate landscapes with flash.

So what to do? I understand that landspaces have to have some natural
lighting in order to be visible in evening shots, but when they do and
I still get nothing but blurry pictures from this camera, what can be
done about that? (For example, the Colosseum is lit at night, and I
could not get any good pictures of it past sunset from a block away,
which would have been pretty.)

(Dave Martindale) wrote in message ...
(Joy Brunetti) writes:

If I shoot an image up close in the dark, then the camera works
wonderfully. It illuminates the subject matter and the picture comes
out very clear.

Yes, the built-in flash illuminates things out to 10 feet or so
(depending on ISO setting)

If I shoot in auto mode, the image comes out dark. If I shoot in
manual mode and adjust the ISO speed to be higher, then the image
comes out fuzzy. Leaving the ISO speed low results in a clear but
dark picture. I don't carry a tripod, and unless there is an object
for me to place my hands on as I take the photo - which usually isn't
the case - then night shots are pretty much out with this camera.

You're running into a fundamental limit that affects all cameras. You
need a certain amount of light to create an image. There are two ways
to do this: a long exposure with existing light, or by adding light.

Long exposures are prone to camera shake, and you simply must have a
tripod for exposures longer than 1/8 sec or so if you expect them to be
sharp. A monopod is better than nothing, but it's not comparable to a
tripod unless you use something else at the same time as the monopod.

So basically then I *have* to have a tripod, or at least some object
to place the camera on as I take a photo? There's no "just alter
these settings in addition to the ISO speed and it will be better"?
weak grin

I was in Europe in June at the Vatican trying to take a picture of the
Pieta, which is in back of protective glass due to the ax-wielding
idiot that tried to chop off bits of the statue back in the 80s.
Anyways, taking the picture with flash was out, since the light would
have bounced off the glass. So I took the photo without flash in auto
mode and the camera raised the ISO speed, which means blurry picture.
I played around with the ISO speed in manual mode and I got nothing
but dark and/or blurry pictures. And this was all while I was setting
the camera on the ledge in front of the glass to minimize shake.

Basically I did not get a picture of the Pieta, nor was I able to take
any pictures after 8:00 PM during the entire trip from afar. My
crappy 35-mm Konika camera had no trouble with night shots, and I'm
contemplating bringing it along in the future just to be able to take
evening shots! But I shouldn't have to do this...

To add light, you'll need a flash. The camera doesn't have a flash sync
output, so you need an external flash that's triggered by the camera flash.
You may need a flash that's fired by the *second* of two closely-spaced
incoming light pulses, since the Canon cameras tend to fire their
internal flash twice (once to measure exposure). Automatic exposure
control for flash won't work either, so you'll need to manually set
flash output, or use a flash that has its own auto flash sensor. And
after all this, flash range is *still* limited to some larger but finite
distance. You can't illuminate landscapes with flash.

So what to do? I understand that landspaces have to have some natural
lighting in order to be visible in evening shots, but when they do and
I still get nothing but blurry pictures from this camera, what can be
done about that? (For example, the Colosseum is lit at night, and I
could not get any good pictures of it past sunset from a block away,
which would have been pretty.)

(Dave Martindale) wrote in message ...
(Joy Brunetti) writes:

If I shoot an image up close in the dark, then the camera works
wonderfully. It illuminates the subject matter and the picture comes
out very clear.

Yes, the built-in flash illuminates things out to 10 feet or so
(depending on ISO setting)

If I shoot in auto mode, the image comes out dark. If I shoot in
manual mode and adjust the ISO speed to be higher, then the image
comes out fuzzy. Leaving the ISO speed low results in a clear but
dark picture. I don't carry a tripod, and unless there is an object
for me to place my hands on as I take the photo - which usually isn't
the case - then night shots are pretty much out with this camera.

You're running into a fundamental limit that affects all cameras. You
need a certain amount of light to create an image. There are two ways
to do this: a long exposure with existing light, or by adding light.

Long exposures are prone to camera shake, and you simply must have a
tripod for exposures longer than 1/8 sec or so if you expect them to be
sharp. A monopod is better than nothing, but it's not comparable to a
tripod unless you use something else at the same time as the monopod.

