Student camera

ColynG=A9 wrote:
Nobody should be forced to take up photography..it's something they
should want to do but learning by using automation just doesn't sound
like learning to me. It's kind of like using a calculator to do
simple
math in school.. You won't learn to do it in your head like most of
us
older people did..most kids can't even do simple math in their head.

I suggest you re-read Tony's opinion. Tony, in his nicely written
piece, nowhere advocates using the auto mode to learn. He says, with an
auto camera which also has manual modes, you have the option of
learning by turning the dial to "M" mode where the camera becomes a
fully manual beast devoid of its computer and if you don't feel like
learning then the camera is still good to use in the "A" mode.

- Siddhartha

On 12 Feb 2005 10:40:12 -0800, "Siddhartha Jain"
wrote:


Nobody should be forced to take up photography..it's something they
should want to do but learning by using automation just doesn't sound
like learning to me. It's kind of like using a calculator to do
simple
math in school.. You won't learn to do it in your head like most of
us
older people did..most kids can't even do simple math in their head.

I suggest you re-read Tony's opinion. Tony, in his nicely written
piece, nowhere advocates using the auto mode to learn. He says, with an
auto camera which also has manual modes, you have the option of
learning by turning the dial to "M" mode where the camera becomes a
fully manual beast devoid of its computer and if you don't feel like
learning then the camera is still good to use in the "A" mode.

- Siddhartha

Actually I was not referring to Tony's opinion of which I agree. I was
giving my own opinion..and yes I do use the auto feature on my
Minoltas from time to time..



Colyn Goodson
http://home.swbell.net/colyng
http://www.colyngoodson.com

Is Force Necessary?
I presume you are taking up photography voluntarily. At least I haven't
heard of anyone being compelled to learn photography on pain of
imprisonment, or loss of life. Why does one need to be forced into
doing what one already wants to do? You will either learn the
principles of photography, which can be done as easily with an
auto-matic camera that allows manual setting as it can with a manual
camera, or you will not learn the principles of photography. If you
choose not to learn, the auto-camera will still be usable as a fine
point and shoot.
---snip end--------

You have a point, but there is symbolic significance in buying a fully
manual camera, which psychologically might be more beneficicial for some
people learning. A bit like learning to ski by being pushed down a blue
slope - it's going to be painful, but you're going to learn quickly!

Duncan.

Duncan J Murray wrote:
You have a point, but there is symbolic significance in buying a
fully
manual camera, which psychologically might be more beneficicial for
some
people learning. A bit like learning to ski by being pushed down a
blue
slope - it's going to be painful, but you're going to learn quickly!

I would've agreed with you when I was new to my SLR. Initially, I would
always shoot in the "A" mode with my Canon 300D. I would set it to "M"
before a shoot and quickly go back to "A" when I found the going
difficult. But over the last two months, I have gotten rid of the "A"
mode completely as I have become more and more comfortable with the
controls. Now my camera stays in the "M" mode and rarely even comes to
"Tv" or "Av" or "P" even. I wouldn't dare to say I've mastered it but I
can safely say that I don't fear ruining shots and don't turn to "A"
for *saving* them. But, I agree, your mileage may vary.

- Siddhartha

"ColynG©" wrote in message
...

Why are some of the best film cameras such as the Minolta SRT's,
Nikkormat's, Canon F-series, etc called student cameras??


Well, considering the Nikkormat goes used for anywhere from $79 to $150,
it's very affordable, and relatively durable. Probably the same is true of
the others as well. And students, you see, prioritize beer above other
items, so the cameras have to be cheap...

--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com

"Siddhartha Jain" wrote in message
oups.com...
Duncan J Murray wrote:
You have a point, but there is symbolic significance in buying a
fully
manual camera, which psychologically might be more beneficicial for
some
people learning. A bit like learning to ski by being pushed down a
blue
slope - it's going to be painful, but you're going to learn quickly!

I would've agreed with you when I was new to my SLR. Initially, I would
always shoot in the "A" mode with my Canon 300D. I would set it to "M"
before a shoot and quickly go back to "A" when I found the going
difficult. But over the last two months, I have gotten rid of the "A"
mode completely as I have become more and more comfortable with the
controls. Now my camera stays in the "M" mode and rarely even comes to
"Tv" or "Av" or "P" even. I wouldn't dare to say I've mastered it but I
can safely say that I don't fear ruining shots and don't turn to "A"
for *saving* them. But, I agree, your mileage may vary.

- Siddhartha

A lot also depends on who you are, and how well do you know yourself. I
bought my "does everything Nikon" when I was 68 years old. At that stage, I
was well aware of who I was, and what I wanted. I knew that sooner or later,
I was going to learn everything about the machine, and how to use it in all
modes. I have done just that, but I still, from time to time, use it on full
program mode as a point and shoot. Since I am not a pro, it is basically a
toy for me to play with, and the more bells and whistles it has, the more
fun I am going to get out of it.

