Asking advice

Do like everyone else does. Use your credit card, buy the Hasselblad now,
don't worry about saving for it. Maybe you'll be able to pay off the credit
card, maybe not. If not just file for bankruptcy, you'll be excused from
paying anything to anybody because it wasn't your fault that you saturated
yourself with debt, it was the fault of those mean creditors who kept
offering you credit when they should have known you couldn't repay it. The
credit card companies will start offering you new cards within a year or two
after your bankruptcy proceedings have been concluded, then you can do the
same thing all over again. It's the American Way.

On a more serious note, when I really want the more expensive of two items
but buy the cheaper to save money I often end up regretting the decision and
eventually buy the more expensive thing I really wanted in the first place
(at which point it's become even more expensive since I have to sell the
cheaper thing at a loss). Plus I have no idea where the money I supposedly
saved went. So I'd get the Hasselblad if that's what you really want. But
FWIW, my wedding photographer used a Kiev and the results were excellent.

"Bugs Bunny" wrote in message
...
Group,

Been all my life fascinated by Hassy but never had cash reserve to buy
one.

So this has led me to question very similar like Hamlet

a) buy ARAX88 (Kiev) model with lenses I consider fullfilling the basic
photographic subjects - pets, persons, scenery, architecture

b) or tighten the belt one notch more and save save save and buy
refurb Hassy 500CM or similar and couple lenses

Advice is asked - to B) or not to B)

Yours truely

/Jukka aka Bugs

Bugs Bunny wrote in
:

Group,

Been all my life fascinated by Hassy but never had cash reserve to buy
one.

So this has led me to question very similar like Hamlet

a) buy ARAX88 (Kiev) model with lenses I consider fullfilling the
basic photographic subjects - pets, persons, scenery, architecture

b) or tighten the belt one notch more and save save save and buy
refurb Hassy 500CM or similar and couple lenses

Advice is asked - to B) or not to B)

Yours truely

/Jukka aka Bugs


After reading few replies I am getting the picture 'buy cheap, end up
buying the cheap twice or the costlier alternative and burn up cash
you could've used in the first place buying higher bucks item'

Ok, lessee ... at first I need body, two 120 backs, WA and tele
(120 - 180mm) - body with 80mm roughly 1600Euro, two backs 500Euros ...
with approx. budget 2500-3000Euros does not leave much for WA + tele

As I do not have credit card it means that I must sell few more pics
now with current gear unless I stroke gold somewhere

Thanks for food for thought

/Jukka aka Bugs

Bugs Bunny wrote:


After reading few replies I am getting the picture 'buy cheap, end up
buying the cheap twice or the costlier alternative and burn up cash
you could've used in the first place buying higher bucks item'


Na. With the Kiev you'll be out taking pictures. It's so cheap that no
matter what it'll do more then sitting around waiting for a 500 or a lens
for it. Or any of the other items you might want. Do a search on jammed
shutters on those Hasslebads. You'll finding pages and pages of complaints.
Then search for problems with the backs. More and more complaints. Get
something reliable like the Kiev 60-))

Nick

C) Bronica

It's a lot of camera and lens for the money, compared to 'Blad.

"Roman J. Rohleder" wrote in message
...
"MikeWhy" schrieb:

I say (C): get something you can afford to buy good glass for. Kiev and
Arsenal are crap shoots in regards build and optics quality.

Have you ever handled a Zavod Arsenal (aka "Kiev") lens? What do you
base your claim "crap optics" on?


He said "crap shoot" which implies that the quality of the optics you get
may be good or may suck but you'll have no way of telling before you get it
and use it, not "crap optics" which implies that the quality sucks with no
chance of getting anything good from them.

Jeffery S. Harrison

In article , Stacey
wrote:

So for $0.02 I can trade my kiev gear, lens for lens, for blad ones now? I
think it's more like I'd have to add about $15,000 to get the 'blad
equivalent of my kiev stuff. Unless the 'blad shift lenses, fisheye, ultra
wides etc have gotten under $500 a piece?

It's funny how being poor doesn't really hurt the quality of one's images
if she/he has Imagination, determination, and talent: things that cannot
be bought.

One of my more memorable photographs from certainly memorable (and
impoverished) times comes from a Petri 7S camera. So let the Leica and
Blad boyze rant.

"Reciprocity Failure" wrote:

On a more serious note, when I really want the more expensive of two items
but buy the cheaper to save money I often end up regretting the decision
and
eventually buy the more expensive thing I really wanted in the first place
(at which point it's become even more expensive since I have to sell the
cheaper thing at a loss).

