DSLR shutter and mirror slap really not fit for high megapixel cameras

In article , RichA
wrote:

Pretty much a given.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5ds-sr

Subject: DSLR shutter and mirror slap really not fit for high megapixel cameras
Link: To a high MP DSLR that has a system to avoid mirror slap.

So... uh, come again?



--
Sandman

On 2015-12-18 07:49:41 +0000, Sandman said:

In article , RichA
wrote:

Pretty much a given.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5ds-sr

Subject: DSLR shutter and mirror slap really not fit for high megapixel cameras
Link: To a high MP DSLR that has a system to avoid mirror slap.

So... uh, come again?

I think Rich was trying to tell us through the dpreveiw article, that
Canon has addressed the issue and Nikon is now lagging behind with the
various D8(x)0 family DSLRs susceptible to perceived IQ degradation due
to mirror slap instability.

I don't have either camera so I just read about it. That might well
explain some things I have seen here with D800 shots. Then again, it
might not.
--
Regards,

Savageduck

In article 2015121800194668377-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck wrote:

RichA:
Pretty much a given.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5ds-sr

Sandman:
Subject: DSLR shutter and mirror slap really not fit for high
megapixel cameras Link: To a high MP DSLR that has a system to
avoid mirror slap.

So... uh, come again?

I think Rich was trying to tell us through the dpreveiw article,
that Canon has addressed the issue and Nikon is now lagging behind
with the various D8(x)0 family DSLRs susceptible to perceived IQ
degradation due to mirror slap instability.

I don't have either camera so I just read about it. That might well
explain some things I have seen here with D800 shots. Then again, it
might not.

Mirror slap was reduced in the D810. It's not as big of a problem with the 36MP
D8X0 as with the 50MP 5DS though.



--
Sandman

On 2015-12-18 08:28:22 +0000, Sandman said:

In article 2015121800194668377-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck wrote:

RichA:
Pretty much a given.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5ds-sr

Sandman:
Subject: DSLR shutter and mirror slap really not fit for high
megapixel cameras Link: To a high MP DSLR that has a system to
avoid mirror slap.

So... uh, come again?

I think Rich was trying to tell us through the dpreveiw article,
that Canon has addressed the issue and Nikon is now lagging behind
with the various D8(x)0 family DSLRs susceptible to perceived IQ
degradation due to mirror slap instability.

I don't have either camera so I just read about it. That might well
explain some things I have seen here with D800 shots. Then again, it
might not.

Mirror slap was reduced in the D810. It's not as big of a problem with the 36MP
D8X0 as with the 50MP 5DS though.

Perhaps not the D810. However, this would be a fairly good explanation
for some of the soft images PeterN has shared. I am thinking in
particular of his shot of the deer/elk where the entire image seems to
be OoF without a logical explanation. Especially given that he was
using quality glass with his D800. My first thought was camera shake,
now I wonder if mirror slap was the true problem.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

In article 2015121800402662429-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck wrote:

RichA:
Pretty much a given.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5ds-sr

Sandman:
Subject: DSLR shutter and mirror slap really not fit
for high megapixel cameras Link: To a high MP DSLR that has a
system to avoid mirror slap.

So... uh, come again?

Savageduck:
I think Rich was trying to tell us through the dpreveiw article,
that Canon has addressed the issue and Nikon is now lagging
behind with the various D8(x)0 family DSLRs susceptible to
perceived IQ degradation due to mirror slap instability.

I don't have either camera so I just read about it. That might
well explain some things I have seen here with D800 shots. Then
again, it might not.

Sandman:
Mirror slap was reduced in the D810. It's not as big of a problem
with the 36MP D8X0 as with the 50MP 5DS though.

Perhaps not the D810. However, this would be a fairly good
explanation for some of the soft images PeterN has shared.

No, he has the D800, and I have the D800E and my images are always sharp. His
problem is usually using the camera wrong, or using a teleconverter when it
isn't needed.

The D800E is even more susceptible to both shutter and mirror slap. And while
lab tests would show that, it's still marginal when viewing the image as a
whole, and Peter's images are rarely "marginally" blurred.

I am thinking in particular of his shot of the deer/elk where the
entire image seems to be OoF without a logical explanation.
Especially given that he was using quality glass with his D800. My
first thought was camera shake, now I wonder if mirror slap was the
true problem.

In short, no. While mirror slap may have contributed some %0.5 of the resulting
blur, most of it is obvious user error. I don't remember this particular image,
however, so I'm saying this generally about his images.

--
Sandman

On 2015-12-18 09:34:48 +0000, Sandman said:

In article 2015121800402662429-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck wrote:

RichA:
Pretty much a given.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5ds-sr

Sandman:
Subject: DSLR shutter and mirror slap really not fit
for high megapixel cameras Link: To a high MP DSLR that has a
system to avoid mirror slap.

So... uh, come again?

Savageduck:
I think Rich was trying to tell us through the dpreveiw article,
that Canon has addressed the issue and Nikon is now lagging
behind with the various D8(x)0 family DSLRs susceptible to
perceived IQ degradation due to mirror slap instability.

