Intelligent View Cams

Steve Hamley wrote:
"Captain Blammo" wrote in message ...

Captain, I think you might get a lot from a software simulation of VC
controls. Unfortunately, I have no pointers to such.

I no doubt would. I have no trouble understanding the principles, but I find
that if I know exactly where I want to place the plane of sharp focus, it is
very difficult for me to get it right on the mark, especially at high levels
of swing/tilt.

Often when I swing, the subject moves out of the plane until I can refocus,
whereupon the angle changes, so I adjust the swing, refocus, rinse, repeat
until it's right. I find this a bit cumbersome. Keeping the plane of sharp
focus sharp whilst moving it around would be very helpful.

So I take it that you guys can all place the plane of sharp focus anywhere
you want it with good precision then? If so, pointers on how to pick up the
knack would be appreciated. I've read up on the Scheimpflug and hinge rules,
but I find they're too finicky to predict just by looking at a scene with
any useable accuracy.

Ewan



"Often when I swing, the subject moves out of the plane until I can
refocus,
whereupon the angle changes, so I adjust the swing, refocus, rinse,
repeat
until it's right. I find this a bit cumbersome. Keeping the plane of
sharp
focus sharp whilst moving it around would be very helpful."

Ewan,

I suggest picking up Jack Dykinga's book, "Large Format Nature
Photography". He explains how to do the move-focus iteration, which is
a characteristic of symmetric movement view cameras.

Dykinga's book is invaluable, but it should be noted that he uses
primarily rear tilts. That works fine for what he does, but many of us
prefer in most circumstances to keep the rear standard vertical, which
requires the use of a front tilt.

But there is an alternative, although few of them. The Sinar P series
view camera, the Ebony "U" series field cameras, and the Wehman 8x10
field cameras have asymmetric movements (Sinar P on both, the Wehman
and Ebony on the rear). Asymmetric movements are much easier to set up
and frequently require only 1 iteration per movement (swing, tilt) for
typical landscape scenes. I'm not talking about using the Sinar
scales, etc, just focusing on the swing or tilt point and moving the
other side of the standard to finish.

Steve

Steve Hamley wrote:
"Captain Blammo" wrote in message ...

Captain, I think you might get a lot from a software simulation of VC
controls. Unfortunately, I have no pointers to such.

I no doubt would. I have no trouble understanding the principles, but I find
that if I know exactly where I want to place the plane of sharp focus, it is
very difficult for me to get it right on the mark, especially at high levels
of swing/tilt.

Often when I swing, the subject moves out of the plane until I can refocus,
whereupon the angle changes, so I adjust the swing, refocus, rinse, repeat
until it's right. I find this a bit cumbersome. Keeping the plane of sharp
focus sharp whilst moving it around would be very helpful.

So I take it that you guys can all place the plane of sharp focus anywhere
you want it with good precision then? If so, pointers on how to pick up the
knack would be appreciated. I've read up on the Scheimpflug and hinge rules,
but I find they're too finicky to predict just by looking at a scene with
any useable accuracy.

Ewan



"Often when I swing, the subject moves out of the plane until I can
refocus,
whereupon the angle changes, so I adjust the swing, refocus, rinse,
repeat
until it's right. I find this a bit cumbersome. Keeping the plane of
sharp
focus sharp whilst moving it around would be very helpful."

Ewan,

I suggest picking up Jack Dykinga's book, "Large Format Nature
Photography". He explains how to do the move-focus iteration, which is
a characteristic of symmetric movement view cameras.

Dykinga's book is invaluable, but it should be noted that he uses
primarily rear tilts. That works fine for what he does, but many of us
prefer in most circumstances to keep the rear standard vertical, which
requires the use of a front tilt.

But there is an alternative, although few of them. The Sinar P series
view camera, the Ebony "U" series field cameras, and the Wehman 8x10
field cameras have asymmetric movements (Sinar P on both, the Wehman
and Ebony on the rear). Asymmetric movements are much easier to set up
and frequently require only 1 iteration per movement (swing, tilt) for
typical landscape scenes. I'm not talking about using the Sinar
scales, etc, just focusing on the swing or tilt point and moving the
other side of the standard to finish.

Steve

In article ,
(Steve Hamley) wrote:

have asymmetric movements (Sinar P on both, the Wehman
and Ebony on the rear).

So does the Linhof GTL series + center movements as well as yaw-free
movement.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.

"Leonard Evens" wrote in message
...

If you are good at math and physics, you might look at my essay

http://www.math.northwestern.edu/~le.../dof_essay.pdf

Thanks for that. It is great to have a professional mathematician and
scholar here.

