Sharpening & Noise Reduction- In Camera, or After?

I use a Panasonic LX1 (my first digital) and have been having fun
learning my way around. I've also received good advice from this
newsgroup about several topics, including noise reduction. Because my
camera choice has proven to be very noisy above 100 ISO, and I knew this
going in, I sprang for Noise Ninja, which has been a big help. But I
don't like the softening that it sometimes performs on some of my shots.

So here's the question:

My camera preference settings allow for slight, medium, or high noise
reduction and also, separately, the same for sharpening. I'll do some
experimenting on my own, but wonder what the experts here think about
in-camera vs after-camera noise reduction and sharpening, or even using
both at once. Thanks for any imput..........:-)

I believe this camera has a raw option.
That being the case if you want to learn image processing, e.g. in a program
like Elements, you will get the best results by processing images yourself
rather than allowing the programmed algorithms in the camera to make
irreversible changes to your images.
It is not clear what you are calling "noise": unless you are shooting at the
extremes of the ISO range and underexposing noise should not be an issue
under most circumstances.
You may be noticing the sharpening applied to jpeg images, particularly at
the boundaries of dark and light edges, combined with lens and sensor issues
yielding fringing?
This is a snapshot/P&S, small sensor camera and tuned for that kind of use.
Ultimately you may be asking more than the sensor and optics can provide and
need to step up, in capability, size and weight to a dSLR.

I turn sharpening and when possible noise reduction down and do both post
processing. The only exception is A) when you have no control over the noise
reduction. B) Long exposure noise reduction which should not be confused
with regular noise reduction is always on. I have not seen too many cameras
that let you control the normal exposure noise reduction. Most only seem to
let you control the long exposure (over 1 second) black frame subtraction
noise reduction. This I always leave on. If you have control over the normal
noise reduction I turn it off or down as low as she will go, the same with
sharpening.

You can always with the right software do a much better job of sharpening
and noise reduction post process.

LJC


"Richard DeLuca" wrote in message
news
I use a Panasonic LX1 (my first digital) and have been having fun
learning my way around. I've also received good advice from this
newsgroup about several topics, including noise reduction. Because my
camera choice has proven to be very noisy above 100 ISO, and I knew this
going in, I sprang for Noise Ninja, which has been a big help. But I
don't like the softening that it sometimes performs on some of my shots.

So here's the question:

My camera preference settings allow for slight, medium, or high noise
reduction and also, separately, the same for sharpening. I'll do some
experimenting on my own, but wonder what the experts here think about
in-camera vs after-camera noise reduction and sharpening, or even using
both at once. Thanks for any imput..........:-)

Richard DeLuca wrote:
I use a Panasonic LX1 (my first digital) and have been having fun
learning my way around. I've also received good advice from this
newsgroup about several topics, including noise reduction. Because my
camera choice has proven to be very noisy above 100 ISO, and I knew this
going in, I sprang for Noise Ninja, which has been a big help. But I
don't like the softening that it sometimes performs on some of my shots.

So here's the question:

My camera preference settings allow for slight, medium, or high noise
reduction and also, separately, the same for sharpening. I'll do some
experimenting on my own, but wonder what the experts here think about
in-camera vs after-camera noise reduction and sharpening, or even using
both at once. Thanks for any imput..........:-)

Generally, the sharpening you can do out of camera is more
controllable.
But if you are really interested, shoot the same shot using each
combination and systematically determine what approach is best. Some
writers have suggested doing the
sharpening last, after all other post-camera image modifications.

bmoag wrote:
I believe this camera has a raw option.
That being the case if you want to learn image processing, e.g. in a
program like Elements, you will get the best results by processing
images yourself rather than allowing the programmed algorithms in
the
camera to make irreversible changes to your images.
It is not clear what you are calling "noise": unless you are
shooting
at the extremes of the ISO range and underexposing noise should not
be an issue under most circumstances.
You may be noticing the sharpening applied to jpeg images,
particularly at the boundaries of dark and light edges, combined
with
lens and sensor issues yielding fringing?
This is a snapshot/P&S, small sensor camera and tuned for that kind
of use. Ultimately you may be asking more than the sensor and optics
can provide and need to step up, in capability, size and weight to a
dSLR.

The usually reliable and circumspect bmoag lost a bit of the plot,
this time out:

"This camera", for those who missed the introduction, is Panasonic
LX1. I'll register an objection to "This is a snapshot/P&S"; "small
sensor camera", yes; "tuned for that kind of use"? Nonsense (I don't
say that very often)! It's the photographer who determines the
snapshotness of its use, not the camera.

