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#1
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A question for Applefans
On 09/09/2015 02:58, Tony Cooper wrote:
My iPhone and iPad are charged using a plug and cable combination. Each uses a different cable with a different-size fitting that plugs into the device. Both style cables use the same wall-plug device. What is the reason for the two different fittings? Both are obtaining and converting power from the same wall plug. It seems to me that Apple is just doing the printer ink scam and adding an extra product to sell when replacements are needed. 21st century problems... Connector problems that annoy the crap out of me date back to the 19th and 20th century - and should have been replaced long ago: The 19th century 1/4" phono plug, and subsequent 3.5 and 2.5mm miniature versions. Quick and easy on a telephone switchboard back in the 1800s, an abomination ever since, especially on mobile devices. The 20th century 12v auto "cigarette lighter/accessory socket". Surely car-makers could have agreed on some alternative standard 1/2 century ago. The 20th century "coaxial/barrel" DC power connector, usually on wall-wart power supply/charger. Not only comes in a zillion different sizes of external barrel diameter and internal hole size, but to top it off, adapters with the same voltage and identical plug size can come with reversed polarity. |
#2
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A question for Applefans
In article , Me
wrote: 21st century problems... Connector problems that annoy the crap out of me date back to the 19th and 20th century - and should have been replaced long ago: The 19th century 1/4" phono plug, and subsequent 3.5 and 2.5mm miniature versions. Quick and easy on a telephone switchboard back in the 1800s, an abomination ever since, especially on mobile devices. why do you say that? they work just fine. the only issue is when a plug goes beyond ts/trs, because trrs and especially trrrs are nonstandard. however, that's a problem with any custom application. The 20th century 12v auto "cigarette lighter/accessory socket". Surely car-makers could have agreed on some alternative standard 1/2 century ago. it was never intended to be an accessory socket. it was designed to light a cigarette. however, it turns out that there is 12v waiting to be used for other stuff, so why not repurpose it. the only drawback is that it takes up a lot of space and doesn't always maintain a connection. fortunately, quality adapters avoid that issue. recent cars have usb jacks and in some cases, ac outlets, but not all devices run on 5v or 110vac. almost all automotive electronics are 12v. The 20th century "coaxial/barrel" DC power connector, usually on wall-wart power supply/charger. Not only comes in a zillion different sizes of external barrel diameter and internal hole size, but to top it off, adapters with the same voltage and identical plug size can come with reversed polarity. polarity can be a problem if the device is improperly designed. the main issue is overvoltage or using an adapter that outputs ac rather than dc (the reverse rarely will cause a problem). a well designed device protects against using the wrong adapter but most products don't and simply blame the user for ****ing up. |
#3
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A question for Applefans
On 11/09/2015 15:33, nospam wrote:
In article , Me wrote: 21st century problems... Connector problems that annoy the crap out of me date back to the 19th and 20th century - and should have been replaced long ago: The 19th century 1/4" phono plug, and subsequent 3.5 and 2.5mm miniature versions. Quick and easy on a telephone switchboard back in the 1800s, an abomination ever since, especially on mobile devices. why do you say that? they work just fine. the only issue is when a plug goes beyond ts/trs, because trrs and especially trrrs are nonstandard. however, that's a problem with any custom application. A few issues. One is that most plugs have a straight barrel - though you can get right-angle plugs, it's not uncommon that these can't be plugged in to the device. As the plug barrels are as long or longer than the contact shaft and rigid, they can exert a lot of force if the cord is pulled sideways, sometimes bending the socket contacts, sometimes breaking the socket, sometimes breaking the plug shaft. I seem to have spent a lot of time over the past 10 years replacing plugs, removing broken plug shafts, replacing sockets and audio i/o boards in assorted phones/laptops/tablets. The internal electrical contacts usually use a press-fit to connect to to the tip/ring/sleeve. The tip and ring are forced sideways by the spring contact in the socket. Eventually they fail. The sockets fail too. It's ****-poor design - but it is 150 years old. With low signal mic cables etc, they're a huge PITA as they are noisy - the suggested "buy a better quality cable" offers only marginal improvement. The tip and ring also contact the sleeve connection as they're plugged/unplugged - which can cause some issues. In pro audio they're still widely used and a curse, from the crappy 1/4" unbalanced phono connectors on electric guitar leads / amps, but also 1/4" TRS for balanced connection - as what became the default alternative (XLR) despite being infinitely better, is a bit wider - so takes up more space on mixers etc. The 20th century 12v auto "cigarette lighter/accessory socket". Surely car-makers could have agreed on some alternative standard 1/2 century ago. it was never intended to be an accessory socket. it was designed to light a cigarette. however, it turns out that there is 12v waiting to be used for other stuff, so why not repurpose it. the only drawback is that it takes up a lot of space and doesn't always maintain a connection. fortunately, quality adapters avoid that issue. recent cars have usb jacks and in some cases, ac outlets, but not all devices run on 5v or 110vac. almost all automotive electronics are 12v. Well my car is 24v, and all of my "mains powered" devices use 230v, but that another issue - and one where it's a damned shame there weren't international standards. The 20th century "coaxial/barrel" DC power connector, usually on wall-wart power supply/charger. Not only comes in a zillion different sizes of external barrel diameter and internal hole size, but to top it off, adapters with the same voltage and identical plug size can come with reversed polarity. polarity can be a problem if the device is improperly designed. the main issue is overvoltage or using an adapter that outputs ac rather than dc (the reverse rarely will cause a problem). a well designed device protects against using the wrong adapter but most products don't and simply blame the user for ****ing up. It's remarkable how many devices don't have reverse polarity protection, despite the fact that the diodes needed can be bought for a few cents each. |
#4
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A question for Applefans
On 09/10/2015 11:02 PM, Me wrote:
snip 21st century problems... Connector problems that annoy the crap out of me date back to the 19th and 20th century - and should have been replaced long ago: ************** The 19th century 1/4" phono plug, and subsequent 3.5 and 2.5mm miniature versions. Quick and easy on a telephone switchboard back in the 1800s, an abomination ever since, especially on mobile devices. ************** The 20th century 12v auto "cigarette lighter/accessory socket". Surely car-makers could have agreed on some alternative standard 1/2 century ago. The 20th century "coaxial/barrel" DC power connector, usually on wall-wart power supply/charger. Not only comes in a zillion different sizes of external barrel diameter and internal hole size, but to top it off, adapters with the same voltage and identical plug size can come with reversed polarity. Just to be pedantic, and because I spent many years in broadcast engineering: In the **starred** paragraph above, the plug commonly used for headphones is a "phone" plug, not a "phono" plug. The "phone" plug came into use just as you say: from the telephone switchboard. The connections on the plug are tip, ring, and sleeve. Tip and Ring are the electrical connections for the telephone conversation path, the sleeve is a ground connection. To this day, telco lineman refer to the red and green wires as tip and ring. The "phono" plug or "RCA Phono" plug was originally used for phonographs. It is small, inexpensive to make, and easy to install. The plug's construction allowed it to make a good mechanical connection, and if it worked loose, it could be adjusted tight with a common pliers! Eventually this connector was used for most home audio devices: tape decks, tuners, etc. As for the coaxial/barrel DC power connector, not only does it come in a zillion different combinations of O. D., I. D., and polarity, but it comes in different lengths, and is not limited to DC. I say bring back screw terminal barrier strips! -- Ken Hart |
#5
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A question for Applefans
In article , Me