It might be fun if persons of other academic disciplines applied their field
of study to the problem of VC movements. The Political Scientist: Avoid
complicating your effort with technical issues and concentrate upon your
strength. Obviate expertise in view camera movements: instead, obfuscate the
issues by making it appear that your technique yields superior results
within the cultural context of your chosen constituency. If neccessary,
appeal to hired art scholars to fortify your case and repeat your assertion
often with full vigor and confidence." (the Big Dummies Big Lie Approach).

It's easier to cast aspersions on a field I do not really understand.
(That's a recursive comment.)

"Leonard Evens" wrote in message
...

If you are good at math and physics, you might look at my essay

http://www.math.northwestern.edu/~le.../dof_essay.pdf

Thanks for that. It is great to have a professional mathematician and
scholar here.

It might be fun if persons of other academic disciplines applied their field
of study to the problem of VC movements. The Political Scientist: Avoid
complicating your effort with technical issues and concentrate upon your
strength. Obviate expertise in view camera movements: instead, obfuscate the
issues by making it appear that your technique yields superior results
within the cultural context of your chosen constituency. If neccessary,
appeal to hired art scholars to fortify your case and repeat your assertion
often with full vigor and confidence." (the Big Dummies Big Lie Approach).

It's easier to cast aspersions on a field I do not really understand.
(That's a recursive comment.)

In article ,
(Steve Hamley) wrote:

"Captain Blammo" wrote in message
...
Captain, I think you might get a lot from a software simulation of VC
controls. Unfortunately, I have no pointers to such.

I no doubt would. I have no trouble understanding the principles, but I
find
that if I know exactly where I want to place the plane of sharp focus, it
is
very difficult for me to get it right on the mark, especially at high
levels
of swing/tilt.

Often when I swing, the subject moves out of the plane until I can refocus,
whereupon the angle changes, so I adjust the swing, refocus, rinse, repeat
until it's right. I find this a bit cumbersome. Keeping the plane of sharp
focus sharp whilst moving it around would be very helpful.

So I take it that you guys can all place the plane of sharp focus anywhere
you want it with good precision then? If so, pointers on how to pick up the
knack would be appreciated. I've read up on the Scheimpflug and hinge
rules,
but I find they're too finicky to predict just by looking at a scene with
any useable accuracy.

Ewan


"Often when I swing, the subject moves out of the plane until I can
refocus,
whereupon the angle changes, so I adjust the swing, refocus, rinse,
repeat
until it's right. I find this a bit cumbersome. Keeping the plane of
sharp
focus sharp whilst moving it around would be very helpful."

Ewan,

I suggest picking up Jack Dykinga's book, "Large Format Nature
Photography". He explains how to do the move-focus iteration, which is
a characteristic of symmetric movement view cameras.

But there is an alternative, although few of them. The Sinar P series
view camera, the Ebony "U" series field cameras, and the Wehman 8x10
field cameras have asymmetric movements (Sinar P on both, the Wehman
and Ebony on the rear). Asymmetric movements are much easier to set up
and frequently require only 1 iteration per movement (swing, tilt) for
typical landscape scenes. I'm not talking about using the Sinar
scales, etc, just focusing on the swing or tilt point and moving the
other side of the standard to finish.

Steve

In 1998 at Photokina Camdynamics showed a prototype of a fully
automatic, fully computerized view camera, the CD-1, that did exactly
what the OP was looking for. It was also supposed to be available in non
automated, non computerized versions as well that could later be
upgraded. Sizes were 4x5, 8x10 and 11x14.

They also showed prototypes at later Photokinas. Last we heard they were
developing software to replace a center filter. They are not listed as
an exhibitor at this year's Photokina.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.

In article ,
(Steve Hamley) wrote:

"Captain Blammo" wrote in message
...
Captain, I think you might get a lot from a software simulation of VC
controls. Unfortunately, I have no pointers to such.

I no doubt would. I have no trouble understanding the principles, but I
find
that if I know exactly where I want to place the plane of sharp focus, it
is
very difficult for me to get it right on the mark, especially at high
levels
of swing/tilt.

Often when I swing, the subject moves out of the plane until I can refocus,
whereupon the angle changes, so I adjust the swing, refocus, rinse, repeat
until it's right. I find this a bit cumbersome. Keeping the plane of sharp
focus sharp whilst moving it around would be very helpful.

