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#11
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$230 12MP camera?
In article , SMS Ģ
§ wrote: Stay away from the Olympus digital SLRs because they use a smaller sensor and are noisier. I'm sorry, but I think the Olympus dSLR's and other Four-Thirds cameras are excelent. Read the reviews and look at images. I'm very happy with my 6Mp Olympus e-330. (BTW, I'm also very happy with my Nikon and my accumulated-over-the-years Nikkor glass.) I suspect you can't go far wrong with a dSLR today. -=- Rick -- Richard Karash Richard "at" Karash "dot" com |
#12
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$230 12MP camera?
SMS 斯蒂文• 夏 wrote:
Stay away from the Olympus digital SLRs because they use a smaller sensor and are noisier. Then why do the Olympus E510 examples look better than the Nikon D40X in side by side comparison? http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.p...6&p2=2175&ph=2 |
#13
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$230 12MP camera?
John Adams wrote:
David J Taylor wrote: I would suggest not getting a 4/3 camera (Olympus, Panasonic?), as these are almost as big and heavy as a conventional DSLR, but have a smaller sensor which means more noise or a lower ISO. Then why do the Olympus E510 examples look better than the Nikon D40X in side by side comparison? http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.p...6&p2=2175&ph=2 To me, the Olympus images appear to have more noise than the Nikon. Look at the lower left of the big bottle. A poor subject to test noise with, though. The Olympus images also appear to be either better focussed, to have a poorer anti-alias filter, or to have more sharpening applied to them. To me, the Olympus image look over-sharpened (which then introduces uncertainties into the noise comparison). The Nikon image has noticeably more saturation, the red at the bottom of the image. Cheers, David |
#14
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$230 12MP camera?
John Adams wrote:
SMS 斯蒂文• 夏 wrote: Stay away from the Olympus digital SLRs because they use a smaller sensor and are noisier. Then why do the Olympus E510 examples look better than the Nikon D40X in side by side comparison? http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.p...6&p2=2175&ph=2 Agree that the Olympus looks better in the first shot - but the difference could be the lens, or could be differences in the level of sharpening. Now go to the drop down list and choose "Barbie, detail without flash". The Nikon is at ISO 3200, the Olympus is only at ISO 800. Despite the ISO on the Nikon being 4x the Olympus, they are about the same as far as noise. The Nikon colouring looks better too. |
#15
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$230 12MP camera?
Doug Jewell wrote:
John Adams wrote: SMS 斯蒂文• 夏 wrote: Stay away from the Olympus digital SLRs because they use a smaller sensor and are noisier. Then why do the Olympus E510 examples look better than the Nikon D40X in side by side comparison? http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.p...6&p2=2175&ph=2 Agree that the Olympus looks better in the first shot - but the difference could be the lens, or could be differences in the level of sharpening. Now go to the drop down list and choose "Barbie, detail without flash". The Nikon is at ISO 3200, the Olympus is only at ISO 800. Despite the ISO on the Nikon being 4x the Olympus, they are about the same as far as noise. The Nikon colouring looks better too. Actually, I wouldn't put a lot of faith in that site. Just looked at a few other cameras, and it appears they don't make much effort to ensure the cameras are shooting in consistent settings. I picked a few cameras at random, and they all had the main scene rendered at different sizes, and the main scene seems to change quite a bit too. If they can't maintain consistency in the scene, how are we to know if they are using comparable camera settings? Other than the barbie without flash, they don't say what ISO, what white balance setting, what lens, what aperture, what shutter speed etc, they have taken the photo with. |
#16
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$230 12MP camera?
On 2007-11-28, Doug Jewell wrote:
Doug Jewell wrote: John Adams wrote: SMS ???? ? wrote: Stay away from the Olympus digital SLRs because they use a smaller sensor and are noisier. Then why do the Olympus E510 examples look better than the Nikon D40X in side by side comparison? http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.p...6&p2=2175&ph=2 Agree that the Olympus looks better in the first shot - but the difference could be the lens, or could be differences in the level of sharpening. Now go to the drop down list and choose "Barbie, detail without flash". The Nikon is at ISO 3200, the Olympus is only at ISO 800. Despite the ISO on the Nikon being 4x the Olympus, they are about the same as far as noise. The Nikon colouring looks better too. Actually, I wouldn't put a lot of faith in that site. Just looked at a few other cameras, and it appears they don't make much effort to ensure the cameras are shooting in consistent settings. I've poked around trying to find some kind of explanation of their test rationales. I can't find anything. Now I'm no Ken Rockwell^W^W rocket scientist but even I know that tests performed without published, repeatable testing methods are no tests at all. And whatever result it is you're trying to compare is worthless without consistency in the method. -- Chris Savage Kiss me. Or would you rather live in a Gateshead, UK land where the soap won't lather? - Billy Bragg |
#17
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$230 12MP camera?