wrote: 21st century problems... Connector problems that annoy the crap out of me date back to the 19th and 20th century - and should have been replaced long ago: The 19th century 1/4" phono plug, and subsequent 3.5 and 2.5mm miniature versions. Quick and easy on a telephone switchboard back in the 1800s, an abomination ever since, especially on mobile devices. why do you say that? they work just fine. the only issue is when a plug goes beyond ts/trs, because trrs and especially trrrs are nonstandard. however, that's a problem with any custom application. A few issues. One is that most plugs have a straight barrel - though you can get right-angle plugs, it's not uncommon that these can't be plugged in to the device. As the plug barrels are as long or longer than the contact shaft and rigid, they can exert a lot of force if the cord is pulled sideways, sometimes bending the socket contacts, sometimes breaking the socket, sometimes breaking the plug shaft. that is not specific to trs and can happen with any plug. however, the thicker plugs are more resistant to torquing, such as the 1/4". the 2.5/3.5mm plugs can torque, especially because they're used in portable devices. some devices have a recessed jack to minimize that problem, which causes some consumers to bitch because the plugs on some cables are fatter than normal for no particular reason so they need an adapter. I seem to have spent a lot of time over the past 10 years replacing plugs, removing broken plug shafts, replacing sockets and audio i/o boards in assorted phones/laptops/tablets. then you're a klutz. torque failures may happen but they're not that common. The internal electrical contacts usually use a press-fit to connect to to the tip/ring/sleeve. The tip and ring are forced sideways by the spring contact in the socket. Eventually they fail. The sockets fail too. It's ****-poor design - but it is 150 years old. no they don't all eventually fail. there are occasional failures, but nothing is perfect. With low signal mic cables etc, they're a huge PITA as they are noisy - the suggested "buy a better quality cable" offers only marginal improvement. The tip and ring also contact the sleeve connection as they're plugged/unplugged - which can cause some issues. In pro audio they're still widely used and a curse, from the crappy 1/4" unbalanced phono connectors on electric guitar leads / amps, but also 1/4" TRS for balanced connection - as what became the default alternative (XLR) despite being infinitely better, is a bit wider - so takes up more space on mixers etc. xlr is huge. nobody wants an xlr plug on their devices. balanced/unbalanced is a separate issue and connecting while inserting is trivially dealt with. a bigger problem is when people plug in a ts plug into a trs or trrs socket, which shorts out at least 2 pins. the common case is a mono headphone into a stereo socket which will short out one amplifier channel. well designed devices handle that properly but like reverse polarity problems, most products do not and blame the user for any failures. the user did not break anything. the designer of the product ****ed up. The 20th century 12v auto "cigarette lighter/accessory socket". Surely car-makers could have agreed on some alternative standard 1/2 century ago. it was never intended to be an accessory socket. it was designed to light a cigarette. however, it turns out that there is 12v waiting to be used for other stuff, so why not repurpose it. the only drawback is that it takes up a lot of space and doesn't always maintain a connection. fortunately, quality adapters avoid that issue. recent cars have usb jacks and in some cases, ac outlets, but not all devices run on 5v or 110vac. almost all automotive electronics are 12v. Well my car is 24v, and all of my "mains powered" devices use 230v, but that another issue - and one where it's a damned shame there weren't international standards. what kind of car? almost every car made today is 12v. some cars are starting to move to 48v, but they still need to provide 12v for compatibility with zillions of automotive accessories. as for the inverter, cars intended for areas w/230v would likely have a 230v inverter. that's minor. The 20th century "coaxial/barrel" DC power connector, usually on wall-wart power supply/charger. Not only comes in a zillion different sizes of external barrel diameter and internal hole size, but to top it off, adapters with the same voltage and identical plug size can come with reversed polarity. polarity can be a problem if the device is improperly designed. the main issue is overvoltage or using an adapter that outputs ac rather than dc (the reverse rarely will cause a problem). a well designed device protects against using the wrong adapter but most products don't and simply blame the user for ****ing up. It's remarkable how many devices don't have reverse polarity protection, despite the fact that the diodes needed can be bought for a few cents each. yep. |
#6
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A question for Applefans
In article , Ken Hart
wrote: I say bring back screw terminal barrier strips! are you ****ing serious? nobody wants to screw in wires. |
#7
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A question for Applefans
