What the M is

"Robert Coe" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:56:44 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg
wrote:
: Robert Coe wrote:
: A number of people, some of whom should know better, have been dissing
the new
: Canon M for not having some or all of the features of a professional
or
: semi-professional DSLR. I think we should be careful not to let their
: disappointment distract us from what has actually happened here. Which
is that
: Canon, before any of its competitors, has begun a line of mirrorless
cameras
: capable of evolving, with body enhancements only, into a putative
replacement
: for some of its serious cameras (in their case, the 7D and ultimately,
with a
: FF sensor, the 5D as well).
:
: Even assuming that Canon could magically transfer all the good
: points of a SLR design into a camera (including an electronic
: viewfinder), it'll never replace the 5D series: EF-M --- the
: mount --- can't do a FF sensor. It's a dedicated 1.6x crop mount.
:
: Because today a processor fast enough to drive the necessary
high-resolution
: EVF would be too inefficient for the job; i.e., it would run too hot
and go
: through batteries too fast.
:
: Really?

Really. The Canon Web site predicts that the M will average 230 pictures
on a
battery charge. With no built-in flash to help slurp up watts. Sad.


That's because it's driving a large hi res rear LCD. Why would a small EVF
use more power?
(and you don't need both at once)

Trevor.

On 2012-07-27 01:32 , Wally wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:52:01 -0400, Robert Coe wrote:

Really. The Canon Web site predicts that the M will average 230 pictures on a
battery charge. With no built-in flash to help slurp up watts. Sad.

That's not a problem for me. 230 pics is a lot of pics. If you need
more, get an extra battery.

230 is not much when you consider that you may not get to re-charge the
battery often. I have 2 batts for my camera but it's rare that I run
one down during a single days shooting. That doesn't mean I'll be in
position to recharge it before the next day, however.


--
"Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities."
-Samuel Clemens.

On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 09:34:09 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:

On 2012-07-27 01:32 , Wally wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:52:01 -0400, Robert Coe wrote:

Really. The Canon Web site predicts that the M will average 230 pictures on a
battery charge. With no built-in flash to help slurp up watts. Sad.

That's not a problem for me. 230 pics is a lot of pics. If you need
more, get an extra battery.

230 is not much when you consider that you may not get to re-charge the
battery often. I have 2 batts for my camera but it's rare that I run
one down during a single days shooting. That doesn't mean I'll be in
position to recharge it before the next day, however.

I did some cursory checks of my shooting and found on some occasions I
do around 300+ shots per day - not often, but often enough. (I'm an
amateur.)

But I wouldn't do such shooting on the M. The M would be taken along
on days such as where I don't expect to shoot, or in situations where
a DSLR is a bit out of place.

I had such a situation yesterday on a hike (with a hiking club). Took
my wife's PowerShot SD980 and took 15 shots.

BTW, my wife has had the SD980 for 2 years now, and has taken 790
shots TOTAL in that time.

W

On 25/07/2012 02:39, Savageduck wrote:

(...)
Check that wonderful piece of digital imaging technology, the GoPro,
which comes with no view finder option, ...er make that no VF of any
type.
http://gopro.com/

There's an LCD back as an optional accessory:
http://gopro.com/hd-hero-accessories/lcd-bacpac/

Or you can get the WiFi back and remotely view on a smartphone or tablet.


--
Illegitimi non carborundum

On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 23:32:12 -0600, Wally wrote:
: On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:52:01 -0400, Robert Coe wrote:
:
: On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:56:44 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg
: wrote:
: : Robert Coe wrote:
: : A number of people, some of whom should know better, have been dissing the new
: : Canon M for not having some or all of the features of a professional or
: : semi-professional DSLR. I think we should be careful not to let their
: : disappointment distract us from what has actually happened here. Which is that
: : Canon, before any of its competitors, has begun a line of mirrorless cameras
: : capable of evolving, with body enhancements only, into a putative replacement
: : for some of its serious cameras (in their case, the 7D and ultimately, with a
: : FF sensor, the 5D as well).
: :
: : Even assuming that Canon could magically transfer all the good
: : points of a SLR design into a camera (including an electronic
: : viewfinder), it'll never replace the 5D series: EF-M --- the
: : mount --- can't do a FF sensor. It's a dedicated 1.6x crop mount.
: :
: : Because today a processor fast enough to drive the necessary high-resolution
: : EVF would be too inefficient for the job; i.e., it would run too hot and go
: : through batteries too fast.
: :
: : Really?
:
: Really. The Canon Web site predicts that the M will average 230 pictures on a
: battery charge. With no built-in flash to help slurp up watts. Sad.
:
: That's not a problem for me. 230 pics is a lot of pics. If you need
: more, get an extra battery.

I have five batteries for my two 7D's, but I don't much like changing them
during a shoot. 230 pix per shoot is no more than average for me, whether I'm
using one camera or two.

