Why so blue?

Ron C wrote:
On 2/18/2015 8:27 PM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
Ron C wrote:
On 2/18/2015 4:05 PM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
Ron C wrote:
First off, I didn't take this photo.

A ski area I've been following on twitter has been tweeting pictures
that almost always have horrible white balance.
Example:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1w8ikjxoh...Tweet.jpg?dl=0

What the heck are they doing wrong? I have no idea what they're using
to take these shots.

The scene is illuminated with blue light from a blue sky
and reflections of that blue light from all that white
snow.

All it needs is the have the "horrible white balance"
set to something not horrible.

Night shot, no overwhelming blue sky reflections:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0baaj2ly60...eet-2.jpg?dl=0

Actually at night virtually all of the light from the sky is also
very blue. That's why the shadow areas are blue, and the areas lit
by electric lights are not.

Hence it is the same problem, "horrible white balance", except this
time there is an added problem. Light from two different sources
that are quite different. You can't set the White Balance for one
without getting something odd from the other.

Not buying that. I've seen a number of balanced "Go-Pro"
shots on that mountain in various lighting conditions that
don't have that problem/effect.

Well then don't buy it!

Do some research and come back when you want to discuss
how that is just exactly what is happening, and why.

I'm wondering if this is one of those "creative" in camera
processes, some camera defect, or something else.
As far as I know, folks that tweet pictures don't tend
to do much post processing. Thus for me the question
"why so blue" is still open.

Anyway, it's not an effect I'm seeking to emulate.
My camera doesn't do any of those silly things.

==
Later...
Ron C
--

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

In article , Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

Kevin McMurtrie:
In article ,

Ron C:
First off, I didn't take this photo.

A ski area I've been following on twitter has been tweeting
pictures that almost always have horrible white balance.
Example:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1w8ikjxoh...Tweet.jpg?dl=0


What the heck are they doing wrong? I have no idea what they're
using to take these shots.

=Later... Ron C --

Kevin McMurtrie:
Whitebalance is set to daylight or indoors when it should be set
to cloudy or auto. Snow is actually very blue.

Snow is not blue.

Yes, it is. Snow, like water, absorbs red. Not by much, but enough for it to be
noticeable when a lot of light scattering takes place.

When looking at snow from outside, most of the light you see are refracted from
the surface, making it appear whiter, when looking at snow from the inside, the
light will be blue, since the snow (i.e. ice crystals) will have absorbed the red
wavelength.

The sky and the ocean is blue for the same reason, water absorbing red.

In the photo in question, the snow in the shadows is blue due to scattered blue
light from the sky (like you said), but possibly also due to smart phone filters
or incorrect white balance settings, enhancing the effect.

--
Sandman

Sandman wrote:
In article , Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

Kevin McMurtrie:
In article ,

Ron C:
First off, I didn't take this photo.

A ski area I've been following on twitter has been tweeting
pictures that almost always have horrible white balance.
Example:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1w8ikjxoh...Tweet.jpg?dl=0


What the heck are they doing wrong? I have no idea what they're
using to take these shots.

=Later... Ron C --

Kevin McMurtrie:
Whitebalance is set to daylight or indoors when it should be set
to cloudy or auto. Snow is actually very blue.

Snow is not blue.

Yes, it is. Snow, like water, absorbs red. Not by much, but enough for it to be
noticeable when a lot of light scattering takes place.

"Not enough for to be noticeable" indeed.

Snow is white, not blue.

When looking at snow from outside, most of the light you see are refracted from
the surface, making it appear whiter, when looking at snow from the inside, the
light will be blue, since the snow (i.e. ice crystals) will have absorbed the red
wavelength.

So you are saying, again, that snow is really white! When we photograph it...

The sky and the ocean is blue for the same reason, water absorbing red.

Not true.

In the photo in question, the snow in the shadows is blue due to scattered blue
light from the sky (like you said), but possibly also due to smart phone filters
or incorrect white balance settings, enhancing the effect.

Bingo! Just exactly like I said!

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

In article , Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

Kevin McMurtrie:
In article
,

Ron C:
First off, I didn't take this photo.

