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What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 8th 18, 12:09 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Sammy[_2_]
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Posts: 1
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

What exactly is different about a lens in Macro mode? Does the lens alter
its optics in some way to focus more closely?

My Galaxy S7 lens doesn't seem to have enough space inside to shift any
elements in a different way. Although my point and shoot has a lens which
comes forward and is made of 6 elements in 5 groups. How do these cameras
provide Macro mode?

If a camera can provide close up macro focusing then why isn't it provided
as part of Normal mode?
  #2  
Old June 8th 18, 03:12 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

In article , Sammy
wrote:

What exactly is different about a lens in Macro mode? Does the lens alter
its optics in some way to focus more closely?


yes.
  #3  
Old June 8th 18, 03:18 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Ken Hart[_4_]
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Posts: 569
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

On 06/08/2018 07:09 AM, Sammy wrote:
What exactly is different about a lens in Macro mode? Does the lens alter
its optics in some way to focus more closely?

My Galaxy S7 lens doesn't seem to have enough space inside to shift any
elements in a different way. Although my point and shoot has a lens which
comes forward and is made of 6 elements in 5 groups. How do these cameras
provide Macro mode?

If a camera can provide close up macro focusing then why isn't it provided
as part of Normal mode?



The simple answer is in order to focus more closely, the lens must be
moved farther away from the focal plane (the film or image sensor). This
is why, in the "old days", we had bellows units (or extension tubes)
that could be fitted between the lens and camera body. A common large
format view camera is designed with a bellows and focusing rail that may
allow the lens to move away from the film sufficiently to give 1:1
magnification.

That's the simple answer, and generally applies to a common single
element convex lens. Very few cameras use a single element convex lens-
the Holga is a common exception.

If you want an exact, specific answer, it will cost you: probably a PhD
in physics and light, and in mechanics. See you back here in six to
eight years!

The cheap and dirty macro method is to get a set of close-up lenses that
mount on the front of your camera lens. I get quite reasonable results
(good enough for eBay) by holding a +2 close-up lens in front of my
point & shoot camera. I get exceptional results by mounting a bellows or
extension tubes on my 35mm SLR and using a macro lens.

--
Ken Hart

  #4  
Old June 8th 18, 06:22 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Sammy[_3_]
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Posts: 1
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 10:18:35 -0400, Ken Hart wrote:

On 06/08/2018 07:09 AM, Sammy wrote:
What exactly is different about a lens in Macro mode? Does the lens alter
its optics in some way to focus more closely?

My Galaxy S7 lens doesn't seem to have enough space inside to shift any
elements in a different way. Although my point and shoot has a lens which
comes forward and is made of 6 elements in 5 groups. How do these cameras
provide Macro mode?

If a camera can provide close up macro focusing then why isn't it provided
as part of Normal mode?



The simple answer is in order to focus more closely, the lens must be
moved farther away from the focal plane (the film or image sensor). This
is why, in the "old days", we had bellows units (or extension tubes)
that could be fitted between the lens and camera body. A common large
format view camera is designed with a bellows and focusing rail that may
allow the lens to move away from the film sufficiently to give 1:1
magnification.

That's the simple answer, and generally applies to a common single
element convex lens. Very few cameras use a single element convex lens-
the Holga is a common exception.

If you want an exact, specific answer, it will cost you: probably a PhD
in physics and light, and in mechanics. See you back here in six to
eight years!

The cheap and dirty macro method is to get a set of close-up lenses that
mount on the front of your camera lens. I get quite reasonable results
(good enough for eBay) by holding a +2 close-up lens in front of my
point & shoot camera. I get exceptional results by mounting a bellows or
extension tubes on my 35mm SLR and using a macro lens.


Thanks for the answer. My smartphone camera and my point and shoot don't
seem to have any arrangement to move lenses further out or do much anything
different.

Is Macro mode on such cameras essentially a con because their Normal mode
can focus as close as macro mode?
  #5  
Old June 8th 18, 06:31 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

In article , Sammy
wrote:

What exactly is different about a lens in Macro mode? Does the lens alter
its optics in some way to focus more closely?

