2 questions about digital cameras

Hi,

I am looking into digital cameras. Previously I owned a Canon Powershot
G3. After I sold that, my wife and I got a Powershot SD1000 as a gift.
Now I am looking around again for camera that I like.

At the time I got Powershot G3, it was considered a "Prosumer" camera.
Now, when I searched for a "prosumer camera", I get a listing of Digital
SLR cameras too. I am trying to stay with "point and shoot" although I
do love some of the SLR cameras that I found (which are out of my price
range now).

I do like the Canon Powershot G10. Considering it's lineage, I would
consider it as a prosumer camera. Where do the experts in the field
create the demarcation for point-and-shoot cameras between the consumer,
prosumer, professional cameras?

My second question is, What other brands are out there that are
competing for the Canon G10 consumers? (looking for prosumer
point-and-shoot cameras list only). This way I can compare them and buy
the one that fits my needs.

Thank you in advance for any information and advice.

NJ

On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 07:41:29 -0500, Neil Jones
wrote:

Hi,

I am looking into digital cameras. Previously I owned a Canon Powershot
G3. After I sold that, my wife and I got a Powershot SD1000 as a gift.
Now I am looking around again for camera that I like.

At the time I got Powershot G3, it was considered a "Prosumer" camera.
Now, when I searched for a "prosumer camera", I get a listing of Digital
SLR cameras too. I am trying to stay with "point and shoot" although I
do love some of the SLR cameras that I found (which are out of my price
range now).

I do like the Canon Powershot G10. Considering it's lineage, I would
consider it as a prosumer camera. Where do the experts in the field
create the demarcation for point-and-shoot cameras between the consumer,
prosumer, professional cameras?

Only idiots and insecure self-serving snobs set a demarcation. In the hands of a
real pro even a Brownie Box Camera will be an adequate tool. There are no bad
cameras. There's only millions of talentless hacks hoping that they can buy
"talent in a box" someday. The higher the cost the higher their hopes that it
will finally come with that much sought after "talent-mode" included.

And so they dream....


My second question is, What other brands are out there that are
competing for the Canon G10 consumers? (looking for prosumer
point-and-shoot cameras list only). This way I can compare them and buy
the one that fits my needs.

Thank you in advance for any information and advice.

NJ

"Neil Jones" wrote in message
...
Hi,

At the time I got Powershot G3, it was considered a "Prosumer" camera.
Now, when I searched for a "prosumer camera", I get a listing of Digital
SLR cameras too. I am trying to stay with "point and shoot" although I
do love some of the SLR cameras that I found (which are out of my price
range now).

What the Hell is a "prosumer" camera, the G3 is a "point and shoot" the word
"prosumer" is an incorrect term. Technically a Canon 40D is a "prosumer"
camera, as it has pro features in a consumer price point. Video cameras seem
to started the therm "prosumer" with cameras like the Canon GL2.

Hi Neal,

"Neil Jones" wrote:
I do like the Canon Powershot G10. Considering it's lineage, I would
consider it as a prosumer camera. Where do the experts in the field
create the demarcation for point-and-shoot cameras between the consumer,
prosumer, professional cameras?
In the compact class, prosumer defines a camera with full manual control of
settings like aperture, shutter speed and so on. Also, it normally has
additional features like external flash shoe, a good fast lens, maybe tilt
and swivel LCD, iintegrated ND filter and so on. Yes, the G series has
always be regarded as a prosumer cam. Unfortunately, the G10 does not have a
swivel lcd and fast lens anymore (G6 was the last one), but has a wider zoom
range and IS now. And lots of megapixels. See
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong10/ for a full review. I don´t like
the samples much. There is too much smearing of details even at iso 80.

My second question is, What other brands are out there that are
competing for the Canon G10 consumers? (looking for prosumer
point-and-shoot cameras list only). This way I can compare them and buy
the one that fits my needs.
A similar camera s the Nikon Coolpix P6000

Also look for those so called "bridge cams" or slr-lke superzoom cams that
have a very
wide stabilized zoom range like the Canon SX10, Panasonic Lumix FZ50,
Olympus SP-570UZ or Fuji Finepix S9100.
You can try to search via http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp for
the features you need.