A ski area I've been following on twitter has been tweeting
pictures that almost always have horrible white balance.
Example:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1w8ikjxoh...Tweet.jpg?dl=0

What the heck are they doing wrong? I have no idea what
they're using to take these shots.

=Later... Ron C --

Kevin McMurtrie:
Whitebalance is set to daylight or indoors
when it should be set to cloudy or auto. Snow is actually
very blue.

Floyd L. Davidson:
Snow is not blue.

Sandman:
Yes, it is. Snow, like water, absorbs red. Not by much, but enough
for it to be noticeable when a lot of light scattering takes
place.

"Not enough for to be noticeable" indeed.

Snow is white, not blue.

Incorrect.

Sandman:
When looking at snow from outside, most of the light you see are
refracted from the surface, making it appear whiter, when looking
at snow from the inside, the light will be blue, since the snow
(i.e. ice crystals) will have absorbed the red wavelength.

So you are saying, again, that snow is really white! When we
photograph it...

I am correctly saying that the water in snow absorbs the red wavelength. Water,
and thus snow, is not white - contrary to your incorrect claim.

Sandman:
The sky and the ocean is blue for the same reason, water absorbing
red.

Not true.

Incorrect.

Sandman:
In the photo in question, the snow in the shadows is blue due to
scattered blue light from the sky (like you said), but possibly
also due to smart phone filters or incorrect white balance
settings, enhancing the effect.

Bingo! Just exactly like I said!

Indeed. There are occasions where you say something correct. They are very rare
but they happen.

--
Sandman

Sandman wrote:
In article , Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

Kevin McMurtrie:
In article
,

Ron C:
First off, I didn't take this photo.

A ski area I've been following on twitter has been tweeting
pictures that almost always have horrible white balance.
Example:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1w8ikjxoh...Tweet.jpg?dl=0

What the heck are they doing wrong? I have no idea what
they're using to take these shots.

=Later... Ron C --

Kevin McMurtrie:
Whitebalance is set to daylight or indoors
when it should be set to cloudy or auto. Snow is actually
very blue.

Floyd L. Davidson:
Snow is not blue.

Sandman:
Yes, it is. Snow, like water, absorbs red. Not by much, but enough
for it to be noticeable when a lot of light scattering takes
place.

"Not enough for to be noticeable" indeed.

Snow is white, not blue.

Incorrect.

Sandman:
When looking at snow from outside, most of the light you see are
refracted from the surface, making it appear whiter, when looking
at snow from the inside, the light will be blue, since the snow
(i.e. ice crystals) will have absorbed the red wavelength.

So you are saying, again, that snow is really white! When we
photograph it...

I am correctly saying that the water in snow absorbs the red wavelength. Water,
and thus snow, is not white - contrary to your incorrect claim.

You seem to have missed the point that we don't
photograph snow from the inside, but from the outside,
where it is by your own statements *white*.

Hilarious that you don't even read what you write! Apparently
you are copying it from some place else, rather than actually
writing, it. And you don't understand it.

Sandman:
The sky and the ocean is blue for the same reason, water absorbing
red.

Not true.

Incorrect.

You just explained how it is exactly what I originally said it was!

Sandman:
In the photo in question, the snow in the shadows is blue due to
scattered blue light from the sky (like you said), but possibly
also due to smart phone filters or incorrect white balance
settings, enhancing the effect.

Bingo! Just exactly like I said!

Indeed. There are occasions where you say something correct. They are very rare
but they happen.

And you don't ever seem to get anything right. This is a prime
example.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

In article , Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

Floyd L. Davidson:
Snow is not blue.

snip

Sandman:
I am correctly saying that the water in snow absorbs the red
wavelength. Water, and thus snow, is not white - contrary to your
incorrect claim.

You seem to have missed the point that we don't photograph snow from
the inside, but from the outside, where it is by your own statements
*white*.

I am correcting your incorrect statement above.

Sandman:
The sky and the ocean is blue for the same reason,
water absorbing red.

Floyd L. Davidson:
Not true.

Sandman:
Incorrect.

