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Original charter of rec.photo.equipment.35mm and notes on thecharter



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 23rd 08, 06:20 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital
David Nebenzahl
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Posts: 1,353
Default Original charter of rec.photo.equipment.35mm and notes on thecharter

On 8/18/2008 10:15 AM SMS spake thus:

Original Charter

-----begin-----
This group is for the discussion of all aspects of 35mm camera
equipment. This includes 35mm SLR camera bodies and lenses, 35mm
point-and-shoot cameras, 35mm rangefinder cameras, 35mm scale focus
cameras and 35mm half-frame cameras.

All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet
guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents). This
group explicitly prohibits the posting of commercial advertisements or
other promotional material, whether or not it is in any way related to
photography. Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) are
prohibited.
-----end-----

Notes on the Charter
--------------------
The creators of this group wisely did not include any reference to
the type of sensor, even though both film and digital sensors were in
existence at the time of the groups creation. Clearly they knew that
eventually there would be digital sensors that were the same size as
35mm film, and they did not want to exclude discussion of these products.

At this time there are not separate Usenet groups for 35mm film
based SLRs and 35mm digital based SLRs; rec.photo.equipment.35mm is a
proper venue for all posts regarding all types of 35mm cameras,
including SLR 35mm film, SLR 35mm digital, and point and shoot 35mm film
(there are no 35mm point and shoot digital cameras at this time).


Actually, not true. First of all, you're basically trying to read the
minds of those who wrote the charter retrospectively, which is a pretty
inexact science.

But more to the point, when this group was created, there were digital
SLRs that were in the same form factor as 35mm film cameras (used the
same lenses, had a sensor approximately the size of a 35mm film frame,
etc.), but as you well know, they were enormously expensive and not very
widely used. Nobody really knew which way digital photography would go
at that point. So it's quite a stretch to just breezily assume that
"they" (the charter writers) were specifically including digital cameras
under that heading. If that were the case, don't you think they would
have spelled it out? I would think so.


--
"In 1964 Barry Goldwater declared: 'Elect me president, and I
will bomb the cities of Vietnam, defoliate the jungles, herd the
population into concentration camps and turn the country into a
wasteland.' But Lyndon Johnson said: 'No! No! No! Don't you dare do
that. Let ME do it.'"

- Characterization (paraphrased) of the 1964 Goldwater/Johnson
presidential race by Professor Irwin Corey, "The World's Foremost
Authority".
  #2  
Old August 23rd 08, 07:39 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
John McWilliams
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Posts: 6,945
Default Original charter of rec.photo.equipment.35mm and notes on thecharter

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 8/18/2008 10:15 AM SMS spake thus:

Original Charter

-----begin-----
This group is for the discussion of all aspects of 35mm camera
equipment. This includes 35mm SLR camera bodies and lenses, 35mm
point-and-shoot cameras, 35mm rangefinder cameras, 35mm scale focus
cameras and 35mm half-frame cameras.

All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet
guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents). This
group explicitly prohibits the posting of commercial advertisements or
other promotional material, whether or not it is in any way related to
photography. Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) are
prohibited.
-----end-----

Notes on the Charter
--------------------
The creators of this group wisely did not include any reference
to the type of sensor, even though both film and digital sensors were
in existence at the time of the groups creation. Clearly they knew
that eventually there would be digital sensors that were the same size
as 35mm film, and they did not want to exclude discussion of these
products.

At this time there are not separate Usenet groups for 35mm film
based SLRs and 35mm digital based SLRs; rec.photo.equipment.35mm is a
proper venue for all posts regarding all types of 35mm cameras,
including SLR 35mm film, SLR 35mm digital, and point and shoot 35mm
film (there are no 35mm point and shoot digital cameras at this time).


Actually, not true. First of all, you're basically trying to read the
minds of those who wrote the charter retrospectively, which is a pretty
inexact science.

But more to the point, when this group was created, there were digital
SLRs that were in the same form factor as 35mm film cameras (used the
same lenses, had a sensor approximately the size of a 35mm film frame,
etc.), but as you well know, they were enormously expensive and not very
widely used. Nobody really knew which way digital photography would go
at that point. So it's quite a stretch to just breezily assume that
"they" (the charter writers) were specifically including digital cameras
under that heading. If that were the case, don't you think they would
have spelled it out? I would think so.


  #3  
Old August 23rd 08, 08:59 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital
Robert Coe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,901
Default Original charter of rec.photo.equipment.35mm and notes on the charter

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 10:20:41 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:
: On 8/18/2008 10:15 AM SMS spake thus:
:
: Original Charter
:
: -----begin-----
: This group is for the discussion of all aspects of 35mm camera
: equipment. This includes 35mm SLR camera bodies and lenses, 35mm
: point-and-shoot cameras, 35mm rangefinder cameras, 35mm scale focus
: cameras and 35mm half-frame cameras.
:
: All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet
: guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents). This
: group explicitly prohibits the posting of commercial advertisements or
: other promotional material, whether or not it is in any way related to
: photography. Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) are
: prohibited.
: -----end-----
:
: Notes on the Charter
: --------------------
: The creators of this group wisely did not include any reference to
: the type of sensor, even though both film and digital sensors were in
: existence at the time of the groups creation. Clearly they knew that
: eventually there would be digital sensors that were the same size as
: 35mm film, and they did not want to exclude discussion of these products.
:
: At this time there are not separate Usenet groups for 35mm film
: based SLRs and 35mm digital based SLRs; rec.photo.equipment.35mm is a
: proper venue for all posts regarding all types of 35mm cameras,
: including SLR 35mm film, SLR 35mm digital, and point and shoot 35mm film
: (there are no 35mm point and shoot digital cameras at this time).
:
: Actually, not true. First of all, you're basically trying to read the
: minds of those who wrote the charter retrospectively, which is a pretty
: inexact science.
:
: But more to the point, when this group was created, there were digital
: SLRs that were in the same form factor as 35mm film cameras (used the
: same lenses, had a sensor approximately the size of a 35mm film frame,
: etc.), but as you well know, they were enormously expensive and not very
: widely used. Nobody really knew which way digital photography would go
: at that point. So it's quite a stretch to just breezily assume that
: "they" (the charter writers) were specifically including digital cameras
: under that heading. If that were the case, don't you think they would
: have spelled it out? I would think so.

