Intelligent View Cams

Does anyone know of any view cameras out there that would allow you to
adjust the plane of focus directly, as opposed to adjusting the controls
that affect the plane of focus?

What I mean is that instead of applying, say, front swing, you would be able
to rotate the plane of focus 35 degrees left and bring it back 5 feet,
whilst the camera automatically kept the image framed about the same, and
tried to keep the DOF as you set it.

I gather the Sinar p3 has motors on it, does it offer any control of this
sort through software?

Perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree here, but it seems that it would make
the process of moving the plane of sharp focus around far easier. I'm only
just getting into view cams, so perhaps I'll get over the initial hump of
geometric visualisation, but I think it would ease the process even for
experienced users.

Ewan

"Captain Blammo" wrote

Does anyone know of any view cameras out there that would allow you to
adjust the plane of focus directly, as opposed to adjusting the controls
that affect the plane of focus?

Sinar made one 10(?) years ago. All sorts of encoders and stepping motors
and cables and interface boxes all tied into a PC. $35K I think.

I don't know if they ever sold one. The only application would be table-top
product photography.

What I mean is that instead of applying, say, front swing, you would be able
to rotate the plane of focus 35 degrees left and bring it back 5 feet,
whilst the camera automatically kept the image framed about the same, and
tried to keep the DOF as you set it.

For ordinary subjects you will find you use very little movement. So little
that micrometer drives are a real convenience feature. You will most likely
never need 35 degrees worth.

Setting up a view camera is easy to do and takes almost no experience.
Learn it all in one afternoon.

It would take the same afternoon just to get the above mentioned compu-Sinar
(or whatever it was called) all plugged in and zeroed out.

FWIW, Even plain-old manual Sinar's have all sorts of scales on them for
figuring tilt and swing and depth of field.
- However -
In contests with two photographers, one with a full-dress Sinar and the other on
a wood-field (or equiv), the one using the uncalibrated camera will be set
up and have the shot made while the one with the Sinar is still examining scales
and scratching his head.

However, when doing table top shots with the camera all in a pretzel, the Sinar
will
be easier to set up.

I'll get over the initial hump of geometric visualization

You will need the geometric visualization, but just to make sure you tilt
or swing in the right direction and put the standards at kinda the right
place - not hard to do.

but I think [a computer] would ease the process even for experienced users.

So far no soap. Maybe sometime in the future with a 3-D digital back ... but
then it wouldn't be a view camera and it won't be large format.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

"Captain Blammo" wrote

Does anyone know of any view cameras out there that would allow you to
adjust the plane of focus directly, as opposed to adjusting the controls
that affect the plane of focus?

Sinar made one 10(?) years ago. All sorts of encoders and stepping motors
and cables and interface boxes all tied into a PC. $35K I think.

I don't know if they ever sold one. The only application would be table-top
product photography.

What I mean is that instead of applying, say, front swing, you would be able
to rotate the plane of focus 35 degrees left and bring it back 5 feet,
whilst the camera automatically kept the image framed about the same, and
tried to keep the DOF as you set it.

For ordinary subjects you will find you use very little movement. So little
that micrometer drives are a real convenience feature. You will most likely
never need 35 degrees worth.

Setting up a view camera is easy to do and takes almost no experience.
Learn it all in one afternoon.

It would take the same afternoon just to get the above mentioned compu-Sinar
(or whatever it was called) all plugged in and zeroed out.

FWIW, Even plain-old manual Sinar's have all sorts of scales on them for
figuring tilt and swing and depth of field.
- However -
In contests with two photographers, one with a full-dress Sinar and the other on
a wood-field (or equiv), the one using the uncalibrated camera will be set
up and have the shot made while the one with the Sinar is still examining scales
and scratching his head.

However, when doing table top shots with the camera all in a pretzel, the Sinar
will
be easier to set up.

I'll get over the initial hump of geometric visualization

You will need the geometric visualization, but just to make sure you tilt
or swing in the right direction and put the standards at kinda the right
place - not hard to do.

but I think [a computer] would ease the process even for experienced users.

So far no soap. Maybe sometime in the future with a 3-D digital back ... but
then it wouldn't be a view camera and it won't be large format.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

"Captain Blammo" wrote

Does anyone know of any view cameras out there that would allow you to
adjust the plane of focus directly, as opposed to adjusting the controls
that affect the plane of focus?