You just explained how it is exactly what I originally said it was!

Yes, you are correct that the snow is blue *in that picture* due to refracted
light from the sky. I am correcting your *INCORRECT* statement that "Snow is not
blue". Snow *IS* blue for the stated reasons.

I snipped out your obvious ignorance and trolling to make it appear like you're
more adult than you really are.

--
Sandman

Sandman wrote:
In article , Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

Floyd L. Davidson:
Snow is not blue.

snip

Sandman:
I am correctly saying that the water in snow absorbs the red
wavelength. Water, and thus snow, is not white - contrary to your
incorrect claim.

You seem to have missed the point that we don't photograph snow from
the inside, but from the outside, where it is by your own statements
*white*.

I am correcting your incorrect statement above.

You are contradicting yourself! This is hilarious.

Sandman:
The sky and the ocean is blue for the same reason,
water absorbing red.

Floyd L. Davidson:
Not true.

Sandman:
Incorrect.

You just explained how it is exactly what I originally said it was!

Yes, you are correct that the snow is blue *in that picture* due to refracted
light from the sky. I am correcting your *INCORRECT* statement that "Snow is not
blue". Snow *IS* blue for the stated reasons.

The snow is not blue, it is white, and that is a fact. Even what you said
described it that way!

I snipped out your obvious ignorance and trolling to make it appear like you're
more adult than you really are.

And left in the part where you aren't. Hmmm...

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

In article , Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

Floyd L. Davidson:
Snow is not blue.

snip trolling

Fact 1:
You correctly stated that the snow in the shadows appears blue in the photo due
to light from the sky.

Fact 2:
You incorrectly stated that "snow is not blue".

Repeat until you understand the difference. I'm just amazed that you for once
said something correct. You really should celebrate.


--
Sandman

On 2015-02-19 09:02:56 +0000, Sandman said:

In article , Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

Kevin McMurtrie:
In article ,

Ron C:
First off, I didn't take this photo.

A ski area I've been following on twitter has been tweeting
pictures that almost always have horrible white balance.
Example:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1w8ikjxoh...Tweet.jpg?dl=0


What the heck are they doing wrong? I have no idea what they're
using to take these shots.

=Later... Ron C --

Kevin McMurtrie:
Whitebalance is set to daylight or indoors when it should be set
to cloudy or auto. Snow is actually very blue.

Snow is not blue.

Yes, it is. Snow, like water, absorbs red. Not by much, but enough for it to be
noticeable when a lot of light scattering takes place.

When looking at snow from outside, most of the light you see are refracted from
the surface, making it appear whiter, when looking at snow from the inside, the
light will be blue, since the snow (i.e. ice crystals) will have
absorbed the red
wavelength.

The sky and the ocean is blue for the same reason, water absorbing red.

Not quite, it has nothing to do with absorption of red. The sky & the
ocean appear blue for very different but related reasons. You have to
start with the sky.
The sky appears blue due several physical effects, the two most
important are "Diffuse sky radiation" and "Rayleigh scattering".
Basically blue light is at the short wavelength of the visible light
spectrum, and air scatters short wavelength more than long wavelength
red light, so the human eye perceives the sky as blue. Think about why
we used UV filters.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/atmos/blusky.html

The ocean and other bodies of water appear blue due to surface
reflection as does snow.

So the reality is not that sky, ocean, snow, etc, are actually blue,
they are not, that is our perception. Consider the ocean on a cloudy
day.

In the photo in question, the snow in the shadows is blue due to scattered blue
light from the sky (like you said), but possibly also due to smart
phone filters
or incorrect white balance settings, enhancing the effect.

I tend to agree that the problem with this image is probably due to a
failure of the camera or the operator.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

Savageduck wrote:

The ocean and other bodies of water appear blue due to surface
reflection as does snow.

The blue colour of deep water is not entirely from reflection
of the sky. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_of_water.

While glacier ice is clear enough to be blue, this has nothing
to do with the colour of snow. Clean snow is more than 80% reflective
of all visible wavelengths - thus snow is white unless the light
it reflects is coloured.

Peter
--