Doug Jewell wrote:
Agree that the Olympus looks better in the first shot - but the difference could be the lens, or could be differences in the level of sharpening. Now go to the drop down list and choose "Barbie, detail without flash". The Nikon is at ISO 3200, the Olympus is only at ISO 800. Despite the ISO on the Nikon being 4x the Olympus, they are about the same as far as noise. The Nikon colouring looks better too. Yea, but I don't shoot at high ISO so for my money the E510 is better. |
#18
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$230 12MP camera?
Doug Jewell wrote:
Now go to the drop down list and choose "Barbie, detail without flash". The Nikon is at ISO 3200, the Olympus is only at ISO 800. Despite the ISO on the Nikon being 4x the Olympus, they are about the same as far as noise. The Nikon colouring looks better too. Actually, I wouldn't put a lot of faith in that site. Just looked at a few other cameras, and it appears they don't make much effort to ensure the cameras are shooting in consistent settings. I picked a few cameras at random, and they all had the main scene rendered at different sizes, and the main scene seems to change quite a bit too. If they can't maintain consistency in the scene, how are we to know if they are using comparable camera settings? Other than the barbie without flash, they don't say what ISO, what white balance setting, what lens, what aperture, what shutter speed etc, they have taken the photo with. Well, regardless of their testing methods I still agree with their bottom line so I don't think the smaller sensor means all that much in the end, especially considering it is quite a bit cheaper than what Nikon and Canon offers in this range. "The E-510 is the most complete general public reflex: stabilization, anti-dust, LCD aiming, and 10 MP. With excellent ergonomics and very good image quality, this camera rivals and sometimes surpasses the current leaders, the Canon 400D and Nikon D40x." |
#19
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$230 12MP camera?
John Adams wrote:
Doug Jewell wrote: Now go to the drop down list and choose "Barbie, detail without flash". The Nikon is at ISO 3200, the Olympus is only at ISO 800. Despite the ISO on the Nikon being 4x the Olympus, they are about the same as far as noise. The Nikon colouring looks better too. Actually, I wouldn't put a lot of faith in that site. Just looked at a few other cameras, and it appears they don't make much effort to ensure the cameras are shooting in consistent settings. I picked a few cameras at random, and they all had the main scene rendered at different sizes, and the main scene seems to change quite a bit too. If they can't maintain consistency in the scene, how are we to know if they are using comparable camera settings? Other than the barbie without flash, they don't say what ISO, what white balance setting, what lens, what aperture, what shutter speed etc, they have taken the photo with. Well, regardless of their testing methods I still agree with their bottom line so I don't think the smaller sensor means all that much in the end, especially considering it is quite a bit cheaper than what Nikon and Canon offers in this range. A testing method without consistency, is no test at all. I could very easily make a $99 :&S look better than a $10000 SLR, simply by having a poor combination of shutter, aperture, ISO & white balance. How do we know that in that first shot, the focus point was set the same? How do we know that the softness in the Nikon wasn't because it was shot wide open, while the Olympus was stopped down? How do we know the softness isn't because for whatever reason it didn't focus accurately? As much as dpreview is biased, at least with their tests they try to ensure consistency in camera settings. "The E-510 is the most complete general public reflex: stabilization, anti-dust, LCD aiming, and 10 MP. With excellent ergonomics and very good image quality, this camera rivals and sometimes surpasses the current leaders, the Canon 400D and Nikon D40x." I have no doubt that most of the above is true, but what is also true is that in some circumstances (and ISO above 200 is one), the Nikon and Canon wipe the floor with the Olympus. The testing site that you linked to doesn't provide enough information to truly make the comparison. There is only one shot where they post information about the camera settings, and that is barbie detail without flash. Here the Nikon is tested at ISO 3200, the Olympus at ISO 800. I noticed the K10D was at ISO 100 - that is no way to make comparisons. In a lot of the shots, the image size is different - how can you compare sharpness between 2 images where the subject is at different sizes? What you say about the E510 may be true, but that site doesn't provide proof of the matter. |
#20
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$230 12MP camera?
Richard Karash wrote:
In article , SMS Ģ Stay away from the Olympus digital SLRs because they use a smaller sensor and are noisier. I'm sorry, but I think the Olympus dSLR's and other Four-Thirds cameras are excelent. If you intended that to be a counter-point, you missed. I suspect you can't go far wrong with a dSLR today. That's the point! But still the Oly is noisier at ISO 400, and the default NR settings (even at ISO 100, as here) can make strong men weep: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse510/page22.asp -Wolfgang |
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