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canon SX10is - max memory card capacity



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 28th 09, 03:04 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Jürgen Exner
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Default canon SX10is - max memory card capacity

yirgster wrote:
Max memory capacity for th Canon SX10is?

I couldn't find it anywhere.


According to
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/spec...non_sx10is.asp it
supports. SD/SDHC/MMC cards.

SD is limited to 2GB, SDHC in the current specification is limited to
32GB.

jue
  #2  
Old June 28th 09, 06:41 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
David J Taylor[_11_]
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Default canon SX10is - max memory card capacity

yirgster wrote:
Thanks for your responses, but I'm not sure they addressed what I'm
concerned about.

That a memory card is available in a certain capacity does not imply,
by itself, that the camera can support that capacity. I've run into
this before. E.g., card can be 4GB, but camera only supports a max of
2GB.

From your answers I infer that the SX10is will support whatever
capacity the card has? Is this correct? That is, what is the maximum
card capacity that the camera will in fact support (and not
necessarily the maximum capacity of cards of that type).

That's what my question was or should have been, and what I couldn't
find on the various websites.


A camera supporting SD cards has a limit of 2GB. Except that some
non-standard 4GB SD cards were produced, and being non-standard, some
cameras worked with them and some did not. If a camera is specified to
work with SDHC cards, it should work up to the specified limit, which has
been stated to be 32GB.

David

  #3  
Old June 28th 09, 02:33 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Clair Johnston
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Posts: 32
Default canon SX10is - max memory card capacity

yirgster wrote:
Thanks for your responses, but I'm not sure they addressed what I'm
concerned about.

That a memory card is available in a certain capacity does not imply,
by itself, that the camera can support that capacity. I've run into
this before. E.g., card can be 4GB, but camera only supports a max of
2GB.

From your answers I infer that the SX10is will support whatever
capacity the card has? Is this correct? That is, what is the maximum
card capacity that the camera will in fact support (and not
necessarily the maximum capacity of cards of that type).

That's what my question was or should have been, and what I couldn't
find on the various websites.


On Jun 27, 7:04 pm, J rgen Exner wrote:
yirgster wrote:
Max memory capacity for th Canon SX10is?
I couldn't find it anywhere.

According tohttp://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/canon_sx10is.aspit
supports. SD/SDHC/MMC cards.

SD is limited to 2GB, SDHC in the current specification is limited to
32GB.

jue


My wife is currently using a 4G SDHC card in her SX10IS and it works
fine to full capacity. The camera recognizes and writes to my 8G SDHC
card, but we never tied it to capacity. My view, is that unless you are
recording movies, anything over 4G is overkill. I use 8G cards in my
Nikon D300, but that is because I occasionally record in RAW.

I would expect that the SX10IS will work fine with the 32G SDHC cards
unless there is a problem with the card.

Clair
  #4  
Old June 29th 09, 01:31 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Stormin Mormon
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Posts: 185
Default canon SX10is - max memory card capacity

My Panasonic supports SD and SDHC, but for some reason cards
over 2 GB just don't work. Go figure.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"yirgster" wrote in message
...
Thanks for your responses, but I'm not sure they addressed
what I'm
concerned about.

That a memory card is available in a certain capacity does
not imply,
by itself, that the camera can support that capacity. I've
run into
this before. E.g., card can be 4GB, but camera only supports
a max of
2GB.



  #5  
Old June 29th 09, 07:13 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
David J Taylor[_11_]
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Posts: 451
Default canon SX10is - max memory card capacity

Stormin Mormon wrote:
My Panasonic supports SD and SDHC, but for some reason cards
over 2 GB just don't work. Go figure.


If it doesn't work with prime brand 4GB SDHC cards, I would have said that
it's either faulty or needs a firmware upgrade. Be aware that 4GB SD
cards (as opposed to SDHC cards) are non-standard, and may or may not work
in any particular camera.

David

  #6  
Old July 6th 09, 11:08 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
David J Taylor[_11_]
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Posts: 451
Default canon SX10is - max memory card capacity

John Turco wrote:
David J Taylor wrote:

edited for brevity

A camera supporting SD cards has a limit of 2GB. Except that some
non-standard 4GB SD cards were produced, and being non-standard, some
cameras worked with them and some did not. If a camera is specified
to work with SDHC cards, it should work up to the specified limit,
which has been stated to be 32GB.

David



Hello, David:

"Should work" doesn't mean "will work," alas. I've read of some
individual digicams' specifications, which state SDHC limits, well
below 32GB (e.g., 8GB).

That's not very shocking, though. If you'll recall, plenty of older
camera models (such as those, using Compact Flash) couldn't fully
exploit their memory card formats' capacity, either.


Cordially,
John Turco


Precisely why I wrote "Should work", John. Yes, I had lots of fun with
cameras not working with CF cards. In the early days, I had to take 2 x
30MB back to the shop and have them replaced by 3 x 20MB. As that was
1998, you don't want to ask what the price of 30MB CF cards was then!

