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#51
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The Value Of An Apology, At Least From A Republican's Perspective!!
In message , Bill Graham
writes I loaned my neighbor a gun. I thought he would use it to defend himself against intruders. Instead, he went out and shot a dozen people. Now, I am worried about what I should do about it. So, I asked Chris H what he thinks I should do. Chris says, "You loaned him the gun to begin with." No I say you gave a known psychopath a gun and trained him and him friends to use it against the gang down the road. Despite being told before you started that you were training an unstable psychopath who would use the gun and training on friends and bad guys alike. So, I say, "Yes, yes.....but now, what should I do? and, Chris says, "If you hadn't loaned him your gun to begin with, you wouldn't have the problem you have now." And, I say, "Even if that's true, I still would like to find a way to solve the present situation. Do you have any suggestions?" OK so looking at history we know several things 1 you didn't listen to advice 2 you took a very short term view 3 You ignored the history of the area 4 you ignored the medical records of the psychopaths 5 You have ****ed off the whole neighbourhood by training and arming the known psychopaths to take out the gang in the next street 6 The known psychopaths took out the gang in the next street but also attack the good people in this street 7 Now trying to stop the known psychopaths you have killed half the good people in the street. Now you now want a "quick fix" shot term answer whilst not listening to what you are told (see points 1,2,3 and 4). Those who do not listen to history are doomed to repeat it. And Chris says, "You Americans always do the wrong things". So this is the logic of Chris H. It solves nothing, and is of no use or help at all..... See points 1,2,3,4 Until you understand how you got here you can't get out of it. The major problem is the US perception of the situation and the problem. -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ |
#52
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The Value Of An Apology, At Least From A Republican's Perspective!!
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#53
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The Value Of An Apology, At Least From A Republican's Perspective!!
Bill Graham wrote:
"Savageduck" wrote in message I was just commenting on your twisted take on history. Yes. Well, in logic, you are very much like an American Chris H. It's very difficult for me to carry on an intelligent discussion with anyone on this forum Maybe if you got an education ... -- Ray Fischer |
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The Value Of An Apology, At Least From A Republican's Perspective!!
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The Value Of An Apology, At Least From A Republican's Perspective!!
Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-10-02 09:26:24 -0700, (Ray Fischer) said: Bill Graham wrote: "Savageduck" wrote in message I was just commenting on your twisted take on history. Yes. Well, in logic, you are very much like an American Chris H. It's very difficult for me to carry on an intelligent discussion with anyone on this forum Maybe if you got an education ... It's OK Ray, he knows how to use an abacus. I really doubt that. An abacus requires some skill to use. He just doesn't know how to put the results into an historic context because he didn't think that class valuable, because it was taught by some leftist, socialist, commie, Democrat, union flag waving professor who was stealing his money by telling him stuff he didn't want to know. Bill would rather fabricate his own versions of history and Law, than have to deal with historic fact and responsibility to comply with any inconvenient Law. Bigots cannot cope with the truth. Never have been able to cope with the truth. What usually happens is they die off and are replaced with people who haven't learned the old bigotries. -- Ray Fischer |
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The Value Of An Apology, At Least From A Republican's Perspective!!
"DRS" wrote in message . au... "Chris H" wrote in message In message , DRS writes [...] And why the US is seen as a rouge stage by most of the world. A rouge state? Only by the wingnuts in here. It is not acceptable to merely deem someone a terrorist or a criminal by fiat. It must be established by evidence. Afghanistan offered to give OBL to the US is the USA had any credible evidence.... the USA could not produce any evidence and the Afghans did not turn him over. SO the USA illegally invaded. There is genuine dispute among international jurists about the legitimacy of the Taliban government given the state of armed resistance to it. The "Taliban GOVERNMENT"?! You seem to be saying that there is some question about whether the Taliban is or is not the legitimate government there because the Afghan government and army are showing "armed resistance to it." That certainly seems an odd view. |
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The Value Of An Apology, At Least From A Republican's Perspective!!
"Chris H" wrote in message ... In message , DRS writes "Neil Harrington" wrote in message [...] The Geneva Convention does not, as far as I know, offer any protection whatever to combatants who are not part of any recognized military force. If you think it does, show me where. Combatants captured not in proper uniform are not POWs and have no rights at all -- they can be and have been just executed on the spot. That's been the rule for at least a few hundred years. Every person has rights. Many of the detainees at Guananemo have been shown to have not been involved in terrorist activities and were captured by mistake. However the experience of several years illegal detention and torture turned most of them and their families into at least sympathisers of Al- Qeada. Worse, it has gotten them used to good food and other amenities that they'll have to do without when they go home again. I read recently that the average Guantanamo prisoner has gained 20 pounds while there. That is why civilised countries insist on the rule of law, where no person may be detained without due process, something the Bush administration fought every step of the way. And why the US is seen as a rouge stage by most of the world. Until they need help again, and then all is forgiven."We've changed our minds, Americans are wonderful Send money." It is not acceptable to merely deem someone a terrorist or a criminal by fiat. It must be established by evidence. Afghanistan offered to give OBL to the US is the USA had any credible evidence.... the USA could not produce any evidence and the Afghans did not turn him over. SO the USA illegally invaded. We "illegally invaded" whom? We have been there and are there now trying to shore up the Afghan government itself, which admittedly seems a hopeless task, not to mention thankless. As far as "Afghanistan offered to give OBL to the US (etc.)" is concerned, what nonsense. What on earth makes you think the Afghan government could have made good on any such offer? The government's support from its own people, police and army is marginal to none. Now I think any reasonable person would admit that a little waterboarding is kinder and more generous treatment than being summarily executed. There is no such thing as "a little waterboarding". It is torture and under the terms of the international agreement signed by Ronald Reagan and ratified by the US Senate America has no lawful option but to prosecute those who engaged in it. Agreed. The right wing in the USA sound just like the N.Koreans, Chinese and the Israelis. You have a very strange world view. Next time your country gets its ass in a sling in some war, I trust you will look elsewhere for help and not across the big pond to the country that got you through those two big ones. Or do you suppose the *left* wing in the U.S. will rush to your aid? |
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The Value Of An Apology, At Least From A Republican's Perspective!!
