iOS 11 and macOS High Sierra

"Tony Cooper" wrote

| Seems like it would run down the battery if one wasn't careful to turn
| off Live Photos when not expecting to use it.
|
I thought the quote from the head of marketing,
referring to the HomePod speakers, put it in a
nutshell:

"You don't have to know what any of that is; just
know that it sounds incredible"

Gotta love a company whose head of marketing talks
to the customers like they're idiots. Then again, they
expect those customers to spend $5K on a new
computer. So clearly they are idiots. So... you're in
AppleLand now. Don't worry about thinking. Don't
anticipate problems. Just enjoy the magic.... Be wooed
by the elegance.... and please keep your wallet open
as you approach the front of the line. The Apple Church
needs to service hundreds of other devotees who are
in line behind you, so you need to just grab stuff,
pay bucks, and move along. Thank You, and God
Bless Lord Jobs.

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

I thought the quote from the head of marketing,
referring to the HomePod speakers, put it in a
nutshell:

"You don't have to know what any of that is; just
know that it sounds incredible"

Gotta love a company whose head of marketing talks
to the customers like they're idiots.

you're taking things out of context.

Then again, they
expect those customers to spend $5K on a new
computer. So clearly they are idiots.

that $5k is for a system that *starts* with an 8 core xeon processor,
configurable up to *18* cores, 10 gigabit ethernet port, an internal 5k
wide gamut display and can also drive *two* *more* external 5k displays
in addition to the internal one. that don't come cheap.

not everyone needs that level of power, and there are less expensive
options, from apple and others.

So... you're in
AppleLand now. Don't worry about thinking. Don't
anticipate problems. Just enjoy the magic.... Be wooed
by the elegance.... and please keep your wallet open
as you approach the front of the line. The Apple Church
needs to service hundreds of other devotees who are
in line behind you, so you need to just grab stuff,
pay bucks, and move along. Thank You, and God
Bless Lord Jobs.

speaking of idiots...

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

If Live Photos is a mode that can be turned on or off, it would seem
that this adds battery drain when it is on.

Yes or no?

no.

there is no reason why it would.

I'm not "claiming" it is draining the battery, but am asking why the
battery is not increasing in use because the camera is recording that
extra 1.5 seconds at all times when that mode is on.

because it's not recording anything unless you actually take a photo.

the live preview, which occurs any time the camera app is open, is
buffered in memory for autofocus, autoexposure, face detection, special
effects and much more, whether or not live photos is on or off.

if live photos is off, just the photo is saved to flash.

if live photos is on, then the photo plus the last 1.5 seconds of the
memory buffer is saved, plus the following 1.5 seconds unless the
camera moved enough to where the video is no longer relevant. {*]

even if you don't take any photos at all, the phone is still using
power to run the camera app, get data from the sensor, display it on
the screen, etc.

the amount of power to write a file to flash, even if the file is
slightly bigger when it contains video, is negligible compared to
everything else that's going on.

* when live photos first came out, there were a lot of live photos that
ended with video of people's feet, the sky, the inside of their pocket,
etc., because people put the phone away after taking the photo, so the
phone now checks for that happening and if it does, it stops saving
video.

Tony Cooper Wrote in message:
On Tue, 06 Jun 2017 22:53:19 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:



While it is in that mode it is recording everything all the time but
dumps everything older than 1.5 seconds. When you push the button it
attaches the end of currently saved 1.5 seconds to the beginning of
the next 1.5 seconds thereby giving you a 3 seconds shot.

Gotcha. I didn't know there was a mode, or setting, involved. I
didn't recognize "Live Photos" as being a mode or setting, but I
should have.

Seems like it would run down the battery if one wasn't careful to
turn
off Live Photos when not expecting to use it.

there's no reason why it would run down the battery with it on or off.


If Live Photos is a mode that can be turned on or off, it would seem
that this adds battery drain when it is on.

Yes or no?

no.

there is no reason why it would.

I'm not "claiming" it is draining the battery, but am asking why the
battery is not increasing in use because the camera is recording that
extra 1.5 seconds at all times when that mode is on.

The iPhone is using live view anyways but writing to mem could
make some minor dent in your bat. Turn the silliness off!Get the
DxO One addon if you wanna take good pics with an
IPhone...
--
360 ain't enough


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 2017-06-06 19:40, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jun 2017 11:29:20 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Jun 2017 11:52:46 -0400, Tony Cooper
wrote:

What am I missing? I don't follow Apple news, but the above indicates
that the camera function activates before the user of the device knows
he's going to take a photo.