HTH,
Markus

Markus Fuenfrocken wrote:
Hi Neal,

"Neil Jones" wrote:
I do like the Canon Powershot G10. Considering it's lineage, I would
consider it as a prosumer camera. Where do the experts in the field
create the demarcation for point-and-shoot cameras between the consumer,
prosumer, professional cameras?
In the compact class, prosumer defines a camera with full manual control of
settings like aperture, shutter speed and so on. Also, it normally has
additional features like external flash shoe, a good fast lens, maybe tilt
and swivel LCD, iintegrated ND filter and so on. Yes, the G series has
always be regarded as a prosumer cam. Unfortunately, the G10 does not have a
swivel lcd and fast lens anymore (G6 was the last one), but has a wider zoom
range and IS now. And lots of megapixels. See
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong10/ for a full review. I don´t like
the samples much. There is too much smearing of details even at iso 80.

My second question is, What other brands are out there that are
competing for the Canon G10 consumers? (looking for prosumer
point-and-shoot cameras list only). This way I can compare them and buy
the one that fits my needs.
A similar camera s the Nikon Coolpix P6000

Also look for those so called "bridge cams" or slr-lke superzoom cams that
have a very
wide stabilized zoom range like the Canon SX10, Panasonic Lumix FZ50,
Olympus SP-570UZ or Fuji Finepix S9100.
You can try to search via http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp for
the features you need.

HTH,
Markus



Thank you for replying. This explanation is very helpful. When I
bought my Powershot G3 in late 2004, the term "Prosumer" was used a lot
since, at that time it was one of the high-end P&S cameras. Technology
has evolved a lot and now I am hearing other terms as SuperZooms,
MegaZooms and Micro Four Thirds (that is something I learned today).

I love SLRs (still have the Nikon Film SLR) but would try to avoid them
as an amateur photographer. They get more and more expensive with the
lenses and other supporting equipment. The worst part of DSLR cameras
is that they are NOT convenient for vacation travels. A good P&S is
great for travel. However you (atleast me) do want almost SLR like
features. This is where I am fitting into the camera landscape.

Most of the current cameras have video recording capabilities. While it
is not most important thing for me, I have been checking/comparing
cameras that fall in the G10(Prosumer or whatever) class of cameras.

The battery life is another thing that is very important for me as well.
I have ruled out Canon Powershot SX10 IS, since they take AA batteries
(but recommend NiMH).

Based on the research using this criteria, the Panasonic Lumix DMC FZ28
and Canon Powershot G10 are looking good. I will see what Santa will
bring. :-)

Thank you once again for replying.

NJ

Neil Jones wrote:

I love SLRs (still have the Nikon Film SLR) but would try to avoid them
as an amateur photographer. They get more and more expensive with the
lenses and other supporting equipment. The worst part of DSLR cameras
is that they are NOT convenient for vacation travels. A good P&S is
great for travel. However you (atleast me) do want almost SLR like
features. This is where I am fitting into the camera landscape.

Depends on the vacation. I take my D-SLR on some vacations. Yeah, it's
not as convenient as the P&S but some vacations are better enjoyed with
the capabilities of a D-SLR (i.e. Alaska, trips to national parks). By
the time you've loaded up your day pack with two liters of water, lunch,
etc., the added weight and bulk of a D-SLR is lost in the noise.
Remember, you don't have to take every lens you own, one or two lenses
is sufficient.

"SLR-Like" is really misleading. Does that mean interchangeable lenses?
Then only the Panasonic Lumix G1 qualifies. Does it mean no AF lag? Then
no P&S qualifies. Does it mean wide dynamic range? Then no P&S
qualifies. Does it mean good wide angle and telephoto capability with
quality glass? Then no P&S qualifies.

What you should do is to buy the smallest D-SLR, the Olympus E-420. It's
not much larger than a super-zoom (smaller in some cases) and will
perform far, far better.
"http://reviews.photographyreview.com/files/2008/05/olympus_e-420_inhand.jpg"

The battery life is another thing that is very important for me as well.
I have ruled out Canon Powershot SX10 IS, since they take AA batteries
(but recommend NiMH).

Yes, it's really too bad that Canon cheaped out in that way. Yet AA
batteries aren't as bad as they were in the past with the advent of
Eneloop cells with low self-discharge.

On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 17:37:29 -0800, SMS
wrote in :

... Does it mean no AF lag? Then
no P&S qualifies. Does it mean wide dynamic range? Then no P&S
qualifies. Does it mean good wide angle and telephoto capability with
quality glass? Then no P&S qualifies.

Wrong on all counts.