On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 20:08:55 -0400, John A.
wrote: On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 19:25:26 -0400, tony cooper wrote: On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 22:51:48 +0100, Chris H wrote: However this was fully discussed in 2001 in UK.current-events.terrorisum Well that's sorted, then. Nothing like a bunch of know-nothing net kooks to set us straight on "terrorisum". Attempting to refute his arguments with ad-hominems and pointing out spelling errors, while a usenet staple (or, rather, cliche',) does not do much for your side of the argument. Just sayin'. I don't have a side of any argument. "Ad hominem" isn't hyphenated, by the way. Also, it is singular since it is a style or type of argument or a rebuttal in the form of an attack on the person. If you choose to correct me, do it properly. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |
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The Value Of An Apology, At Least From A Republican's Perspective!!
Neil Harrington wrote:
"Chris H" wrote in message That is why civilised countries insist on the rule of law, where no person may be detained without due process, something the Bush administration fought every step of the way. And why the US is seen as a rouge stage by most of the world. Until they need help again, and then all is forgiven."We've changed our minds, Americans are wonderful Send money." The world's biggest debtor, by far, is the United States. It is not acceptable to merely deem someone a terrorist or a criminal by fiat. It must be established by evidence. Afghanistan offered to give OBL to the US is the USA had any credible evidence.... the USA could not produce any evidence and the Afghans did not turn him over. SO the USA illegally invaded. We "illegally invaded" whom? Afghanistan. Pay attention. We have been there and are there now trying to shore up the Afghan government itself, After overthrowing the previous government. As far as "Afghanistan offered to give OBL to the US (etc.)" is concerned, what nonsense. What on earth makes you think the Afghan government could have made good on any such offer? What makes you think they the couldn't? There is no such thing as "a little waterboarding". It is torture and under the terms of the international agreement signed by Ronald Reagan and ratified by the US Senate America has no lawful option but to prosecute those who engaged in it. Agreed. The right wing in the USA sound just like the N.Koreans, Chinese and the Israelis. You have a very strange world view. Your world view has been shown to be flat-out wrong again and again. Next time your country gets its ass in a sling in some war, I trust you will look elsewhere for help and not across More of the jingoistic bigotry. -- Ray Fischer |
#60
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The Value Of An Apology, At Least From A Republican's Perspective!!
In message , tony cooper
writes On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 22:51:48 +0100, Chris H wrote: However this was fully discussed in 2001 in UK.current-events.terrorisum Well that's sorted, then. Nothing like a bunch of know-nothing net kooks to set us straight on "terrorisum". See link http://www.phaedsys.com/news/index.html The "kooks" I spend my time with are people at the defence industry and counter terrorist business. We get to talk to a LOT of people who know what is going on. Not TV programs or newspapers with a political bias or someone's conspiracy web blog let alone some losers in the pub... (if you listened to them the SAS has a fighting strength of 10,000 :-) Other "kooks" are friends currently serving in the UK military in Iraq and Afghanistan, friends in some companies like Aegis etc. We are currently supporting kit in Afghanistan and Iraq (and other places, who mentioned Africa? You lot will hear about it later when the news people catch up) My own personal experiences having years of experience in the Military, from the 1970's, Some of it on counter terrorist work and having been to the Middle East myself and seen what Saddam can do (supported by the USA) first hand. This is why I have so few links. There aren't links to conversations held here http://www.counterterrorexpo.com/ or here http://www.dsei.co.uk/ or here http://www.mae-show.com/ or here http://www.phaedsys.com/news/news0908scsc.html (yes I was presenting to the Ministry of Defence, though Tony seems to think he knows better than they do.... :-) or here http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll...n=0.097544,0.1 45569&t=h&z=13 and here http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll...spn=0.001497,0. 002275&t=h&z=19 Or here http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll...spn=0.011798,0. 018196&t=h&z=16 I have photos taken at these places but there is little point in posting them all I will get is there is no proof I took them or where they are or when they were taken.... No exif on film :-( You are either in the loop or like most of you here out of it and just chattering about biased media coverage or what an equally ill informed mate said in the bar. I use my real name and if I was making it up there are many who know me in real life (several in this NG) who would have blown my cover if I was making it up. Especially as I supply them with kit and advice but what do the MoD know about Iraq and Afghanistan? Most here calling me a "kook" don't even use real id's and email addresses let alone have any real information other than stuff on the TV and the web. They have no credibility at all. They do have a political bias which clouds their view of the media they use for information to make up for their real lack of any first hand knowledge. Now lets get back to photography... something most of you do have some idea about. -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ |
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