So I take it that you guys can all place the plane of sharp focus anywhere
you want it with good precision then? If so, pointers on how to pick up the
knack would be appreciated. I've read up on the Scheimpflug and hinge
rules,
but I find they're too finicky to predict just by looking at a scene with
any useable accuracy.

Ewan


"Often when I swing, the subject moves out of the plane until I can
refocus,
whereupon the angle changes, so I adjust the swing, refocus, rinse,
repeat
until it's right. I find this a bit cumbersome. Keeping the plane of
sharp
focus sharp whilst moving it around would be very helpful."

Ewan,

I suggest picking up Jack Dykinga's book, "Large Format Nature
Photography". He explains how to do the move-focus iteration, which is
a characteristic of symmetric movement view cameras.

But there is an alternative, although few of them. The Sinar P series
view camera, the Ebony "U" series field cameras, and the Wehman 8x10
field cameras have asymmetric movements (Sinar P on both, the Wehman
and Ebony on the rear). Asymmetric movements are much easier to set up
and frequently require only 1 iteration per movement (swing, tilt) for
typical landscape scenes. I'm not talking about using the Sinar
scales, etc, just focusing on the swing or tilt point and moving the
other side of the standard to finish.

Steve

In 1998 at Photokina Camdynamics showed a prototype of a fully
automatic, fully computerized view camera, the CD-1, that did exactly
what the OP was looking for. It was also supposed to be available in non
automated, non computerized versions as well that could later be
upgraded. Sizes were 4x5, 8x10 and 11x14.

They also showed prototypes at later Photokinas. Last we heard they were
developing software to replace a center filter. They are not listed as
an exhibitor at this year's Photokina.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.

"Captain Blammo" wrote

I've read up on the Scheimpflug and hinge rules,
but I find they're too finicky to predict just by looking at a scene with
any useable accuracy.

Er, what are you taking pictures of?

Try standing to the side, about 5 feet away, and looking at the camera and
scene. You may find it easier to see where the film and subject planes
intersect. For the simplest case, a flat landscape, make a mark on the ground
directly below the film back and then tilt the front so that you can sight
down the lensboard to the mark on the ground.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

"jjs" wrote in message
...
"Leonard Evens" wrote in message
...

If you are good at math and physics, you might look at my essay

http://www.math.northwestern.edu/~le.../dof_essay.pdf

Thanks for that. It is great to have a professional mathematician and
scholar here.

It might be fun if persons of other academic disciplines applied their
field
of study to the problem of VC movements. The Political Scientist: Avoid
complicating your effort with technical issues and concentrate upon your
strength. Obviate expertise in view camera movements: instead, obfuscate
the
issues by making it appear that your technique yields superior results
within the cultural context of your chosen constituency. If neccessary,
appeal to hired art scholars to fortify your case and repeat your
assertion
often with full vigor and confidence." (the Big Dummies Big Lie Approach).

It's easier to cast aspersions on a field I do not really understand.
(That's a recursive comment.)



Hmmm, I've been a risk consultant (all about probability and impact) and
worked in econometrics - wonder what I should take from there for the
calculation of tilts? Design a really complex methodology that 'probably'
works, and then blame 'localised variables' when it never does, I suppose.

(Also been an archaeologist, artists' model, lumberjack, pork pie packer,
supermarket shelf filler, bodyguard... oh, and a photographer, but that one
certainly ain't relevant.)



Peter

jjs wrote:
"Leonard Evens" wrote in message
...


If you are good at math and physics, you might look at my essay

http://www.math.northwestern.edu/~le.../dof_essay.pdf


Thanks for that. It is great to have a professional mathematician and
scholar here.

It might be fun if persons of other academic disciplines applied their field
of study to the problem of VC movements. The Political Scientist: Avoid
complicating your effort with technical issues and concentrate upon your
strength. Obviate expertise in view camera movements: instead, obfuscate the
issues by making it appear that your technique yields superior results
within the cultural context of your chosen constituency. If neccessary,
appeal to hired art scholars to fortify your case and repeat your assertion
often with full vigor and confidence." (the Big Dummies Big Lie Approach).

It's easier to cast aspersions on a field I do not really understand.
(That's a recursive comment.)

Well, you said it yourself.

If you look at the original post, he told us he was good at math and
physics. For such a person, using a quantitative approach might be
helpful. I certainly don't insist that everyone has to use such an
approach. But after all, optics is physics, and a certain amount of
mathematics enters. Without all that, no one would have been able to
design all those marvelous cameras we use.

Needless to say, having such knowledge doesn't make me a better
photographer than someone else who doesn't have it. But why does it
bother you so much that someone might understand these things at a level
you don't want to approach?