What you should do is to buy the smallest D-SLR, the Olympus E-420. It's
not much larger than a super-zoom (smaller in some cases) and will
perform far, far better.
"http://reviews.photographyreview.com/files/2008/05/olympus_e-420_inhand.jpg"

Actually quite a bit larger, and can't match the lens.
--
Best regards,
John
[Please Note: Ads belong *only* in rec.photo.marketplace.digital, as per
http://bobatkins.photo.net/info/charter.htm http://rpdfaq.50megs.com/]

On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 17:37:29 -0800, SMS wrote:

Neil Jones wrote:

I love SLRs (still have the Nikon Film SLR) but would try to avoid them
as an amateur photographer. They get more and more expensive with the
lenses and other supporting equipment. The worst part of DSLR cameras
is that they are NOT convenient for vacation travels. A good P&S is
great for travel. However you (atleast me) do want almost SLR like
features. This is where I am fitting into the camera landscape.

Depends on the vacation. I take my D-SLR on some vacations. Yeah, it's
not as convenient as the P&S but some vacations are better enjoyed with
the capabilities of a D-SLR (i.e. Alaska, trips to national parks). By
the time you've loaded up your day pack with two liters of water, lunch,
etc., the added weight and bulk of a D-SLR is lost in the noise.
Remember, you don't have to take every lens you own, one or two lenses
is sufficient.


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What a stretch for someone that's never left his mommy's basement.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



"SLR-Like" is really misleading. Does that mean interchangeable lenses?
Then only the Panasonic Lumix G1 qualifies. Does it mean no AF lag? Then
no P&S qualifies. Does it mean wide dynamic range? Then no P&S
qualifies. Does it mean good wide angle and telephoto capability with
quality glass? Then no P&S qualifies.

What you should do is to buy the smallest D-SLR, the Olympus E-420. It's
not much larger than a super-zoom (smaller in some cases) and will
perform far, far better.
"http://reviews.photographyreview.com/files/2008/05/olympus_e-420_inhand.jpg"

The battery life is another thing that is very important for me as well.
I have ruled out Canon Powershot SX10 IS, since they take AA batteries
(but recommend NiMH).

Yes, it's really too bad that Canon cheaped out in that way. Yet AA
batteries aren't as bad as they were in the past with the advent of
Eneloop cells with low self-discharge.

Neil Jones wrote:

Thank you for replying. This explanation is very helpful. When I
bought my Powershot G3 in late 2004, the term "Prosumer" was used a lot
since, at that time it was one of the high-end P&S cameras. Technology
has evolved a lot and now I am hearing other terms as SuperZooms,
MegaZooms and Micro Four Thirds (that is something I learned today).

The G3 was one of the best G series cameras. Still had the articulated
LCD (which the G10 doesn't have), and they didn't go crazy with
megapixels so noise isn't as bad. Too bad there's no CHDK for the G1,
G2, G3, G5, or G6.

The G10 is of the same lineage, but they've decontented it. The G10 is
$415. You can get a D-SLR for about that, though you'll need to spend
something on lenses if you don't already have some EOS lenses.

On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 20:09:41 -0500, Neil Jones wrote:

Most of the current cameras have video recording capabilities. While it
is not most important thing for me, I have been checking/comparing
cameras that fall in the G10(Prosumer or whatever) class of cameras.

The battery life is another thing that is very important for me as well.
I have ruled out Canon Powershot SX10 IS, since they take AA batteries
(but recommend NiMH).

That's surprising. I don't have a G10 manual, but the G7 that it's
based upon rates the battery life at 220 images/charge (CIPA test
using 50% full power flash). The SX10 IS does better, rated at 340
images per set of alkalines and 600 images/charge using NiMH cells,
also per the CIPA test. Canon's cameras typically get 2 to 3 times
the number of shots in non-CIPA tests since the flash isn't used.
With NiMH cells that should result in from 600 to well over 1,000
shots per charge, depending on how often the flash is used. The G10
is newer and much better than the G7 and its NB-7L battery has
greater capacity than the G7's NB-2LH, but I'd be surprised if it
reaches the battery life of the SX10 IS. I think that you'd be
satisfied with any camera whose battery life is as good as, or
slightly less than that of the SX100 IS. If you're ruling out the
SX10 IS because it uses AA cells and not because of its assumed
battery life, that's another matter, and since it's your money, you
also get to be called "The Decider".