Sinar made one 10(?) years ago. All sorts of encoders and stepping motors
and cables and interface boxes all tied into a PC. $35K I think.

I don't know if they ever sold one. The only application would be table-top
product photography.

What I mean is that instead of applying, say, front swing, you would be able
to rotate the plane of focus 35 degrees left and bring it back 5 feet,
whilst the camera automatically kept the image framed about the same, and
tried to keep the DOF as you set it.

For ordinary subjects you will find you use very little movement. So little
that micrometer drives are a real convenience feature. You will most likely
never need 35 degrees worth.

Setting up a view camera is easy to do and takes almost no experience.
Learn it all in one afternoon.

It would take the same afternoon just to get the above mentioned compu-Sinar
(or whatever it was called) all plugged in and zeroed out.

FWIW, Even plain-old manual Sinar's have all sorts of scales on them for
figuring tilt and swing and depth of field.
- However -
In contests with two photographers, one with a full-dress Sinar and the other on
a wood-field (or equiv), the one using the uncalibrated camera will be set
up and have the shot made while the one with the Sinar is still examining scales
and scratching his head.

However, when doing table top shots with the camera all in a pretzel, the Sinar
will
be easier to set up.

I'll get over the initial hump of geometric visualization

You will need the geometric visualization, but just to make sure you tilt
or swing in the right direction and put the standards at kinda the right
place - not hard to do.

but I think [a computer] would ease the process even for experienced users.

So far no soap. Maybe sometime in the future with a 3-D digital back ... but
then it wouldn't be a view camera and it won't be large format.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

Captain, I think you might get a lot from a software simulation of VC
controls. Unfortunately, I have no pointers to such.

"Nicholas O. Lindan" wrote in message link.net...
"Captain Blammo" wrote

Does anyone know of any view cameras out there that would allow you to
adjust the plane of focus directly, as opposed to adjusting the controls
that affect the plane of focus?

Sinar made one 10(?) years ago. All sorts of encoders and stepping motors
and cables and interface boxes all tied into a PC. $35K I think.

BTW, In a discussion of tilts & swings, I read, where someone said
something to the effect: from drawing rays in high school, I know...
(this or that). My question is where can I find the basic topic of
drawing rays? I have no recollection what so ever of "drawing rays"?
Math, physics, & science in general were my best topics in school.
(God knows as any reader of my posts can tell, English wasn't. Thank
god for spell check & computers) And yet I have no familiarity w/
drawing rays. Where can I find this topic?

Thanks, John

I don't know if they ever sold one. The only application would be table-top
product photography.

What I mean is that instead of applying, say, front swing, you would be able
to rotate the plane of focus 35 degrees left and bring it back 5 feet,
whilst the camera automatically kept the image framed about the same, and
tried to keep the DOF as you set it.

For ordinary subjects you will find you use very little movement. So little
that micrometer drives are a real convenience feature. You will most likely
never need 35 degrees worth.

Setting up a view camera is easy to do and takes almost no experience.
Learn it all in one afternoon.

It would take the same afternoon just to get the above mentioned compu-Sinar
(or whatever it was called) all plugged in and zeroed out.

FWIW, Even plain-old manual Sinar's have all sorts of scales on them for
figuring tilt and swing and depth of field.
- However -
In contests with two photographers, one with a full-dress Sinar and the other on
a wood-field (or equiv), the one using the uncalibrated camera will be set
up and have the shot made while the one with the Sinar is still examining scales
and scratching his head.

However, when doing table top shots with the camera all in a pretzel, the Sinar
will
be easier to set up.

I'll get over the initial hump of geometric visualization

You will need the geometric visualization, but just to make sure you tilt
or swing in the right direction and put the standards at kinda the right
place - not hard to do.

but I think [a computer] would ease the process even for experienced users.

So far no soap. Maybe sometime in the future with a 3-D digital back ... but
then it wouldn't be a view camera and it won't be large format.

"Nicholas O. Lindan" wrote in message link.net...
"Captain Blammo" wrote

Does anyone know of any view cameras out there that would allow you to
adjust the plane of focus directly, as opposed to adjusting the controls
that affect the plane of focus?