While it is in that mode it is recording everything all the time but
dumps everything older than 1.5 seconds. When you push the button it
attaches the end of currently saved 1.5 seconds to the beginning of
the next 1.5 seconds thereby giving you a 3 seconds shot.

Gotcha. I didn't know there was a mode, or setting, involved. I
didn't recognize "Live Photos" as being a mode or setting, but I
should have.

Seems like it would run down the battery if one wasn't careful to turn
off Live Photos when not expecting to use it.

I suspect it uses the usual clever tricks to determine whether you are
about to take a photo (camera app open, in-app option visible to the
user to activate, motion processing that indicates a photo taking
posture and so on) so the additional power draw is not all that much.

If the meat and bones of the function is in hardware (GPU) rather than
s/w then the additional power draw could be dramatically lower, as well.

Further, the temporary images would be written to RAM, not flash, so not
much power is needed.

Like most features, when it's active, more power is being used - but
there are always strategies (some above) to minimize that draw. Apple
have been pushing a lot of features to hardware when possible. This
improves both performance and energy use.

--
"If war is God's way of teaching Americans geography, then
recession is His way of teaching everyone a little economics."
..Raj Patel, The Value of Nothing.

On 6/6/2017 11:06 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Tony Cooper" wrote

| Seems like it would run down the battery if one wasn't careful to turn
| off Live Photos when not expecting to use it.
|
I thought the quote from the head of marketing,
referring to the HomePod speakers, put it in a
nutshell:

"You don't have to know what any of that is; just
know that it sounds incredible"

The HomePod has better specs than the Echo or Google Home in it's build
quality. The HomePod is larger than the other two which allows for a
larger subwoofer. it also has seven tweeters. No one has been able to
report on it's sound quality yet but I expect it to be better than
either the Echo or Google Home. If it's worth almost three times the
price of the Google Home or double the price of the Echo is a question
for the user to answer. Microsoft's Cortana enabled device is made by
Harman Kardon and I expect it to have superior sound qaulity to the Echo
and Goold Home just as the HomePod will. It most likely will have a
price closer to the HomePod.

Amazon allows the smart assistant to be used by third party
manufacturers and there are thousands of "skills" it has. It has a leg
up on all the other assistants because of that. We all know how much of
a "closed" system the HomePod will be so it remains to be seen how fast
the functionality of the HomePod can even come close to an Echo or
Google Home.


Gotta love a company whose head of marketing talks
to the customers like they're idiots. Then again, they
expect those customers to spend $5K on a new
computer. So clearly they are idiots. So... you're in
AppleLand now. Don't worry about thinking. Don't
anticipate problems. Just enjoy the magic.... Be wooed
by the elegance.... and please keep your wallet open
as you approach the front of the line. The Apple Church
needs to service hundreds of other devotees who are
in line behind you, so you need to just grab stuff,
pay bucks, and move along. Thank You, and God
Bless Lord Jobs.

On Jun 7, 2017, PAS wrote
(in article ):

On 6/6/2017 11:06 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Tony wrote

Seems like it would run down the battery if one wasn't careful to turn
off Live Photos when not expecting to use it.
I thought the quote from the head of marketing,
referring to the HomePod speakers, put it in a
nutshell:

"You don't have to know what any of that is; just
know that it sounds incredible"

The HomePod has better specs than the Echo or Google Home in it's build
quality. The HomePod is larger than the other two which allows for a
larger subwoofer. it also has seven tweeters. No one has been able to
report on it's sound quality yet but I expect it to be better than
either the Echo or Google Home. If it's worth almost three times the
price of the Google Home or double the price of the Echo is a question
for the user to answer. Microsoft's Cortana enabled device is made by
Harman Kardon and I expect it to have superior sound qaulity to the Echo
and Goold Home just as the HomePod will. It most likely will have a
price closer to the HomePod.

Amazon allows the smart assistant to be used by third party
manufacturers and there are thousands of "skills" it has. It has a leg
up on all the other assistants because of that. We all know how much of
a "closed" system the HomePod will be so it remains to be seen how fast
the functionality of the HomePod can even come close to an Echo or
Google Home.

This might help explain some of the Homepod mystery;
http://www.macworld.com/article/1030983/home-tech/homepod.html

....and the current Apple PR:
https://www.apple.com/homepod/


Gotta love a company whose head of marketing talks
to the customers like they're idiots.