The counter-argument would be that "they" could perfectly well have included
the word "film" in the charter. Which, evidently, they didn't.

Bob
  #4  
Old August 24th 08, 12:45 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital
Noons
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,245
Default Original charter of rec.photo.equipment.35mm and notes on thecharter

Annika1980 wrote,on my timestamp of 24/08/2008 7:43 AM:


The other counter-argument, which is the one D-Mac has made, is that
the charter really means nothing and is not enforceable.


which of course would be your natural territor, wouldn't it?
Twist and bend any rules is you motto, after all.


So why waste your time and ours posting 1000 times that a certain post
violates the charter?


Because it's true?

It serves no purpose other than clogging up the
group with a bunch of off-topic crap that nobody cares about.


And your demented off-topic posts about a diminished
capability camera are on-topic? I don't think so...


And
isn't that what the charter tries to prevent?


Yes. So why are you posting?


First off, you are wrong about this being a film group since the
charter you refer to doesn't mention film.


It does mention 35mm. Since when is a 40D a 35mm sensor
camera?

Secondly, even if the posts WERE against the charter, so what?
Go the **** away until you have something to contribute.


Why don't you lead?
  #5  
Old August 24th 08, 03:55 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,312
Default Original charter of rec.photo.equipment.35mm and notes on thecharter

Robert Coe wrote:

The counter-argument would be that "they" could perfectly well have included
the word "film" in the charter. Which, evidently, they didn't.


This is true. It would have been very easy to either include the word
"film" or specifically exclude digital. They didn't do either.
  #6  
Old August 24th 08, 04:19 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital
Charles
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 41
Default Original charter of rec.photo.equipment.35mm and notes on the charter

In article , SMS
wrote:

This is true. It would have been very easy to either include the word
"film" or specifically exclude digital. They didn't do either.


There does not seem to be any "film" postings in
rec.photo.equipment.35. Pretty much there are digital posts and a few
shoot in posts. I guess 35mm film really is dead.

--
Charles
  #7  
Old August 24th 08, 04:25 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital
Blinky the Shark
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Posts: 827
Default Original charter of rec.photo.equipment.35mm and notes on the charter

Charles wrote:

In article , SMS
wrote:

This is true. It would have been very easy to either include the word
"film" or specifically exclude digital. They didn't do either.


There does not seem to be any "film" postings in
rec.photo.equipment.35. Pretty much there are digital posts and a few
shoot in posts. I guess 35mm film really is dead.


What is a "shoot in post"?

--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Need a new news feed? http://blinkynet.net/comp/newfeed.html

  #8  
Old August 24th 08, 04:32 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital
Robert Coe
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Posts: 4,901
Default Original charter of rec.photo.equipment.35mm and notes on the charter

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 14:43:44 -0700 (PDT), Annika1980
wrote:
: On Aug 23, 3:59*pm, Robert Coe wrote:
: The counter-argument would be that "they" could perfectly well have
: included the word "film" in the charter. Which, evidently, they
: didn't.
:
: The other counter-argument, which is the one D-Mac has made, is that
: the charter really means nothing and is not enforceable. Don't take
: my word for it, take it from the guys who created this whole thing
: that D-Mac mentioned.
:
: So why waste your time and ours posting 1000 times that a certain post
: violates the charter? It serves no purpose other than clogging up the
: group with a bunch of off-topic crap that nobody cares about. And
: isn't that what the charter tries to prevent?
:
: First off, you are wrong about this being a film group since the
: charter you refer to doesn't mention film.
: Secondly, even if the posts WERE against the charter, so what?
: Go the **** away until you have something to contribute.

Er ... To whom are you addressing that diatribe, Bret? The only article you
quoted was mine, and I was under the impression that I saw the issue pretty
much as you do.

Bob
  #9  
Old August 24th 08, 05:21 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,312
Default Original charter of rec.photo.equipment.35mm and notes on thecharter

Annika1980 wrote:
On Aug 23, 7:45 pm, Noons wrote:
First off, you are wrong about this being a film group since the
charter you refer to doesn't mention film.

It does mention 35mm. Since when is a 40D a 35mm sensor
camera?


The charter also mentions 35mm lenses which is what I use, so suck me.


Half frame is also mentioned, and APS-C is very close.

Just add " to your kill-file and be done with yet
another cross-posting troll that clutters up Usenet with his personal
agenda.
  #10  
Old August 24th 08, 06:27 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital
Paul Furman
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Posts: 7,367
Default Original charter of rec.photo.equipment.35mm and notes on thecharter

Blinky the Shark wrote:
Charles wrote:

In article , SMS
wrote:

This is true. It would have been very easy to either include the word
"film" or specifically exclude digital. They didn't do either.

There does not seem to be any "film" postings in
rec.photo.equipment.35. Pretty much there are digital posts and a few
shoot in posts. I guess 35mm film really is dead.


What is a "shoot in post"?


http://www.pbase.com/shootin

--
Paul Furman
www.edgehill.net
www.baynatives.com

all google groups messages filtered due to spam
 




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