The LX1 _is_ noisy, sometimes even at 80 ISO; however, it's as
fully-operator-controlled as most dSLRs, in every significant function
(except full-sun viewfinding and manual focus) and at least one that
very few others of any _genre_ offer: aspect ratio. 16:9, 3:2, 4:3.
That is 8, 7, and 6 MP, at your externally-switched option.

The optics are of excellent specification, Leica-named, excellent
performers. It has an effective image stabilization scheme.

Meanwhile, back to the OP's question:
I turn down or off all the in-camera processing when I can, and use
raw files for early control, PS CS2 for final. Works for me.

Back to the LX1 deficiencies rant:
If Mr Panasonic would listen to me, I'd tell him to figure out an
optical viewfinder solution, and for gosh' sake, let me have my raw
files without that (generally) useless siamesed JPEG that is a
mandatory option.

My most-used camera.
http://www.flickr.com/gp/42887062@N00/373mEz

--
Frank ess
"You know my method, Watson.
It is founded upon
the observation of trifles."
—Sherlock Holmes—

In article ,
"Frank ess" wrote:



The usually reliable and circumspect bmoag lost a bit of the plot,
this time out:

"This camera", for those who missed the introduction, is Panasonic
LX1. I'll register an objection to "This is a snapshot/P&S"; "small
sensor camera", yes; "tuned for that kind of use"? Nonsense (I don't
say that very often)! It's the photographer who determines the
snapshotness of its use, not the camera.

The LX1 _is_ noisy, sometimes even at 80 ISO; however, it's as
fully-operator-controlled as most dSLRs, in every significant function
(except full-sun viewfinding and manual focus) and at least one that
very few others of any _genre_ offer: aspect ratio. 16:9, 3:2, 4:3.
That is 8, 7, and 6 MP, at your externally-switched option.

The optics are of excellent specification, Leica-named, excellent
performers. It has an effective image stabilization scheme.

Meanwhile, back to the OP's question:
I turn down or off all the in-camera processing when I can, and use
raw files for early control, PS CS2 for final. Works for me.

Back to the LX1 deficiencies rant:
If Mr Panasonic would listen to me, I'd tell him to figure out an
optical viewfinder solution, and for gosh' sake, let me have my raw
files without that (generally) useless siamesed JPEG that is a
mandatory option.

My most-used camera.
http://www.flickr.com/gp/42887062@N00/373mEz

You know, I'm really glad you said all that. Although new to digital,
I've been a photographer ever since seeing Edward Weston's work at a
state fair when I was a little kid, and Gordon Park's stuff a little
later. And I still love shooting with old classic press and 35mm
cameras, from a 4X5 Speed Graphic to a Leica M3 and M6, and a Alpa 6C.

What sold me on the Panasonic was that it reminds me so much of my M6 in
look, build, size and operation. I'm not disappointed in it at all, and
have no desire for a big clunky dSLR. As a street shooter, I like
minimum intrusion between me and the picture. If it weren't for the
noise, I'd leave my film cameras on the shelf most of the time.

My camera preference settings allow for slight, medium, or high noise
reduction and also, separately, the same for sharpening. I'll do some
experimenting on my own, but wonder what the experts here think about
in-camera vs after-camera noise reduction and sharpening, or even using
both at once. Thanks for any imput..........:-)

Once sharpened, you can't go back. Sharpening often adds artifacts and
"enhances" the image in a way that may be more pleasing to the eye. But it
does so in a destructive manner. You may get better results playing with
different sharpening settings, or perhaps deliberately sharpening some parts
of a photo and not others, after it's out of the camera.

The best reason for sharpening in-camera is that it saves you time. Not
everyone wants to extensively post-process their photos.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Richard DeLuca" wrote in message
news
I use a Panasonic LX1 (my first digital) and have been having fun
learning my way around. I've also received good advice from this
newsgroup about several topics, including noise reduction. Because my
camera choice has proven to be very noisy above 100 ISO, and I knew this
going in, I sprang for Noise Ninja, which has been a big help. But I
don't like the softening that it sometimes performs on some of my shots.

So here's the question:

My camera preference settings allow for slight, medium, or high noise
reduction and also, separately, the same for sharpening. I'll do some
experimenting on my own, but wonder what the experts here think about
in-camera vs after-camera noise reduction and sharpening, or even using
both at once. Thanks for any imput..........:-)