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:40:12 -0800, Siddhartha Jain wrote:

ColynG© wrote:
Nobody should be forced to take up photography..it's something they
should want to do but learning by using automation just doesn't sound
like learning to me. It's kind of like using a calculator to do
simple
math in school.. You won't learn to do it in your head like most of
us
older people did..most kids can't even do simple math in their head.

I suggest you re-read Tony's opinion. Tony, in his nicely written
piece, nowhere advocates using the auto mode to learn. He says, with an
auto camera which also has manual modes, you have the option of
learning by turning the dial to "M" mode where the camera becomes a
fully manual beast devoid of its computer and if you don't feel like
learning then the camera is still good to use in the "A" mode.

- Siddhartha

I have advocated a similar opinion in the past, but lately I am
re-thinking that opinion.

How many people who have auto-focus cameras with AE actually use them in
manual mode? I don't know any.

I currently own and use 5 SLR's, namely the Nikon D70, Nikon F4s, Nikon
F2, Canon F-1N and a Leica R4. Looking at the photos I have taken over the
past year or so, I would have to say that my personal favourites have all
been taken with the Canon F-1N (with a 50mm f/1.8 lens this has become my
favourite camera to take around with me) and the Nikon F2 with many
different lenses.

The reason?

I find that using a manual focus camera forces me to slow down and think
about what I am doing. When I shoot with my two AF cameras I barely give
thought to anything other than the aperture I am shooting. The results are
mostly snapshots that end up either in the recycle bin (D70) or as
unprinted slides and negatives.

I learned a lot about photography using a DSLR, but the transference of
that knowledge to manual photography has resulted in better pictures for
me.

I only hope that whatever happens in the industry, I will be able to buy
and process 35mm film for my manual cameras until I am no longer able to
take photos.

--
Save photography - shoot a roll of film today!

"m II" wrote in message
news:wZgPd.45142$gA4.41707@edtnps89...
ColynG© wrote:
Good question. I suspect it's a cheap subliminal trick to get a
prospective customer to upgrade. I've been longing for a completely
manual 35mm for a while now. No meter, no frills..even a 42 mm thread
mount is fine. I'd like excellent build quality, something that will
outlive me by a few years. A machined out of billet aluminium frame
would be nice, as would a top speed of say, 1/6000 of a second.

All that for under three hundred bucks.

I'd carry a good meter, or course. Last
week a friend gave me a nice Ricoh Singlex II. Even the stop-down meter
works. It has a titanium shutter, and feels like mostly brass. Very heavy;
no need for a motor drive to add weight. Bad news is the 35 f2.8 screw mt.
that's on it doesn't appear to be coated. But the 35 f2.8 Rikonon K Mt.
which I keep on my Pentax KM, most definately is. Very easy to use and
surprisingly quiet, although not as smooth as the old Pentaxes. I also have
2 or 3 XR-1s and 2s, which are also fun, but after that, they start to feel
too light, so I don't care for them as much.
Bob Hickey

"Roxy Durban" wrote in message
news

I have advocated a similar opinion in the past, but lately I am
re-thinking that opinion.

How many people who have auto-focus cameras with AE actually use them in
manual mode? I don't know any.

I currently own and use 5 SLR's, namely the Nikon D70, Nikon F4s, Nikon
F2, Canon F-1N and a Leica R4. Looking at the photos I have taken over the
past year or so, I would have to say that my personal favourites have all
been taken with the Canon F-1N (with a 50mm f/1.8 lens this has become my
favourite camera to take around with me) and the Nikon F2 with many
different lenses.

The reason?

I find that using a manual focus camera forces me to slow down and think
about what I am doing. When I shoot with my two AF cameras I barely give
thought to anything other than the aperture I am shooting. The results are
mostly snapshots that end up either in the recycle bin (D70) or as
unprinted slides and negatives.

Save photography - shoot a roll of film today! Funny, but my
experience has been just the opposite. A few years ago, I bought a Pentax
ZX-30. At 63 yeays of age, I'm not what you'd call fleet of foot, but this
thing was so slow, I could feel my beard grow. Horrible camera. Even with
everything turned off, it was still annoyingly lethargic. Strangely, I made
$50 when I sold it on ebay. One never know.
Bob Hickey

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
. ..

Why not? Something has to be reasonably unautomated, simple, relatively
low
price and functional. Can call it anything you like, really.

You left out the ubiquitous student camera: K1000.

Cheers,
Alan

By far. And the Chinese K-1000 is prolly the worst of the Pentaxes
of that time and now the most expensive used. Might be the best selling
ever; but I think the Canon AE-1 gets that. Never liked that one either.
Bob Hickey