D50, 350d, or P&S

Hi;

After ahving Fujifilm 2800 for 4 years, and being frustrated by its low
light performance, speed, flash, and lack of controls I have decided to
move one step up. My usage is general indoor and outdoor, some nature,
mainly family occasion (indoor, with and without flash) and some portrait.
The low noise and speed od DSLRs is attarctive to me but if I choose a DSLR
I will use it with a single zoom lens, I will not be carrying multiple
lenses around.

I cannot choose between Canon 350D and Nikon D50 (or a good P&S). From the
reviews it seems D50 has better noise characteristics but 350D has higer
resolution and is sharper. The kit lens of D50 seems better than that of
350D. If I go with d50 probably I will go with the 18-70 zoom that is
standatd on D70.

I would appreciate sharing your experience and thoughts. My case agains
most P&S's is their high noise level and speed, but if there are good
candidates, I will consider them.

Thanks

Far

If noise is the main concern, then consider the Pentax *istDs. It's in the
same category as the Canon and Nikon you mentioned.

Jean.

"Per Ting" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
Hi;

After ahving Fujifilm 2800 for 4 years, and being frustrated by its low
light performance, speed, flash, and lack of controls I have decided to
move one step up. My usage is general indoor and outdoor, some nature,
mainly family occasion (indoor, with and without flash) and some portrait.
The low noise and speed od DSLRs is attarctive to me but if I choose a
DSLR
I will use it with a single zoom lens, I will not be carrying multiple
lenses around.

I cannot choose between Canon 350D and Nikon D50 (or a good P&S). From the
reviews it seems D50 has better noise characteristics but 350D has higer
resolution and is sharper. The kit lens of D50 seems better than that of
350D. If I go with d50 probably I will go with the 18-70 zoom that is
standatd on D70.

I would appreciate sharing your experience and thoughts. My case agains
most P&S's is their high noise level and speed, but if there are good
candidates, I will consider them.

Thanks

Far

The Pentax DS has some strengths... IMO it 'handles' better than the
350D, the pentaprism wipes the floor with the others.

It has some weaknesses. A relatively poor JPEG engine... a very poor
selection of lenses IMO but it's backed up well with Sigma lenses.

IMO the Nikon is probably better all round but it's bigger and over
here as much as 60% more expensive... and let's not talk about lenses.

This is kinda like luxury cars... if people get off their BMW and
Mercedes fetishes they'll find there is quite strong competition
from... Audi???

T.

wrote:

The Pentax DS has some strengths... IMO it 'handles' better than the
350D, the pentaprism wipes the floor with the others.

It has some weaknesses. A relatively poor JPEG engine... a very poor
selection of lenses IMO but it's backed up well with Sigma lenses.


A very poor selection of lenses? Which planet are you on?

The Pentax *ist D, DS, DS2 and DL all accept virtually every Pentax
lens ever made, whether M42 screw mount Takumars or SMC Pentax K, KM
and KA, or any of the Pentax AF lenses. There is also a huge range of
compatible lenses from Tamron, Tokina, Vivitar, Kiron, and Zeiss as
well as Sigma.

Most of the older Pentax lenses are excellent performers and the
majority are available used at very low prices. Obviously, the wider
angles are in greater demand thanks to the "1.5X factor" but there are
still some good bargains to be had on eBay and elsewhere.

Pentax are just about to introduce a 12-24mm zoom which will address
the perceived weakness of the current AF lens range in the shorter
focal lengths.

There's ONE 80-200mm f2.8! I went with the Sigma version.

The only other lens I would be intersted in is the 28-70mm f2.8 - I
also went Sigma for that.

Two lenses I really want... that's terrible IMO.

I'm not interested in the compatibility with old lenses, I know many
people are.

T.

wrote:

There's ONE 80-200mm f2.8! I went with the Sigma version.

The only other lens I would be intersted in is the 28-70mm f2.8 - I
also went Sigma for that.


So you are actually *complaining* that Pentax offers a top quality
lens in each of your two chosen focal length ranges? It seems that
you don't really know what you are complaining about.

Having used Sigma's 70-200mm f/2.8 and 28-70mm f/2.8 lenses I would
not even consider buying either. The best reason for buying a Pentax
DSLR is the optical quality of Pentax lenses. Using inferior lenses
might save you money, but the quality simply isn't there - that's both
optical quality and build quality.

On 17 Sep 2005 13:13:13 GMT, Per Ting wrote:

Hi;

After ahving Fujifilm 2800 for 4 years, and being frustrated by its low
light performance, speed, flash, and lack of controls I have decided to
move one step up. My usage is general indoor and outdoor, some nature,
mainly family occasion (indoor, with and without flash) and some portrait.
The low noise and speed od DSLRs is attarctive to me but if I choose a DSLR
I will use it with a single zoom lens, I will not be carrying multiple
lenses around.