I don't have either camera so I just read about it. That might
well explain some things I have seen here with D800 shots. Then
again, it might not.

Sandman:
Mirror slap was reduced in the D810. It's not as big of a problem
with the 36MP D8X0 as with the 50MP 5DS though.

Perhaps not the D810. However, this would be a fairly good
explanation for some of the soft images PeterN has shared.

No, he has the D800, and I have the D800E and my images are always sharp. His
problem is usually using the camera wrong, or using a teleconverter when it
isn't needed.

You should read the full post before responding and stating that
somebody is wrong. If you read a little further you will note that I
didn't say he was using a D810. Here is what I wrote:
"Especially given that he was using quality glass with his D800."


The D800E is even more susceptible to both shutter and mirror slap. And while
lab tests would show that, it's still marginal when viewing the image as a
whole, and Peter's images are rarely "marginally" blurred.

I am thinking in particular of his shot of the deer/elk where the
entire image seems to be OoF without a logical explanation.
Especially given that he was using quality glass with his D800. My
first thought was camera shake, now I wonder if mirror slap was the
true problem.

In short, no. While mirror slap may have contributed some %0.5 of the resulting
blur, most of it is obvious user error. I don't remember this particular image,
however, so I'm saying this generally about his images.

Here, he has not taken it down yet.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/_20151122_Bronz%20Zoo_0645.jpg

....and looking at the EXIF it doesn't look as if he used the TC.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

In article 2015121806182269778-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck
wrote:

RichA:
Pretty much a given.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5ds-sr

Sandman:
Subject: DSLR shutter and mirror slap really not
fit for high megapixel cameras Link: To a high MP DSLR
that has a system to avoid mirror slap.

So... uh, come again?

Savageduck:
I think Rich was trying to tell us through the
dpreveiw article, that Canon has addressed the issue and
Nikon is now lagging behind with the various D8(x)0 family
DSLRs susceptible to perceived IQ degradation due to mirror
slap instability.

I don't have either camera so I just read about it. That
might well explain some things I have seen here with D800
shots. Then again, it might not.

Sandman:
Mirror slap was reduced in the D810. It's not as big
of a problem with the 36MP D8X0 as with the 50MP 5DS though.

Savageduck:
Perhaps not the D810. However, this would be a fairly good
explanation for some of the soft images PeterN has shared.

Sandman:
No, he has the D800, and I have the D800E and my images are always
sharp. His problem is usually using the camera wrong, or using a
teleconverter when it isn't needed.

You should read the full post before responding and stating that
somebody is wrong. If you read a little further you will note that I
"Especially given that he was using quality glass with his D800."

Sorry, my intention was not to make it seem like I was correcting you, the
"no" was in reference to your "would be a fairly good explanation for..."
part of your paragraph above. Sorry for the confusion. I knew you knew what
camera he uses.

Sandman:
The D800E is even more susceptible to both shutter and mirror
slap. And while lab tests would show that, it's still marginal
when viewing the image as a whole, and Peter's images are rarely
"marginally" blurred.

Savageduck:
I am thinking in particular of his shot of the deer/elk where
the entire image seems to be OoF without a logical explanation.
Especially given that he was using quality glass with his D800.
My first thought was camera shake, now I wonder if mirror slap
was the true problem.

Sandman:
In short, no. While mirror slap may have contributed some %0.5 of
the resulting blur, most of it is obvious user error. I don't
remember this particular image, however, so I'm saying this
generally about his images.

Here, he has not taken it down yet.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/_20151122_Bronz%20Zoo_0645.jpg

...and looking at the EXIF it doesn't look as if he used the TC.

Either Peter has sever problems with shaky hands or he fell while taking this
picture. At 1/125 it should be pretty crisp. Sure, there's a lot that's out
of focus, but you have a lot of camera shake blur in the leaves on the ground
(the part of the image that would have been mostly in focus and is
stationary. Both the deer (?) and the twig/tree would be in motion for this
shot, at least the animals head. I still think that 1/125 handheld should
have been more than sufficient to capture this.

Just to show as an example, here's a shot of a flower I took with a 400mm
focal length, at 1/25 (as opposed to 1/125) shutter speed and handheld:

http://jonaseklundh.se/files/mirrorslap.jpg

As you can see, when zooming in to 1:1 it isn't 100% crispy sharp, and
perhaps that's at least somewhat attributable to mirror slap. But as you can
also note, during similar (or in fact, actually worse) parameters, the D800
does not create as shaky and blurry photos as Peter's .

--
Sandman

On 2015-12-18 15:20:29 +0000, Sandman said:

In article 2015121806182269778-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck
wrote:

RichA:
Pretty much a given.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5ds-sr

Sandman:
Subject: DSLR shutter and mirror slap really not
fit for high megapixel cameras Link: To a high MP DSLR
that has a system to avoid mirror slap.

So... uh, come again?

Savageduck:
I think Rich was trying to tell us through the
dpreveiw article, that Canon has addressed the issue and
Nikon is now lagging behind with the various D8(x)0 family
DSLRs susceptible to perceived IQ degradation due to mirror
slap instability.