Gotta love individuals who are locked into their particular prejudices.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

On Jun 7, 2017, Tony Cooper wrote
(in ):

On Wed, 07 Jun 2017 04:01:17 -0400,
wrote:

In , Tony Cooper
wrote:

If Live Photos is a mode that can be turned on or off, it would seem
that this adds battery drain when it is on.

Yes or no?

no.

there is no reason why it would.

I'm not "claiming" it is draining the battery, but am asking why the
battery is not increasing in use because the camera is recording that
extra 1.5 seconds at all times when that mode is on.

because it's not recording anything unless you actually take a photo.

the live preview, which occurs any time the camera app is open, is
buffered in memory for autofocus, autoexposure, face detection, special
effects and much more, whether or not live photos is on or off.

if live photos is off, just the photo is saved to flash.

if live photos is on, then the photo plus the last 1.5 seconds of the
memory buffer is saved, plus the following 1.5 seconds unless the
camera moved enough to where the video is no longer relevant. {*]

even if you don't take any photos at all, the phone is still using
power to run the camera app, get data from the sensor, display it on
the screen, etc.

the amount of power to write a file to flash, even if the file is
slightly bigger when it contains video, is negligible compared to
everything else that's going on.

If I read that correctly, the answer to my question is "Yes", not
"No", but the contention is that the battery drain is negligible and -
assumedly - will not affect the phone's performance.

Correct.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

In article , Tony Cooper wrote:

In article , Tony
Cooper

While it is in that mode it is recording
everything all the time but dumps everything older
than 1.5 seconds. When you push the button it
attaches the end of currently saved 1.5 seconds to
the beginning of the next 1.5 seconds thereby
giving you a 3 seconds shot.

Gotcha. I didn't know there was a mode, or setting,
involved. I didn't recognize "Live Photos" as being
a mode or setting, but I should have.

Seems like it would run down the battery if one
wasn't careful to turn off Live Photos when not
expecting to use it.

there's no reason why it would run down the battery
with it on or off.

Andreas Skitsnack:
If Live Photos is a mode that can be turned on or off, it would
seem that this adds battery drain when it is on.

Yes or no?

no.

there is no reason why it would.

I'm not "claiming" it is draining the battery, but am asking why the
battery is not increasing in use because the camera is recording
that extra 1.5 seconds at all times when that mode is on.

Obviously live photo takes more battery power than not using it - from the
assumption that if you turn it off, the buffer isn't used at all.

When the camera app is active, the camera sensor is being read from and is
being displayed live on the display. The iPhone 7 Plus display is 2
megapixels, so obviously the entire camera sensor image is not streamed as-is
to the screen, it's a scaled-down version. The buffer contains 3 seconds of
12 megapixel images. It captures these at 15 fps, so you get a total of 45
12MP images when taking one shot.

Obviously, buffering and saving 45 12MP images takes processing power which
in turn consumes battery (and storage space). I would assume that this is
very marginal though, and like I said, it assumes that this buffer isn't
always used even when the user elects these images not to be saved, which it
could be, if the user has turned live photos OFF and the buffer is still
there, the camera app could do a quick analysis of the buffer to select the
least blurry photo for instance, which may have been four frames before (or
after) the user actually pressed the shutter button.

In that case, there would be no difference other than in storage space.

--
Sandman

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

If Live Photos is a mode that can be turned on or off, it would seem
that this adds battery drain when it is on.

Yes or no?

no.

there is no reason why it would.

I'm not "claiming" it is draining the battery, but am asking why the
battery is not increasing in use because the camera is recording that
extra 1.5 seconds at all times when that mode is on.

because it's not recording anything unless you actually take a photo.

the live preview, which occurs any time the camera app is open, is
buffered in memory for autofocus, autoexposure, face detection, special
effects and much more, whether or not live photos is on or off.

if live photos is off, just the photo is saved to flash.

if live photos is on, then the photo plus the last 1.5 seconds of the
memory buffer is saved, plus the following 1.5 seconds unless the
camera moved enough to where the video is no longer relevant. {*]

even if you don't take any photos at all, the phone is still using
power to run the camera app, get data from the sensor, display it on
the screen, etc.

the amount of power to write a file to flash, even if the file is
slightly bigger when it contains video, is negligible compared to
everything else that's going on.

If I read that correctly, the answer to my question is "Yes", not
"No", but the contention is that the battery drain is negligible and -
assumedly - will not affect the phone's performance.

then you read it incorrectly.

the only difference in battery drain is in writing a slightly larger
file, taking a tiny fraction of a second longer, a difference so small
that the amount of additional power probably can't be measured, let
alone noticed by the user.