I cannot choose between Canon 350D and Nikon D50 (or a good P&S). From the
reviews it seems D50 has better noise characteristics but 350D has higer
resolution and is sharper.

According to one review, the Canon is not sharper at the higher ISO
settings and the jpeg compression on the D50 is too severe. So get
the D50, forget the P&S (except for perhaps the new Sony R1 which is
at least acceptable) and shoot RAW.
-Rich

Per Ting wrote:
Hi;

After ahving Fujifilm 2800 for 4 years, and being frustrated by its
low light performance, speed, flash, and lack of controls I have
decided to move one step up. My usage is general indoor and outdoor,
some nature, mainly family occasion (indoor, with and without flash)
and some portrait. The low noise and speed od DSLRs is attarctive to
me but if I choose a DSLR I will use it with a single zoom lens, I
will not be carrying multiple lenses around.

I cannot choose between Canon 350D and Nikon D50 (or a good P&S).
From the reviews it seems D50 has better noise characteristics but
350D has higer resolution and is sharper. The kit lens of D50 seems
better than that of 350D. If I go with d50 probably I will go with
the 18-70 zoom that is standatd on D70.

I would appreciate sharing your experience and thoughts. My case
agains most P&S's is their high noise level and speed, but if there
are good candidates, I will consider them.

Consider "horses for courses".

Get all three, or all three and a half-dozen more, each meeting your
needs for a given set of circumstances. Buy a Senior Citizen scooter
to tow a trailer around, so you can reach in and pull out what is
appropriate. While you're at it, hire an accomplished assistant or
three, who have worked with professional photographers in several
_genre_. They will be able to respond to your instructions with
exactly the equipment, exposures, and post-procedures required to
produce the photograph you have described to them. Then your agent(s)
will present, promote, and sell your work, and you will be rich and
famous. Then you will be so bored with all that Johnnie-Come-Easily
luxury, you'll have to start hanging out in Usenet groups just to keep
your intellect from evaporating altogether.

Barring that, the modern entry-level dSLRs all have functions that
emulate point-and-shoot. The disadvantage in that line is bulk: they
are bigger than P&Ss that can accomplish somewhat the same ends. If
you expect to use a single zoom lens, you have defeated the principal
underlying reason to operate a dSLR. The Pantosonic, Nickon, and
Cannon troups will each suggest their prosumer P&S efforts will meet
your needs one way or another, and thay are right. If the remaining
reservation has to do with 'noise', you can trade off your
unwillingness to carry more than one lens, by adding a NoiseNinja or
other such smoothing program to your arsenal, usually to good effect.
Your single zoom-lens is not going to do much for non-flash low-light
stuff.

You didn't mention how your "My usage is general indoor and outdoor,
some nature, mainly family occasion (indoor, with and without flash)
and some portrait" work is to be viewed. If it is on-screen, and/or
not larger than 8x10 home- or WalMart-made prints, dSLRing, even with
a single zoom lens, will be a waste of resources. Within those
parameters, P&Sing is the best compromise, investmently speaking. If
you expect your original purchase to be the last, get a High-End P&S
and live with its shortcomings.

My choice would be Canon 350D with the alternate 'kit' lens and a
Canon 50mm 1.8 for indoors low-light and portrait. And an assumption
that I'm going to like it and buy more stuff, later.

Easy-peasy from my view.

--
Frank ess

According to Per Ting :
Hi;

After ahving Fujifilm 2800 for 4 years, and being frustrated by its low
light performance, speed, flash, and lack of controls I have decided to
move one step up. My usage is general indoor and outdoor, some nature,
mainly family occasion (indoor, with and without flash) and some portrait.
The low noise and speed od DSLRs is attarctive to me but if I choose a DSLR
I will use it with a single zoom lens, I will not be carrying multiple
lenses around.

Hmm ... not *carrying* multiple lenses -- this might suggest the
possibility of actually *owning* multiple lenses, and opting to carry
only one at a time -- selected for the kind of photography which you
plan at that particular moment.

I own a Nikon D70, and at present have five lenses which I
consider to be necessary at different times. I'll list them in the
order in which I acquired them:

1) 28-105mm f3.5-4.5: Equivalent zoom range to 42-157.5mm on
a 35mm film camera. I prefer this one
for shooting people at portrait ranges,
plus it has an excellent macro mode for
extreme close-ups (if your nature
photography includes insects and
individual blossoms.)

2) 180mm f2.5 Manual focus:Converted to a CPU so it could be used
with the camera's metering system.
Equivalent focal length of 270mm.

3) 50mm f1.4: Excellent for low-light photography,
and nice for close-in portraits
(equivalent to 75mm.)

