Sunny 16 and what else?

In article ,
says...
Peter Irwin wrote:

The sunny f/16 rule is very reliable for conditions where it
applies: at least two hours after sunrise or before sunset,
and under bright sky conditions. It is pretty much useless
in early morning, late evening or under grey skies.


As you are making definitive statements about this "rule", and you
seem to think you know how it operates, perhaps you can tell me why it
doesn't work in the UK, where "sunny f/11" is a better approximation?



If you look at the exposure charts that Kodak sometimes packs with the
film (usually on the inside of the box) you will see that there are
other exposure "rules" for different lighting conditions. Even the
f16 rule is modified when shooting with sidelight or when there
are strong shadows. In those cases even Kodak suggests f11 or f8.
I do a lot of shooting with a camera without a builtin meter. And
quite frequently I just set it from experience. I double check with
a small meter when the lighting conditions seem unusual.

--
Robert D Feinman
Landscapes, Cityscapes and Panoramic Photographs
http://robertdfeinman.com
mail:

In article ,
TP wrote:
Peter Irwin wrote:

The sunny f/16 rule is very reliable for conditions where it
applies: at least two hours after sunrise or before sunset,
and under bright sky conditions. It is pretty much useless
in early morning, late evening or under grey skies.


As you are making definitive statements about this "rule", and you
seem to think you know how it operates, perhaps you can tell me why it
doesn't work in the UK, where "sunny f/11" is a better approximation?

I was out shooting yesterday a few miles north of Cambridge in the UK, in
bright sunshine. Sunny f/16 was pretty much spot-on. Working to a "Sunny
f/11" rule would have resulted in overexposure.

TP wrote:
Peter Irwin wrote:

The sunny f/16 rule is very reliable for conditions where it
applies: at least two hours after sunrise or before sunset,
and under bright sky conditions. It is pretty much useless
in early morning, late evening or under grey skies.


As you are making definitive statements about this "rule", and you
seem to think you know how it operates, perhaps you can tell me why it
doesn't work in the UK, where "sunny f/11" is a better approximation?

Mostly because don't often have really clear days. Even where I am
(Toronto, Canada) sunny f/16 is generally optimistic by 1/3 stop
according to my Sekonic lightmeter.

The most complete version of the Sunny f/16 rule that I have seen
is in the exposure tables in the Focal Encycopedia of Photography
(at least my 1969 edition). The tables come from British Standard
No. 935:1948.

If you are using the sunny f/16 rule, it is a good idea to rate
negative films at an EI of half the ISO speed.

Peter.
--

Chris Brown wrote:
In article ,
TP wrote:
Peter Irwin wrote:

The sunny f/16 rule is very reliable for conditions where it
applies: at least two hours after sunrise or before sunset,
and under bright sky conditions. It is pretty much useless
in early morning, late evening or under grey skies.


As you are making definitive statements about this "rule", and you
seem to think you know how it operates, perhaps you can tell me why it
doesn't work in the UK, where "sunny f/11" is a better approximation?

I was out shooting yesterday a few miles north of Cambridge in the UK, in
bright sunshine. Sunny f/16 was pretty much spot-on. Working to a "Sunny
f/11" rule would have resulted in overexposure.


sunny cambridge? thats almost like saying that the thuimb of rule for
shooting under only moonlight doesn't work during lunar eclipses ;-)

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

Peter Irwin wrote in message ...
Mike Henley wrote:

David's suggestion of the Sekonic L-208 twinmate is good. I have
that meter and I like it a lot.

Does this mean no one uses "eyeball metering"?

I found this from a circa 1970 Popular photograph article on low light
photography:

bright sun lit snow f22
bright sun lit f16
hazy sun f11
light overcast f8
heavy overcast f5.6
dark shadow f4
office lit 1/60 f2.8
bright room 1/60 f2
average room 1/30 f2
sky at sunset 1/60 f8
floodlit area 1/30 f8
neon sign 1/30 f8
stadiums 1/125 f2.8
storewindow 1/125 f2.8
streetscene 1/60 f2.8
amusement park 1/30 f2.8
firelit 1/8 f4
candlelit 1/8 f2.8
reflection 1/15 f2
lit building 1/15 f2
xmas light 1/2 f4
freeway 1/2 f2.8
startrails 20min f16
fireworks any f16
lightning any f11
cityscape:
jewel effect 1/30 f2.8
detail 2sec f2.8
moonlit:
snowscape 40sec f2.8
landscape 100sec f2.8

--
Dominic Richens |
"If you're not *outraged*, you're not paying attention!"

"Sabineellen" wrote in message
...

OK... i found this...

http://www.fujifilm.com/JSP/fuji/epa...n/AF3-009E.pdf

Has anyone found this reliable to use without a lightmeter? I understand
this
is only an approximation, but how well does it work?

"Dominic Richens" wrote in message
...
I found this from a circa 1970 Popular photograph article on low light
photography:

bright sun lit snow f22
bright sun lit f16
hazy sun f11
light overcast f8
heavy overcast f5.6
dark shadow f4
office lit 1/60 f2.8
bright room 1/60 f2
average room 1/30 f2
sky at sunset 1/60 f8
floodlit area 1/30 f8
neon sign 1/30 f8
stadiums 1/125 f2.8
storewindow 1/125 f2.8
streetscene 1/60 f2.8
amusement park 1/30 f2.8
firelit 1/8 f4
candlelit 1/8 f2.8
reflection 1/15 f2
lit building 1/15 f2
xmas light 1/2 f4
freeway 1/2 f2.8
startrails 20min f16
fireworks any f16
lightning any f11
cityscape:
jewel effect 1/30 f2.8
detail 2sec f2.8
moonlit:
snowscape 40sec f2.8
landscape 100sec f2.8

I presume these combinations are all at ISO 100?

Mike Henley wrote:
Peter Irwin wrote in message ...
Mike Henley wrote:

David's suggestion of the Sekonic L-208 twinmate is good. I have
that meter and I like it a lot.

Does this mean no one uses "eyeball metering"?

I use exposure estimation quite a bit, but I also normally carry
an exposure meter. Under some conditions, I know what the meter
will say before I check it: under other conditions (early morning,
late evening, grey skies, unfamilliar interiors) the light meter
is a practical necessity.

Peter.
--

Does this mean no one uses "eyeball metering"?

Any exposure over 2 seconds is my best guess.

RP©
-
Experience is one thing you can't get for nothing.

- Oscar Wilde

Peter Irwin wrote in message ...
Mike Henley wrote:

David's suggestion of the Sekonic L-208 twinmate is good. I have
that meter and I like it a lot

What about this one?

http://www.firstcall-photographic.co...p?partno=26034

BTW, how would using this external meter and a mechanical camera (like
an olympus rc) compare to using a more modern camera that allows
manual override but has a built-in meter?