Cheers,
David

  #7  
Old July 10th 09, 07:25 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
David J Taylor[_11_]
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Posts: 451
Default canon SX10is - max memory card capacity

John Turco wrote:
[]
Hello, David:

My first digicam (Largan "Lmini 350") couldn't even use external
storage, as it was limited to its own, paltry 2MB of internal memory!

The next two cameras (DC3200 and DX3900, both Kodak products) took CF,
and I marvelled at how little (in physical dimensions) the cards were.

Beginning with a secondhand DX6490, all of my various Kodak models are
SD-based. Now, SD puppies are truly tiny -- and that's without
counting microSD, I might add. ;-)


In some respects, John, I am glad to see the back of CF cards, preferring
the slide contacts on SD to the embedded pins on the CF socket. Micro-SD
I do have for the GPS, but I am more careful when I change that (as a
day's trek is usually well under a megabyte, and as that card has some
1400MB free, I don't need to remove it all that often.

I use a mixture of 2GB SD and 4GB SD-HC now. For my purposes I haven't
found card speed to be a limiting factor - the camera buffer is enough,
although the faster reading of higher-speed cards and an optimised USB 2.0
hi-speed setup is nice.

Cheers,
David

  #8  
Old July 10th 09, 07:02 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Good Info
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Default canon SX10is - max memory card capacity

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 09:40:04 -0700, John Navas
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 06:25:59 GMT, "David J Taylor"
wrote in
:

John Turco wrote:


I use a mixture of 2GB SD and 4GB SD-HC now. For my purposes I haven't
found card speed to be a limiting factor - the camera buffer is enough,
although the faster reading of higher-speed cards and an optimised USB 2.0
hi-speed setup is nice.


Depends on the camera, of course, and how you use it.

While there are lots of times when slower cards make no difference,
I saw enough differences between a middle-of-the-road Kingston card and
SanDisk Extreme III with my Panasonic DMC-FZ28, especially in critical
situations, that I've now switched entirely to the latter, and settled
on 8 GB as my own price performance sweet spot, in part because I can
also use these cards as super fast computer DVD replacements.

Flash card speeds tends to go down as cards get larger, making it more
important to have a faster card at higher capacities.

Lastly, if you're going to use a fast card like the SanDisk Extreme III
with a card reader(writer), be warned that not all SDHC readers are
created equal -- many will severely limit speeds, which is why I also
use and recommend the fast SanDisk MicroMate SDHC Reader.


Good points. There's lots of variables involved in which the card speed
might or might not be important. As well as the capabilities of any
card-reader if using that to access your files. Keep in mind too that
advertised speed rates of cards are their READ speeds which is always
faster, not their WRITE speeds. There is often a wide difference between
the two. You have to buy and test them to find out the true write speeds,
or find benchmark lists online by those who have tested cards for their
write speeds.

Speed of the camera's own firmware writing to card being one bottleneck.

[For some interesting information: See the difference in the very same SD
cards being used on various camera platforms and how their speeds change
from Digic II, III, and IV camera processors.
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Benchmarks The interesting part of these tests
as these are done in-camera. Direct camera to card benchmarks. How the
camera will see and use them independent of any card-reader and computer
CPU speed tests. Also note the difference in speeds between the very same
cards being formatted in FAT16 or FAT32. FAT16 often affording much faster
access times, ~25% faster. That's like going from Class-4 to Class-6, for
free.]

If burst-modes are often needed.

Size of files being saved. JPG? RAW? etc.

If video mode is important. What audio-sampling rate you have chosen for
videos. If you can adjust that video quality bandwidth over a wide range as
in CHDK supported cameras.

There are just way too many variables for anyone to be able to give advice
to another on what speed of card they should get for their camera. Camera
platform, camera usage, shooting styles, no two people's needs will be
identical.


Some interesting findings:

Oddly, and going against all known information. I have found that if I am
needing a fast burst rate for some experiment and the card starts to
bog-down to 2/3rds to 1/2 its beginning write-speed after some 50 to 100
frames. If I take out that card and use Window's Defragmentation utility on
it (in a card reader), then all original access speed returns. Normal
3rd-party defraggers seem to have trouble recognizing removable media. I've
tried quite a few to see if others would work. You might have to perform
this twice, as it seems like the 1st-run defragmentation isn't the same as
subsequent ones. After 2 or 3 defragmentations Windows' defragger is no
longer able to change any of he file structure on the card and there is no
added benefit by doing this again.

This shouldn't be true, due to the random-access nature of memory cards.
And indeed you'll read this cut-in-stone information everywhere on the net.
That "Defragmentation on any memory card is useless and only detracts from
the available R/W life of the card." As I also read when I went looking for
an explanation to this oddity. But I've run into this problem so often in
the past and used defragmentation as a simple fix each time, that I'm now
convinced that there is a fragmentation bottle-neck on random-access memory
cards. Anecdotal evidence, but one of which I've now convinced myself
through real-world tests and uses, in spite of all the "learned" advice all
over the net. (Though this wouldn't be the first time, far from it, that
some common advice all over the internet posted by self-proclaimed experts
has been proven wrong by my own tests and findings.)

