Will digital photography ever stabilize?

"Rodney Myrvaagnes" wrote in message

What makes nearly all electronics get cheaper is the process shrinking
that makes equivalent functions take up smaller silicon areas.
Unfortunately you can't shrink an APS sized (or 35-mm sized) sensor.


That's not the only thing--manufacturing efficiency and costs improve, too,
with improved technology and economies of scale. Sensors for, say, 3MP
cameras (and the cameras themselves) have dropped in cost by a factor of 2
or 3 in a couple of years even though the sensor size has remained the same.

Mark

Tim - I think the time that digital cameras "that have to be replaced"
is over - today's digital cameras are awesome. I bought my first
digital camera in 1999 - the first Sony Mavica, it's 0.3 megapixel
resolution wasn't great but I liked the convenience of digital. 1 1/2
years later I bought a 1.3 megapixel Mavica and was blown away by the
improvement in image clarity. 1 1/2 years later I bought the Sony DSC
707 5 megapixel and was even more blown away with the improvements.
Well its almost 2 years later and I've been checking out the latest
digicams and I'm not getting blown away anymore, these cameras are
only incrementally better. I'm planning on keeping the F707 for a long
time because it takes awesome pictures !! So go ahead and buy
something you like, I think it will serve you well for years.

Mick



wrote in message hlink.net...
Hi all:


Question is, is this the wave of the future? Cameras of so-so quality that
cost hundreds of dollars that have to be replaced every few years? Or are we
in a transitional moment when this new technology is growing very fast and
will stabilize someday?


Thanks for your advice.

Tim

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 22:38:45 -0400, "Mark Weaver"
wrote:


"Rodney Myrvaagnes" wrote in message

What makes nearly all electronics get cheaper is the process shrinking
that makes equivalent functions take up smaller silicon areas.
Unfortunately you can't shrink an APS sized (or 35-mm sized) sensor.


That's not the only thing--manufacturing efficiency and costs improve, too,
with improved technology and economies of scale. Sensors for, say, 3MP
cameras (and the cameras themselves) have dropped in cost by a factor of 2
or 3 in a couple of years even though the sensor size has remained the same.

True enough, but those are very small sensors, where the defect
density is not so important.



Rodney Myrvaagnes Opinionated old geezer

Brutal dictators are routinely reelected by 90+%
margins. Only in a truly advanced democracy can
one win an election by a negative 600,000 votes.

"Philip Homburg" wrote in message
.phicoh.net...
[]
Other than that, I doubt that many DSLR owners want video chips as
sensors.
Most people prefer low noise to weird folding preview LCD thingies.

It sounds as if you've never used a swivel LCD finder, and therefore may
not appreciate the benefits.

Cheers,
David

Mark Weaver responds:

That's not the only thing--manufacturing efficiency and costs improve, too,
with improved technology and economies of scale. Sensors for, say, 3MP
cameras (and the cameras themselves) have dropped in cost by a factor of 2
or 3 in a couple of years even though the sensor size has remained the same.

Yes. When I first started shooting digital, I was using a Sony Mavica that had
a floppy disk as memory. That was a company camera, and I don't really know
what it cost...not big bucks for a corporation, but enough to keep me away. A
year or 2 later, I got an Olympus C2020. If memory serves, I paid almost $1000
for that including a second, larger (64 MB) card and a slip-into the
floppy-slot card reader. Two years ago (minus a month or so) I bought a Minolta
7i, for $815, delivered. Add in a couple cards and you're still very close to
1000 bucks. But the differences are obvious: the 7i is a 5 MP with noisy upper
ISO ranges, but it is capable of turning out a clean photo at lower ISO ranges
than the 2 MP 2020 (though I do believe the Olympus had better glass, something
I can't check because I long ago sold that camera). It also allows easier
manual focusing, a much wider zoom range, and several other improvements.
Price? Essentially the same. My next purchase will be a DSLR, probably one in
the $1300 range, with a 3 to 1 zoom of decent quality included. The feature set
grows. If I wanted to wait long enough, that camera/lens combo would drop under
a grand, too, as it is replaced by newer models.

It is probably well to remember, too, that manufacturers want you to jump on
their lower cost DSLRs for a simple reason: once you've invested in 3 lenses
and a dedicated flash, the odds are superb that you'll never change brands.
Body upgrades will come along, and, if they suit and are cost effective, you'll
buy. Body upgrades in competing brands will also come along, but the cost to
swap is very high, so you stick with your original brand, even though it's
dragging its feet with the next upgrade that you sorely need (or want).