I don't have either camera so I just read about it. That
might well explain some things I have seen here with D800
shots. Then again, it might not.

Sandman:
Mirror slap was reduced in the D810. It's not as big
of a problem with the 36MP D8X0 as with the 50MP 5DS though.

Savageduck:
Perhaps not the D810. However, this would be a fairly good
explanation for some of the soft images PeterN has shared.

Sandman:
No, he has the D800, and I have the D800E and my images are always
sharp. His problem is usually using the camera wrong, or using a
teleconverter when it isn't needed.

You should read the full post before responding and stating that
somebody is wrong. If you read a little further you will note that I
"Especially given that he was using quality glass with his D800."

Sorry, my intention was not to make it seem like I was correcting you, the
"no" was in reference to your "would be a fairly good explanation for..."
part of your paragraph above. Sorry for the confusion. I knew you knew what
camera he uses.

OK.

Sandman:
The D800E is even more susceptible to both shutter and mirror
slap. And while lab tests would show that, it's still marginal
when viewing the image as a whole, and Peter's images are rarely
"marginally" blurred.

Savageduck:
I am thinking in particular of his shot of the deer/elk where
the entire image seems to be OoF without a logical explanation.
Especially given that he was using quality glass with his D800.
My first thought was camera shake, now I wonder if mirror slap
was the true problem.

Sandman:
In short, no. While mirror slap may have contributed some %0.5 of
the resulting blur, most of it is obvious user error. I don't
remember this particular image, however, so I'm saying this
generally about his images.

Here, he has not taken it down yet.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/_20151122_Bronz%20Zoo_0645.jpg

...and looking at the EXIF it doesn't look as if he used the TC.

Either Peter has sever problems with shaky hands or he fell while taking this
picture. At 1/125 it should be pretty crisp. Sure, there's a lot that's out
of focus, but you have a lot of camera shake blur in the leaves on the ground
(the part of the image that would have been mostly in focus and is
stationary. Both the deer (?) and the twig/tree would be in motion for this
shot, at least the animals head. I still think that 1/125 handheld should
have been more than sufficient to capture this.

Whatever the issue with that particular shot, it has already been
discussed. I just raised mirror slap as another potential cause. I
still believe that camera handling, and his PP methodology is the
primary problem for Peter, inspite of his use of a monopod. He has a
whole bunch of issues going with his, and his wife's health and is
rightfully more concerned with that than photography at the moment.




--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 12/18/2015 9:18 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2015-12-18 09:34:48 +0000, Sandman said:

In article 2015121800402662429-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

RichA:
Pretty much a given.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5ds-sr

Sandman:
Subject: DSLR shutter and mirror slap really not fit
for high megapixel cameras Link: To a high MP DSLR that has a
system to avoid mirror slap.

So... uh, come again?

Savageduck:
I think Rich was trying to tell us through the dpreveiw article,
that Canon has addressed the issue and Nikon is now lagging
behind with the various D8(x)0 family DSLRs susceptible to
perceived IQ degradation due to mirror slap instability.

I don't have either camera so I just read about it. That might
well explain some things I have seen here with D800 shots. Then
again, it might not.

Sandman:
Mirror slap was reduced in the D810. It's not as big of a problem
with the 36MP D8X0 as with the 50MP 5DS though.

Perhaps not the D810. However, this would be a fairly good
explanation for some of the soft images PeterN has shared.

No, he has the D800, and I have the D800E and my images are always
sharp. His
problem is usually using the camera wrong, or using a teleconverter
when it
isn't needed.

You should read the full post before responding and stating that
somebody is wrong. If you read a little further you will note that I
didn't say he was using a D810. Here is what I wrote:
"Especially given that he was using quality glass with his D800."


The D800E is even more susceptible to both shutter and mirror slap.
And while
lab tests would show that, it's still marginal when viewing the image
as a
whole, and Peter's images are rarely "marginally" blurred.

I am thinking in particular of his shot of the deer/elk where the
entire image seems to be OoF without a logical explanation.
Especially given that he was using quality glass with his D800. My
first thought was camera shake, now I wonder if mirror slap was the
true problem.

In short, no. While mirror slap may have contributed some %0.5 of the
resulting
blur, most of it is obvious user error. I don't remember this
particular image,
however, so I'm saying this generally about his images.

Here, he has not taken it down yet.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/_20151122_Bronz%20Zoo_0645.jpg


...and looking at the EXIF it doesn't look as if he used the TC.



I didn't

--
PeterN

On 12/18/2015 11:36 AM, Savageduck wrote:

snip


Whatever the issue with that particular shot, it has already been
discussed. I just raised mirror slap as another potential cause. I still
believe that camera handling, and his PP methodology is the primary
problem for Peter, inspite of his use of a monopod. He has a whole bunch
of issues going with his, and his wife's health and is rightfully more
concerned with that than photography at the moment.


Photography provides a good way to temporarily escape from reality. I
think it may have been a VR issue.


--
PeterN