On 09/11/2015 10:29 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Ken Hart wrote: I say bring back screw terminal barrier strips! are you ****ing serious? nobody wants to screw in wires. Saying that "nobody" wants to screw in wires would require a sample set of everyone, but we'll let that go. Suffice to say that in high power applications, where the power level is "****ing serious", some type of screw or bolt connector is commonplace. Of course it's slow and clumsy, but name a connector type that is less failure prone, and easier to repair than bare wires wrapped around a screw and torqued down. Maybe binding posts, but they are just screw terminals on steroids. -- Ken Hart |
#8
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A question for Applefans
In article , Ken Hart
wrote: I say bring back screw terminal barrier strips! are you ****ing serious? nobody wants to screw in wires. Saying that "nobody" wants to screw in wires would require a sample set of everyone, but we'll let that go. it's a colloquial expression. the number of people who want to screw in cables is close enough to zero that it's not even noticeable, let alone significant. Suffice to say that in high power applications, where the power level is "****ing serious", some type of screw or bolt connector is commonplace. this isn't about high power applications. it's about headphone jacks, power adapters for consumer devices, automotive electronics, etc. as stated before, nobody wants to screw in wires for *any* of that. and even where power levels are '****ing serious', people still don't want to screw in cables unless it's a *permanent installation*. Of course it's slow and clumsy, but name a connector type that is less failure prone, and easier to repair than bare wires wrapped around a screw and torqued down. Maybe binding posts, but they are just screw terminals on steroids. most of them. plugs can be keyed so you can't connect it backwards and cause damage. that's a huge plus right there. as for repair, remove defective cable or device and replace with new. done. with modern devices you don't even need to power it off because they're hot-pluggable. try that with screwed in wires. good luck. |
#9
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A question for Applefans
On 12/09/2015 02:29, nospam wrote:
In article , Me wrote: 21st century problems... Connector problems that annoy the crap out of me date back to the 19th and 20th century - and should have been replaced long ago: The 19th century 1/4" phono plug, and subsequent 3.5 and 2.5mm miniature versions. Quick and easy on a telephone switchboard back in the 1800s, an abomination ever since, especially on mobile devices. why do you say that? they work just fine. the only issue is when a plug goes beyond ts/trs, because trrs and especially trrrs are nonstandard. however, that's a problem with any custom application. A few issues. One is that most plugs have a straight barrel - though you can get right-angle plugs, it's not uncommon that these can't be plugged in to the device. As the plug barrels are as long or longer than the contact shaft and rigid, they can exert a lot of force if the cord is pulled sideways, sometimes bending the socket contacts, sometimes breaking the socket, sometimes breaking the plug shaft. that is not specific to trs and can happen with any plug. however, the thicker plugs are more resistant to torquing, such as the 1/4". the 2.5/3.5mm plugs can torque, especially because they're used in portable devices. some devices have a recessed jack to minimize that problem, which causes some consumers to bitch because the plugs on some cables are fatter than normal for no particular reason so they need an adapter. I seem to have spent a lot of time over the past 10 years replacing plugs, removing broken plug shafts, replacing sockets and audio i/o boards in assorted phones/laptops/tablets. then you're a klutz. torque failures may happen but they're not that common. Not me - I'm the "mug" who gets presented with these things to fix by the "klutz" who broke them. It's very common. The internal electrical contacts usually use a press-fit to connect to to the tip/ring/sleeve. The tip and ring are forced sideways by the spring contact in the socket. Eventually they fail. The sockets fail too. It's ****-poor design - but it is 150 years old. no they don't all eventually fail. there are occasional failures, but nothing is perfect. Perhaps my experience is tainted by the fact that I also end up working on devices which have an expected life longer than the couple of years many people expect for phones, tablets, laptops etc. With low signal mic cables etc, they're a huge PITA as they are noisy - the suggested "buy a better quality cable" offers only marginal