Bob

On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 08:32:59 -0600, Wally wrote:
: On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 09:34:09 -0400, Alan Browne
: wrote:
:
: On 2012-07-27 01:32 , Wally wrote:
: On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:52:01 -0400, Robert Coe wrote:
:
: Really. The Canon Web site predicts that the M will average 230 pictures on a
: battery charge. With no built-in flash to help slurp up watts. Sad.
:
: That's not a problem for me. 230 pics is a lot of pics. If you need
: more, get an extra battery.
:
: 230 is not much when you consider that you may not get to re-charge the
: battery often. I have 2 batts for my camera but it's rare that I run
: one down during a single days shooting. That doesn't mean I'll be in
: position to recharge it before the next day, however.
:
: I did some cursory checks of my shooting and found on some occasions I
: do around 300+ shots per day - not often, but often enough. (I'm an
: amateur.)
:
: But I wouldn't do such shooting on the M. The M would be taken along
: on days such as where I don't expect to shoot, or in situations where
: a DSLR is a bit out of place.

Yeah, but remember that what started this thread was my speculation that the
true objective of the M product line is to eventually introduce much more
serious cameras, an objective that is likely to be thwarted in the short term
by the high power demands of a mirrorless camera and batteries not yet ready
to cope adequately with those demands.

Bob

In article ,
says...
I have five batteries for my two 7D's, but I don't much like changing them
during a shoot. 230 pix per shoot is no more than average for me, whether I'm
using one camera or two.

You seem to be a pro, not exactly the target group of this new camera.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

On 7/27/2012 2:24 PM, Robert Coe wrote:

Yeah, but remember that what started this thread was my speculation that the
true objective of the M product line is to eventually introduce much more
serious cameras, an objective that is likely to be thwarted in the short term
by the high power demands of a mirrorless camera and batteries not yet ready
to cope adequately with those demands.



I've got a Canon 7D, and took 1600 picture during my
vacation in Borneo.

I really really like the 7D. Its auto focus is much better than my
old 30D. At least for flat subjects, that is, or
at least large objects more than filling the active sensor ...
like say a human head filling the center 1/4 of the frame.

But ... I took lots of pictures of wildlife amongst trees.
Mostly birds, monkeys, and orangutangs.

Even at 300mm autofocus often cannot cope. There's
too much near ... or even actually in front of ...
the desired object for autofocus to work correctly.

But of course live view and manual focus works. And it
works much better than the optical viewfinder since you can
get 10x magnification view on the back LCD screen.

AND THIS EATS THE BATTERY UP JUST LIKE a mirrorless camera.

As I quickly found out. I'm glad I had three batteries.

Doug McDonald

On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 15:24:59 -0400, Robert Coe wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 08:32:59 -0600, Wally wrote:
: On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 09:34:09 -0400, Alan Browne
: wrote:
:
: On 2012-07-27 01:32 , Wally wrote:
: On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:52:01 -0400, Robert Coe wrote:
:
: Really. The Canon Web site predicts that the M will average 230 pictures on a
: battery charge. With no built-in flash to help slurp up watts. Sad.
:
: That's not a problem for me. 230 pics is a lot of pics. If you need
: more, get an extra battery.
:
: 230 is not much when you consider that you may not get to re-charge the
: battery often. I have 2 batts for my camera but it's rare that I run
: one down during a single days shooting. That doesn't mean I'll be in
: position to recharge it before the next day, however.
:
: I did some cursory checks of my shooting and found on some occasions I
: do around 300+ shots per day - not often, but often enough. (I'm an
: amateur.)
:
: But I wouldn't do such shooting on the M. The M would be taken along
: on days such as where I don't expect to shoot, or in situations where
: a DSLR is a bit out of place.

Yeah, but remember that what started this thread was my speculation that the
true objective of the M product line is to eventually introduce much more
serious cameras, an objective that is likely to be thwarted in the short term
by the high power demands of a mirrorless camera and batteries not yet ready
to cope adequately with those demands.

Yes, the M mount seems to have the potential to grow into a serious
APS-C line with sophisticated bodies and smaller lenses.

Unfortunately the new EF-M 18-55mm zoom is actually slightly heavier
than the EF-S version, and that is for now an indication that we might
be too optimistic.

W

In rec.photo.digital Doug McDonald wrote:
On 7/27/2012 2:24 PM, Robert Coe wrote:

Yeah, but remember that what started this thread was my speculation that the
true objective of the M product line is to eventually introduce much more
serious cameras, an objective that is likely to be thwarted in the short term
by the high power demands of a mirrorless camera and batteries not yet ready
to cope adequately with those demands.

I've got a Canon 7D, and took 1600 picture during my
vacation in Borneo.

I really really like the 7D. Its auto focus is much better than my
old 30D. At least for flat subjects, that is, or
at least large objects more than filling the active sensor ...
like say a human head filling the center 1/4 of the frame.

But ... I took lots of pictures of wildlife amongst trees.
Mostly birds, monkeys, and orangutangs.

Even at 300mm autofocus often cannot cope. There's
too much near ... or even actually in front of ...
the desired object for autofocus to work correctly.

But of course live view and manual focus works. And it
works much better than the optical viewfinder since you can
get 10x magnification view on the back LCD screen.

AND THIS EATS THE BATTERY UP JUST LIKE a mirrorless camera.

Worse, because it takes power to hold the mirror up.

--
Chris Malcolm
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss
events. Small minds discuss people." Eleanor Roosevelt.