4) 18-70mm f3.5-4.5: The traditional "kit" lens for the
D70. I finally got this for the wide
angle coverage, and find it to be
sharper than an older 20mm f2.8 which I
need to use in manual exposure mode.
Equivalent film focal lengths will be
27-105mm -- very close to the first lens
above if I were using it on a film
camera.

5) 200mm f5.6 med. Nikkor: Built-in ring flash, designed for hand-held
close-ups up to a 3:1 magnification
ratio. Antique, but excellent for the
purpose.

Now -- if I were doing what I consider nature photography
(squirrels, deer, chipmunks, birds, and whatever else comes within
reach, I would want a longer lens -- perhaps a real 300mm (450mm
equivalent) -- and somewhat faster than the two zooms listed. I would
want at least an f2.8 -- and ideally with VR (Vibration Reduction) which
takes the lens' price totally out of my reach.

Note that the D70 (and presumably the D50) can be set for
"auto ISO" -- so if the light is too low to allow a reasonable shutter
speed for handheld shooting, it will boost the ISO (sensitivity) until
you can take the shot. This has allowed quite a few shots in low light
even with the f3.5 maximum aperture of the first lens in the list. But
the 50mm f1.4 lets me go down into "available darkness"

I cannot choose between Canon 350D and Nikon D50 (or a good P&S). From the
reviews it seems D50 has better noise characteristics but 350D has higer
resolution and is sharper. The kit lens of D50 seems better than that of
350D. If I go with d50 probably I will go with the 18-70 zoom that is
standatd on D70.

Both cameras will take excellent photos. I would suggest that
you go into a local photo store, and try each camera. See how it feels
in your hands. I would include the D70 or D70s in the collection to
try. Different people find different cameras to feel "right" in their
hands, and since you don't have an existing collection of lenses to sway
your choice, the choice should be made on what is easiest for you to
use. (I had quite a few Nikon lenses already -- so for me the choice of
the D70 made sense.)

And I really believe that you will find that more than one lens
will eventually find its way into your hands, as each does some things
better than others. Don't be afraid to get a used lens from a good
photo store. Of the lenses above, three were obtained used (and at least
one no longer available new). Those are the 180mm f2.8 (from a hamfest
-- think giant electronics flea market), the 50mm f1.4 (from the camera
store where I got the D70), and the 200mm f5.6 Medical Nikkor (from an
eBay auction). I already had an earlier version of that lens, which had
an AC-only power supply for the ring flash. This one had the battery
powered supply (eight "D" cells). (I could not have just gotten the
supply because the connector changed between the two lens versions.)

I would appreciate sharing your experience and thoughts. My case agains
most P&S's is their high noise level and speed, but if there are good
candidates, I will consider them.

Note that when you let the "Auto ISO" pump the ISO up to 1600,
it will have some noise -- but not nearly as bad as the grain would have
been in film at that speed. And not nearly as bad as a P&S with a tiny
sensor would have shown.

As for speed -- at least on the Nikon D70, I switch it on while
raising it to my eye, and it is ready to shoot as soon as I have my eye
to the viewfinder. This contrasts to "wait forever" with the Nikon
CoolPix 950 P&S camera which preceded it.

In reasonable light, the autofocus is very quick. As the light
gets lower, the autofocus gets slower, but this should be expected with
any DSLR. There is an "autofocus assist" option in the menus which will
turn on a light to assist in quicker focusing at close ranges. This is
obviously counterproductive if you want to be inconspicuous in your
photography.

For greater ranges in very low lights, you may well be better
off to switch to manual focus (with the 18-70mm "kit" lens, and some
other newer lenses, you can simply grip the focus ring and override the
autofocus -- but with the autofocus turned off, the camera will shoot
when you hit the button, without the delay for the autofocus to
complete.

If you have time to pre-focus to the area where your subject
will be, this can save you some response time in the actual shot. You
can do this either by half depressing the shutter release, or by manually
focusing.

Note that you have a collection of "modes" on the selector dial,
including "Auto" (in a green box), "P"rogram, "A"perture, "S"hutter,
"M"anual, and several specialized modes. In some of those, including
the "Auto" mode, the autofocus chooses to focus on whatever is closest
to the camera. Sometimes, this is not what you want. The "P"rogram
mode allows you to turn this option off or on as you prefer, but
otherwise, it is almost as automatic as the "Auto" setting. In the
"P"rogram mode, and several others, you can move the autofocus zone to
one of five zones, located in the form of a '+' sign. I normally keep
it locked in the center, but there are times when it is better to move
it to some other location.

You will need to get an answer from someone else to cover
details about the 350d, as I do not own one.

I hope that this is some help,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Per Ting wrote:

I cannot choose between Canon 350D and Nikon D50 (or a good P&S).

Maxxum 5D with 24-105D lens.


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