My Galaxy S7 lens doesn't seem to have enough space inside to shift any
elements in a different way. Although my point and shoot has a lens which
comes forward and is made of 6 elements in 5 groups. How do these cameras
provide Macro mode?

If a camera can provide close up macro focusing then why isn't it provided
as part of Normal mode?


The simple answer is in order to focus more closely, the lens must be
moved farther away from the focal plane (the film or image sensor). This
is why, in the "old days", we had bellows units (or extension tubes)
that could be fitted between the lens and camera body. A common large
format view camera is designed with a bellows and focusing rail that may
allow the lens to move away from the film sufficiently to give 1:1
magnification.

That's the simple answer, and generally applies to a common single
element convex lens. Very few cameras use a single element convex lens-
the Holga is a common exception.

If you want an exact, specific answer, it will cost you: probably a PhD
in physics and light, and in mechanics. See you back here in six to
eight years!

The cheap and dirty macro method is to get a set of close-up lenses that
mount on the front of your camera lens. I get quite reasonable results
(good enough for eBay) by holding a +2 close-up lens in front of my
point & shoot camera. I get exceptional results by mounting a bellows or
extension tubes on my 35mm SLR and using a macro lens.


Thanks for the answer. My smartphone camera and my point and shoot don't
seem to have any arrangement to move lenses further out or do much anything
different.


not all lenses do because macro is nowhere near as common as ordinary
photos.

Is Macro mode on such cameras essentially a con because their Normal mode
can focus as close as macro mode?


no, and it can't.

if you want to do macro with a lens that lacks a macro setting or can't
focus close enough, get a closeup lens attachment.

there are a number of them available, along with telephoto, wide angle,
fisheye and others.
  #6  
Old June 8th 18, 10:06 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Neil[_9_]
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Posts: 521
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

On 6/8/2018 1:22 PM, Sammy wrote:
On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 10:18:35 -0400, Ken Hart wrote:

On 06/08/2018 07:09 AM, Sammy wrote:
What exactly is different about a lens in Macro mode? Does the lens alter
its optics in some way to focus more closely?

My Galaxy S7 lens doesn't seem to have enough space inside to shift any
elements in a different way. Although my point and shoot has a lens which
comes forward and is made of 6 elements in 5 groups. How do these cameras
provide Macro mode?

If a camera can provide close up macro focusing then why isn't it provided
as part of Normal mode?



The simple answer is in order to focus more closely, the lens must be
moved farther away from the focal plane (the film or image sensor). This
is why, in the "old days", we had bellows units (or extension tubes)
that could be fitted between the lens and camera body. A common large
format view camera is designed with a bellows and focusing rail that may
allow the lens to move away from the film sufficiently to give 1:1
magnification.

That's the simple answer, and generally applies to a common single
element convex lens. Very few cameras use a single element convex lens-
the Holga is a common exception.

If you want an exact, specific answer, it will cost you: probably a PhD
in physics and light, and in mechanics. See you back here in six to
eight years!

The cheap and dirty macro method is to get a set of close-up lenses that
mount on the front of your camera lens. I get quite reasonable results
(good enough for eBay) by holding a +2 close-up lens in front of my
point & shoot camera. I get exceptional results by mounting a bellows or
extension tubes on my 35mm SLR and using a macro lens.


Thanks for the answer. My smartphone camera and my point and shoot don't
seem to have any arrangement to move lenses further out or do much anything
different.

Is Macro mode on such cameras essentially a con because their Normal mode
can focus as close as macro mode?

How closely a lens can focus depends on its design. It's not unusual for
better digital cameras to have lenses with very close-focus capability.
Others use digital enlargement to provide "macro" modes that aren't
optically macro, but for some the results are often acceptable.

--
best regards,

Neil
  #7  
Old June 9th 18, 06:48 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
David Taylor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,146
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

On 08/06/2018 12:09, Sammy wrote:
What exactly is different about a lens in Macro mode? Does the lens alter
its optics in some way to focus more closely?