I also often end up buying both, but I usually find that the cheaper thing
was worth what I paid for it. With the cheaper thing, I learn how to use the
tool, and determine that I really do need the more expensive guy, and when I
get the more expensive guy, I _really_ know why it's better.

Plus I have no idea where the money I supposedly
saved went. So I'd get the Hasselblad if that's what you really want.
But
FWIW, my wedding photographer used a Kiev and the results were excellent.

"Bugs Bunny" wrote in message
...
Group,

Been all my life fascinated by Hassy but never had cash reserve to buy
one.

So this has led me to question very similar like Hamlet

a) buy ARAX88 (Kiev) model with lenses I consider fullfilling the basic
photographic subjects - pets, persons, scenery, architecture

b) or tighten the belt one notch more and save save save and buy
refurb Hassy 500CM or similar and couple lenses

Advice is asked - to B) or not to B)

Yours truely

/Jukka aka Bugs

In article , Stacey
wrote:

http://www.geocities.com/kievgurl/tessar_150mm.html

You have a machine shop? A lathe at least? Wow!

Bugs Bunny wrote:
Bugs Bunny wrote in
:

Group,

Been all my life fascinated by Hassy but never had cash reserve to buy
one.

So this has led me to question very similar like Hamlet

a) buy ARAX88 (Kiev) model with lenses I consider fullfilling the
basic photographic subjects - pets, persons, scenery, architecture

b) or tighten the belt one notch more and save save save and buy
refurb Hassy 500CM or similar and couple lenses

Advice is asked - to B) or not to B)

Yours truely

/Jukka aka Bugs


After reading few replies I am getting the picture 'buy cheap, end up
buying the cheap twice or the costlier alternative and burn up cash
you could've used in the first place buying higher bucks item'

I'm have the impression that some of the 'blad guys mix up some
facts:

1. I agree, the original Kiev is a unreliable PIA. So don't buy
one of those "$150 on ebay" Kievs. You won't get happy with it.

2. If you buy a refurbished Kiev from one of the reputable companys
like ARAX or Wiese, you get a very reliable camera for the price of
2 'blad backs.

3. There're some other companies produceing cameras priced between
a Kiev and a Hassy. Bronica (if it has to be 6x6) or Mamiya (6x4.5
and 6x7).

Ok, lessee ... at first I need body, two 120 backs, WA and tele
(120 - 180mm) - body with 80mm roughly 1600Euro, two backs 500Euros ...
with approx. budget 2500-3000Euros does not leave much for WA + tele

Lets see: (prices listed on M. Wiese's Homepage):

If you want a hassy-lookalike:

Pentasix 636:
Body, 2 Backs 6x6, WLF, TTL-Prism(!), Lens 80mm, MLU, improved shutter
(black cloth), and a Rollei screen (very bright compared to the original
Kiev one), P6 mount: 1100Euro

If you accept a Kiev60 rebuild (no backs):
Pentasix with prism and Rollei screen: 650Euro

That leaves you aprox. 1400-1900Eur for lenses!
And even "expensive" lenses like the 30mm Arsat are 300Eur
to 500Eur (new coating). A 45mm Shift is 720Eur.

Oh, no family relationship or finacial benefits.
I had the oportunity to take a few rolls of film with
a Wiese Kiev-Six and if I hadn't allready bought Mamiya
gear...


Christian

Stacey schrieb:

I have several kievs and think the K-60 is the simpler, more reliable of the
2 cameras. That said I just got an ARAX K88 that I special ordered with
their titanium foil shutter, in the twist-click P-6 mount and 3 rebuilt old
type backs and it's smooth as silk. I also have a Hartblei 1006c (88 in P-6
mount) that was converted to use 'blad backs and this new ARAX is just as
smooth.

I tend to believe it´s the magazine that makes the camera work smooth,
not vice versa. My Wiese-K88Six is smooth, but I use the old type
magazine. One broke in the meantime (abuse, I borrowed the camera to
my uncle), another is due for replacement of the light baffle.

I recently handled a friends K88CM, with the NT-magazine, a factory
sale, checked by Wiese. Now, that mag even improved the transport
feeling of my trustworthy tank!

I am tempted to get the one or other NT magazine.

Sure the kievs aren't the best build camera on the planet,

But the ones who improved the most during the recent 5 years. The CM
was a big step forward and the new lens designs (PCS/TS lenses, that
Hartblei macro) made the system even more attractive.

Gruss, Roman