So basically then I *have* to have a tripod, or at least some object
to place the camera on as I take a photo? There's no "just alter
these settings in addition to the ISO speed and it will be better"?
weak grin

I was in Europe in June at the Vatican trying to take a picture of the
Pieta, which is in back of protective glass due to the ax-wielding
idiot that tried to chop off bits of the statue back in the 80s.
Anyways, taking the picture with flash was out, since the light would
have bounced off the glass. So I took the photo without flash in auto
mode and the camera raised the ISO speed, which means blurry picture.
I played around with the ISO speed in manual mode and I got nothing
but dark and/or blurry pictures. And this was all while I was setting
the camera on the ledge in front of the glass to minimize shake.

Basically I did not get a picture of the Pieta, nor was I able to take
any pictures after 8:00 PM during the entire trip from afar. My
crappy 35-mm Konika camera had no trouble with night shots, and I'm
contemplating bringing it along in the future just to be able to take
evening shots! But I shouldn't have to do this...

To add light, you'll need a flash. The camera doesn't have a flash sync
output, so you need an external flash that's triggered by the camera flash.
You may need a flash that's fired by the *second* of two closely-spaced
incoming light pulses, since the Canon cameras tend to fire their
internal flash twice (once to measure exposure). Automatic exposure
control for flash won't work either, so you'll need to manually set
flash output, or use a flash that has its own auto flash sensor. And
after all this, flash range is *still* limited to some larger but finite
distance. You can't illuminate landscapes with flash.

So what to do? I understand that landspaces have to have some natural
lighting in order to be visible in evening shots, but when they do and
I still get nothing but blurry pictures from this camera, what can be
done about that? (For example, the Colosseum is lit at night, and I
could not get any good pictures of it past sunset from a block away,
which would have been pretty.)

On 15 Aug 2004 10:42:19 -0700, (Joy Brunetti)
wrote:

So basically then I *have* to have a tripod, or at least some object
to place the camera on as I take a photo?

Hi Joy,

I don't normally take a tripod with me--certainly not to Europe--but
I've found that in many situations it's possible to find a solid
surface that I can either rest the camera on (horizontal) or hold the
camera against (vertical). This photo was taken with the S400 being
held sideways against a post. (The flat side of the S400 makes this
fairly easy to do.)The exposure was 1/5 second, which is definitely
not handholdable. The photo is published in the September, 2004,
issue of Stereophile Magazine. http://www.pbase.com/image/32426835

The following photo was taken with the Canon S30, and although I don't
have the exposure info, but I know that it was again in the
non-handholdable range, with the camera resting on a horizontal solid
surface. http://www.pbase.com/image/3524263.

There's no "just alter
these settings in addition to the ISO speed and it will be better"?


Forget turning up the ISO. That will just increase the visual noise
level (like grain) without giving you much of a meaningful increase in
sensitivity. A longer exposure is much better. Make sure you use the
self-timer exposure rather than the normal shutter release button.
(Pressing the latter can introduce vibration.)

Bob

On 15 Aug 2004 10:42:19 -0700, (Joy Brunetti)
wrote:

So basically then I *have* to have a tripod, or at least some object
to place the camera on as I take a photo?

Hi Joy,

I don't normally take a tripod with me--certainly not to Europe--but
I've found that in many situations it's possible to find a solid
surface that I can either rest the camera on (horizontal) or hold the
camera against (vertical). This photo was taken with the S400 being
held sideways against a post. (The flat side of the S400 makes this
fairly easy to do.)The exposure was 1/5 second, which is definitely
not handholdable. The photo is published in the September, 2004,
issue of Stereophile Magazine. http://www.pbase.com/image/32426835

The following photo was taken with the Canon S30, and although I don't
have the exposure info, but I know that it was again in the
non-handholdable range, with the camera resting on a horizontal solid
surface. http://www.pbase.com/image/3524263.

There's no "just alter
these settings in addition to the ISO speed and it will be better"?


Forget turning up the ISO. That will just increase the visual noise
level (like grain) without giving you much of a meaningful increase in
sensitivity. A longer exposure is much better. Make sure you use the
self-timer exposure rather than the normal shutter release button.
(Pressing the latter can introduce vibration.)

Bob