Charlie Self
"It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has descended from
man."
H. L. Mencken

"Jimmy Smith" wrote in message . ..

PS IMHO, a fold out LCD on a DSLR would be a gross insult. Kinda like
chrome bumpers on a Porsche. icky

A bit like these you mean?
http://hometown.aol.com/por356man/356coupe61black1.jpg
http://hometown.aol.com/por356man/side1.jpg

"David J Taylor" writes:

"Philip Homburg" wrote in message
.phicoh.net...
[]
Other than that, I doubt that many DSLR owners want video chips as
sensors. Most people prefer low noise to weird folding preview LCD
thingies.

It sounds as if you've never used a swivel LCD finder, and therefore may
not appreciate the benefits.

In some ways I feel that I appreciate the benefits particularly
strongly *because* I've never used one :-).

(I have used a camera with live LCD preview, though; the screen was
just fixed flat to the back of the camera, it didn't have the ability
to lean out in various directions.)
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

"David Dyer-Bennet" wrote in message
...
[]
In some ways I feel that I appreciate the benefits particularly
strongly *because* I've never used one :-).

(I have used a camera with live LCD preview, though; the screen was
just fixed flat to the back of the camera, it didn't have the ability
to lean out in various directions.)
--
David Dyer-Bennet

I've used both the swivel body (Nikon 990 etc.) and swivel LCD style of
camera. The swivel body comes into its own in two circumstances

- taking photos at conferences, concerts etc. where you can place the
camera on the desk or table in front of you and get near tripod stability
for 1/4s exposures. Of course, it requires the subject to be still for
that length of time as well. You can often take photos inside restaurants
this way as well, you just need a flat surface. Use the self-timer delay
for even greater stability.

- outdoors at night, where you can place to body on a flat wall or
railing, and swivel the lens to frame the subject. Again, the self-timer
helps.

The swivel LCD can help:

- in macro photography, when the camera is almost on the ground, and you
need the equivalent of a right-angle finder to view vertically down

- if you are taking photos to the left or right of you and not wishing to
attract attention - like the 45 degree mirror adaptors that were once
sold.

Both formats can help if you need "over the heads of the crowd" photos.
Being of shorter than average height, I tend to use this quite a lot! For
what I take, I would guess that 80% of the time I use the EVF on the Nikon
5700 just like an SLR finder (with the LCD folded into its protected
position - screen towards camera body), but the other 20% are shots that I
would otherwise miss.

Cheers,
David

In article ,
David J Taylor wrote:
"Philip Homburg" wrote in message
q.phicoh.net...
[]
Other than that, I doubt that many DSLR owners want video chips as
sensors.
Most people prefer low noise to weird folding preview LCD thingies.

It sounds as if you've never used a swivel LCD finder, and therefore may
not appreciate the benefits.

Even for my film SLR bodies, I would like to have a view finder with a
miniature camera and a (wireless) connection to an LCD screen. I have no
problem in that direction.

But I don't want to lose any performance of the main sensor to provide a
live preview. And I don't want the screen to be attached to the camera.

I don't have any experience with digital camera with swivel LCD finders,
but video camera have had movable finders for years. In many cases,
a finder that is attached to the camera is not convenient.




--
The Electronic Monk was a labor-saving device, like a dishwasher or a video
recorder. [...] Video recorders watched tedious television for you, thus saving
you the bother of looking at it yourself; Electronic Monks believed things for
you, [...] -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

"Philip Homburg" wrote in message
.phicoh.net...
[]
Even for my film SLR bodies, I would like to have a view finder with a
miniature camera and a (wireless) connection to an LCD screen. I have no
problem in that direction.

I like that idea, either as an LCD finder or perhaps as an EVF which could
be worn like glasses.....

But I don't want to lose any performance of the main sensor to provide a
live preview. And I don't want the screen to be attached to the camera.

I accept your performance comment, although I am actually happy with the
compromise (I am not waiting for a full-frame 35mm sensor or anything like
that, I think that half-frame or smaller is quite good enough and I much
prefer the more compact, light-weight optics the smaller sensor makes
possible).

I don't have any experience with digital camera with swivel LCD finders,
but video camera have had movable finders for years. In many cases,
a finder that is attached to the camera is not convenient.

But I would think it would be useful to be able to park the LCD on the
camera, either with the screen visible (as per many existing cameras) or
with the screen towards the camera in a protectively parked position.

Cheers,
David