My Galaxy S7 lens doesn't seem to have enough space inside to shift any
elements in a different way. Although my point and shoot has a lens which
comes forward and is made of 6 elements in 5 groups. How do these cameras
provide Macro mode?

If a camera can provide close up macro focusing then why isn't it provided
as part of Normal mode?


In some cases, it's because it would slow down focussing if the software
had to search from a very close macro out to infinity each time to
determine the best focus point. In other cases - e.g. a macro lens for
a interchangeable lens camera - the lens may be designed to work best
when focussing close (have fewer imperfections), and of course it has
that closer focussing range.

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
  #8  
Old June 9th 18, 08:30 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
newshound
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Posts: 458
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

On 09/06/2018 06:48, David Taylor wrote:
On 08/06/2018 12:09, Sammy wrote:
What exactly is different about a lens in Macro mode?Â* Does the lens
alter
its optics in some way to focus more closely?

My Galaxy S7 lens doesn't seem to have enough space inside to shift any
elements in a different way.Â* Although my point and shoot has a lens
which
comes forward and is made of 6 elements in 5 groups.Â* How do these
cameras
provide Macro mode?

If a camera can provide close up macro focusing then why isn't it
provided
as part of Normal mode?


In some cases, it's because it would slow down focussing if the software
had to search from a very close macro out to infinity each time to
determine the best focus point.Â* In other cases - e.g. a macro lens for
a interchangeable lens camera - the lens may be designed to work best
when focussing close (have fewer imperfections), and of course it has
that closer focussing range.

Agreed, also reduces the risk of the camera trying to focus on something
between the lens and subject, like wire fencing, window glass, or even
raindrops on the front element. I don't know whether my canon compacts
also shift an internal element in macro mode, but they certainly do a
remarkably good job.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

  #9  
Old June 9th 18, 09:47 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 13,611
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

On Sat, 9 Jun 2018 06:48:43 +0100, David Taylor
wrote:

On 08/06/2018 12:09, Sammy wrote:
What exactly is different about a lens in Macro mode? Does the lens alter
its optics in some way to focus more closely?

My Galaxy S7 lens doesn't seem to have enough space inside to shift any
elements in a different way. Although my point and shoot has a lens which
comes forward and is made of 6 elements in 5 groups. How do these cameras
provide Macro mode?

If a camera can provide close up macro focusing then why isn't it provided
as part of Normal mode?


In some cases, it's because it would slow down focussing if the software
had to search from a very close macro out to infinity each time to
determine the best focus point. In other cases - e.g. a macro lens for
a interchangeable lens camera - the lens may be designed to work best
when focussing close (have fewer imperfections), and of course it has
that closer focussing range.


My oild Nikon 105mm Macro lens has a switch to limit the focus range
to the closer distances. When this is 'off' the camera can spend an
extrordinary amount of time focussing in and out without ever finding
macro focus. The lens is of the old screw driver drive which is
relatively slow.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #10  
Old June 9th 18, 02:45 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne[_2_]
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Posts: 696
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

On 2018-06-08 07:09, Sammy wrote:
What exactly is different about a lens in Macro mode? Does the lens alter
its optics in some way to focus more closely?

My Galaxy S7 lens doesn't seem to have enough space inside to shift any
elements in a different way. Although my point and shoot has a lens which
comes forward and is made of 6 elements in 5 groups. How do these cameras
provide Macro mode?


First off, in the phone, the sensor is so small, that the lens to sensor
distance doesn't have to be huge to provide near macro.

If a camera can provide close up macro focusing then why isn't it provided
as part of Normal mode?


The main issue with good macro lenses is relatively simple optics that
mechanically move far away from the film plane/sensor. This is why very
good lenses can be had in the 80 - 120 mm range that are extensible for
fine macro performance.

With AF lenses, in the so called normal range, the mechanical movement
for infinity down to close (but not macro) range is not all that much.
Once you get close in to macro then the mechanical focus range gets very
large. So AF is a PITA - why many Macro lenses have AF limiting
switches to hold AF in the macro range or outside the macro range.

--
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need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
- unknown protester
 




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