improvement. The tip and ring also contact the sleeve connection as they're plugged/unplugged - which can cause some issues. In pro audio they're still widely used and a curse, from the crappy 1/4" unbalanced phono connectors on electric guitar leads / amps, but also 1/4" TRS for balanced connection - as what became the default alternative (XLR) despite being infinitely better, is a bit wider - so takes up more space on mixers etc. xlr is huge. nobody wants an xlr plug on their devices. Depends what the device is. Everybody seems to want XLR to connect microphones for pro-audio applications. But more probably, they want it because that's what's used - there's usually no choice. At least with xlr when connecting a device if something isn't working, it's reasonably safe to assume that it's probably not the cable. With 1/4" TS/TRS, the cable or sockets are at the top of the suspect list - for a good reason. balanced/unbalanced is a separate issue and connecting while inserting is trivially dealt with. a bigger problem is when people plug in a ts plug into a trs or trrs socket, which shorts out at least 2 pins. the common case is a mono headphone into a stereo socket which will short out one amplifier channel. well designed devices handle that properly but like reverse polarity problems, most products do not and blame the user for any failures. the user did not break anything. the designer of the product ****ed up. The 20th century 12v auto "cigarette lighter/accessory socket". Surely car-makers could have agreed on some alternative standard 1/2 century ago. it was never intended to be an accessory socket. it was designed to light a cigarette. however, it turns out that there is 12v waiting to be used for other stuff, so why not repurpose it. the only drawback is that it takes up a lot of space and doesn't always maintain a connection. fortunately, quality adapters avoid that issue. recent cars have usb jacks and in some cases, ac outlets, but not all devices run on 5v or 110vac. almost all automotive electronics are 12v. Well my car is 24v, and all of my "mains powered" devices use 230v, but that another issue - and one where it's a damned shame there weren't international standards. what kind of car? almost every car made today is 12v. A diesel-engine SUV. some cars are starting to move to 48v, but they still need to provide 12v for compatibility with zillions of automotive accessories. as for the inverter, cars intended for areas w/230v would likely have a 230v inverter. that's minor. The 20th century "coaxial/barrel" DC power connector, usually on wall-wart power supply/charger. Not only comes in a zillion different sizes of external barrel diameter and internal hole size, but to top it off, adapters with the same voltage and identical plug size can come with reversed polarity. polarity can be a problem if the device is improperly designed. the main issue is overvoltage or using an adapter that outputs ac rather than dc (the reverse rarely will cause a problem). a well designed device protects against using the wrong adapter but most products don't and simply blame the user for ****ing up. It's remarkable how many devices don't have reverse polarity protection, despite the fact that the diodes needed can be bought for a few cents each. yep. |
#10
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A question for Applefans
On 12/09/2015 02:24, Whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 11 September 2015 14:39:02 UTC+1, Ken Hart wrote: On 09/10/2015 11:02 PM, Me wrote: snip ************** The 19th century 1/4" phono plug, and subsequent 3.5 and 2.5mm miniature versions. Quick and easy on a telephone switchboard back in the 1800s, an abomination ever since, especially on mobile devices. ************** Just to be pedantic, that's what we like here and because I spent many years in broadcast engineering: In the **starred** paragraph above, the plug commonly used for headphones is a "phone" plug, not a "phono" plug. I didn't know that's how it got it's name I thought it was just a pronouncation mistake that stuck and then got written down and kept. I wonder if there's some colloquialism going on there. Calling the 1/4" TS plug a "phono" plug seems common, though I see that strictly speaking a phono plug is an RCA connector - but I've always called them RCA. If someone said to me a "phone plug", then without some context, I'd probably first think of the old (UK type) telephone/plug socket used here. As for the coaxial/barrel DC power connector, not only does it come in a zillion different combinations of O. D., I. D., and polarity, but it comes in different lengths, and is not limited to DC. I say bring back screw terminal barrier strips! Choc blocks -- Ken Hart |
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