Sinar made one 10(?) years ago. All sorts of encoders and stepping motors
and cables and interface boxes all tied into a PC. $35K I think.

BTW, In a discussion of tilts & swings, I read, where someone said
something to the effect: from drawing rays in high school, I know...
(this or that). My question is where can I find the basic topic of
drawing rays? I have no recollection what so ever of "drawing rays"?
Math, physics, & science in general were my best topics in school.
(God knows as any reader of my posts can tell, English wasn't. Thank
god for spell check & computers) And yet I have no familiarity w/
drawing rays. Where can I find this topic?

Thanks, John

I don't know if they ever sold one. The only application would be table-top
product photography.

What I mean is that instead of applying, say, front swing, you would be able
to rotate the plane of focus 35 degrees left and bring it back 5 feet,
whilst the camera automatically kept the image framed about the same, and
tried to keep the DOF as you set it.

For ordinary subjects you will find you use very little movement. So little
that micrometer drives are a real convenience feature. You will most likely
never need 35 degrees worth.

Setting up a view camera is easy to do and takes almost no experience.
Learn it all in one afternoon.

It would take the same afternoon just to get the above mentioned compu-Sinar
(or whatever it was called) all plugged in and zeroed out.

FWIW, Even plain-old manual Sinar's have all sorts of scales on them for
figuring tilt and swing and depth of field.
- However -
In contests with two photographers, one with a full-dress Sinar and the other on
a wood-field (or equiv), the one using the uncalibrated camera will be set
up and have the shot made while the one with the Sinar is still examining scales
and scratching his head.

However, when doing table top shots with the camera all in a pretzel, the Sinar
will
be easier to set up.

I'll get over the initial hump of geometric visualization

You will need the geometric visualization, but just to make sure you tilt
or swing in the right direction and put the standards at kinda the right
place - not hard to do.

but I think [a computer] would ease the process even for experienced users.

So far no soap. Maybe sometime in the future with a 3-D digital back ... but
then it wouldn't be a view camera and it won't be large format.

"John McGraw" wrote in message
om...

BTW, In a discussion of tilts & swings, I read, where someone said
something to the effect: from drawing rays in high school, I know...
(this or that). My question is where can I find the basic topic of
drawing rays? I have no recollection what so ever of "drawing rays"?
Math, physics, & science in general were my best topics in school.
(God knows as any reader of my posts can tell, English wasn't. Thank
god for spell check & computers) And yet I have no familiarity w/
drawing rays. Where can I find this topic?

We all learned ray-tracing. And hand-setting type. Kidding, but I did go
to a school where we used inkwells in the desk and inkpens, and learned
italics - never longhand.

John, I think you want to look into hand ray-tracing which generally went
out with the advent of the affordable computers.

"John McGraw" wrote in message
om...

BTW, In a discussion of tilts & swings, I read, where someone said
something to the effect: from drawing rays in high school, I know...
(this or that). My question is where can I find the basic topic of
drawing rays? I have no recollection what so ever of "drawing rays"?
Math, physics, & science in general were my best topics in school.
(God knows as any reader of my posts can tell, English wasn't. Thank
god for spell check & computers) And yet I have no familiarity w/
drawing rays. Where can I find this topic?

We all learned ray-tracing. And hand-setting type. Kidding, but I did go
to a school where we used inkwells in the desk and inkpens, and learned
italics - never longhand.

John, I think you want to look into hand ray-tracing which generally went
out with the advent of the affordable computers.

Captain, I think you might get a lot from a software simulation of VC
controls. Unfortunately, I have no pointers to such.

I no doubt would. I have no trouble understanding the principles, but I find
that if I know exactly where I want to place the plane of sharp focus, it is
very difficult for me to get it right on the mark, especially at high levels
of swing/tilt.

Often when I swing, the subject moves out of the plane until I can refocus,
whereupon the angle changes, so I adjust the swing, refocus, rinse, repeat
until it's right. I find this a bit cumbersome. Keeping the plane of sharp
focus sharp whilst moving it around would be very helpful.

So I take it that you guys can all place the plane of sharp focus anywhere
you want it with good precision then? If so, pointers on how to pick up the
knack would be appreciated. I've read up on the Scheimpflug and hinge rules,
but I find they're too finicky to predict just by looking at a scene with
any useable accuracy.

Ewan