Ignore all the advice you read online and try Window's defragger the next
time your card is acting sluggish. See if it doesn't restore fast access
time again. It does on all of the ones I've tried this on. I don't need to
do this often, but after using an SD card for multiple uses (MP3 files,
portable-apps, etc.) if there has been a lot of file changes on the card
between photography sessions, then I'll snug-up all the files again after I
have spooled off all the images. Leaving the next new camera images for the
large clear chunk beyond all the files already retained on the card. I
would simply do an in-camera reformat but my cards are used for many
devices and multiple uses. The CHDK camera cards also keep the CHDK
operating system on them (with boot code, settings, special FAT16
formatting for extra speed, scripts, e-books, etc.). Reformat is not very
practical for my needs. Defrag SD to the rescue.



  #9  
Old July 13th 09, 10:23 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
John McWilliams
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Default canon SX10is - max memory card capacity

John Navas wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 05:25:49 +1000, Bob Larter
wrote in :

John Navas wrote:


Because flash must be erased in device-dependent blocks, random writing
is often much slower than sequential writing, which can be a problem
when the file system becomes fragmented. Device-dependent block size
can also be a problem when reading fragmented files, but tends not to be
as significant as writing. So defragmenting can be helpful, but equally
helpful is to just erase the card before reuse.

The best technique of all is to re-format your card after downloading
your photos from it. That way, you're not fighting the automatic
wear-leveling algorithm in the card.


That's no different than erasing the card, unless you're talking _long_
format, which is what would actually engage the wear leveling mechanism.


I won't even get into wear leveling, but reformatting is way preferable
to erasing all, as you always start with a clean slate, no
fragmentation, and *it is way faster on my cameras* (Canons).

--
John McWilliams
  #10  
Old July 13th 09, 11:16 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Good Info
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Default canon SX10is - max memory card capacity

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:23:09 -0700, John McWilliams
wrote:

John Navas wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 05:25:49 +1000, Bob Larter
wrote in :

John Navas wrote:


Because flash must be erased in device-dependent blocks, random writing
is often much slower than sequential writing, which can be a problem
when the file system becomes fragmented. Device-dependent block size
can also be a problem when reading fragmented files, but tends not to be
as significant as writing. So defragmenting can be helpful, but equally
helpful is to just erase the card before reuse.
The best technique of all is to re-format your card after downloading
your photos from it. That way, you're not fighting the automatic
wear-leveling algorithm in the card.


That's no different than erasing the card, unless you're talking _long_
format, which is what would actually engage the wear leveling mechanism.


I won't even get into wear leveling, but reformatting is way preferable
to erasing all, as you always start with a clean slate, no
fragmentation, and *it is way faster on my cameras* (Canons).


Which isn't always practical for some of us that do a lot of multitasking
with a wide array of interests and creative needs. I also like to use
Micro-SD cards so they may be swapped between many devices at any time.
Always having emergency backup memory for whatever task or device has
momentary priority.

Between the file-managers built into CHDK cameras and Rockbox**, for my MP3
player to listen to favorite tunes while out on a shoot, which even has a
text-editor built in to allow me to write or tweak scripts for my CHDK
camera while out in the field; it's almost like carrying a laptop along to
manage files. All fitting in one roomy jacket pocket. Now if only one of
them would have a defrag utility in them too.

Reformat is very impractical for some of us. My previous text about this:

... after using an SD card for multiple uses (MP3 files,
portable-apps, etc.) if there has been a lot of file changes on the card
between photography sessions, then I'll snug-up all the files again after I
have spooled off all the images. Leaving the next new camera images for the
large clear chunk beyond all the files already retained on the card. I
would simply do an in-camera reformat but my cards are used for many
devices and multiple uses. The CHDK camera cards also keep the CHDK
operating system on them (with boot code, settings, special FAT16
formatting for extra speed, scripts, e-books, etc.). Reformat is not very
practical for my needs. Defrag SD to the rescue.



** Rockbox's file-renaming feature is very handy to circumvent the Garmin
2025 map-sector limit. Carry half the world on one Micro-SD card in about 9
files on an 8G GPS card. Take it out and insert it into your compact
Rockbox player, then rename the file of your world maps that you want to
"gmapsupp.img" as needed. My MP3 player is only 1.3"x3" (GPS is 2"x4"), but
such a handy device to carry to supplement my other tools when Rockbox is
installed on it. Not to mention the 20 days, or so, worth of tunes and
audio-books, it even plays videos (albeit at very tiny resolution). Camera,
GPS, MP3 player, all fitting in one roomy pocket. All using the same memory
format, and they all support each other technically too. Can't ask for more
than that. It's like the ultimate combo of adventuring photographer's
needs.


p.s. Thanks John, for posting info to reaffirm my own findings. Had I found
that first I wouldn't have wasted so much time trying to find something on
the net that refuted all the parroted net-bs out there that I constantly
ran into, that went 100% in opposition to my own observations. This is why
I NEVER believe anything posted to the net, until I have personally tested
it myself.



 




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