Shutter CLA prices and qualities

My recent convo with http://www.khbphotografix.com/
per my interest in their prices. Here I will reverse the
order from bottom to top as follows, all comments are
welcome.

initial question from me:

Subject: shutter CLA quote

I have three shutters in need of CLA

Wollensak Graphex / ?
Compur rapid / 0
Synchro compur-P / 0

All are working, slow speeds and extremely innacurate
and should not need any parts. The Graphex stops at
slower speeds and can be pushed to closing. please reply
with repair prices AND shipping costs.

Thank you very much,

reply:
Alex,

Thank you for contacting us. As long as parts are
not required, an overhaul can be done on each lens
for about $180 - $220CDN (about $135 - $170.00
US) per lens.

Because they would have to cross the border, we
have to suggest that they be sent uninsured with $0
commercial value declared. It does mean that there
is a risk that if the shutters are lost or damaged,
they won't be covered, but if any value is declared,
customs brokerage fees are automatically applied.

We're unable to quote you a fee for shipping
without knowing the size and weight of the parcel.
We would normally ship by FedEx Ground or
Canada Post Small Packet service. Please let us
know if there's any other information we can
provide.

Regards,
Dave Etherington, KHB Photografix

My reply back:
Pass this on to managers please

Well gosh, thanks for the reply.

But why wouldn't you compete with S.K. Grimes
on prices? They state a CLA on a LF shutter is
$80.00 to $100.00 US. I think you should lower
your cost and say so, and what that cost is on
your website. People into LF photography always
need a decent deal on a shutter CLA my friends.
ALL the time. Most old lenses sold are in
innacurate shutters.

You could even sell a c$95.00 (US $72.54 not-
rounded, $70.00 rounded) CLA service on ebay.
I could bet you your business you'd make more
C$ than you are now. Such a sale price would
not include new parts or the fabrication of
them, but it would be more than fair. People
would also advo for you in communications
groups about such a good deal.

The thing about S. K. Grimes (not the man) is
the site says $80.00, they will email you back
and say $100.00 to you. That is since the man
passed away, his younger workers have taken
over the business. http://www.skgrimes.com/

No offense intended, sincerely, Alex

Reply to me:
Alex,

No offence taken. We appreciate your interest
and candor. The proper way to service those
shutters is to completely disassemble the shutter,
ultrasonically clean all the parts, then reassemble,
properly lubricating as you go. That's the way we
do it. Other technicians use a solvent to attempt
to dissolve the old grease and lubricants without
disassembling. That saves time, thus allowing
them to quote a lower price, but we don't believe
it is as effective in the long run.

With complete disassembly, it's 2 to 2-1/2 hours
work. If the technicians at S.K. Grimes are able to
do it that way for less money, so be it. If they do
the service without complete disassembly, then
you're paying less and getting less. If you're satisfied
with that, that's fine too. But we won't compromise
on doing the work properly.

I suppose the analogy might be a car engine with
sticky valves. You can pay a relatively inexpensive
fee for running a solvent through and flushing the
engine, or you can pay to have the head disassembled
and cleaned. Which is best? That depends on your
budget, how long you intend to drive the car and
how much the car is worth to you.

Since there are different levels of service, LF people
should be sure of what service they're being quoted
on so they can make a valid comparison

Regards,
Dave Etherington, KHB Photografix

This was a bit enlightening for me as far as repair
techniques being offered! I didn't such diffs existed.

Alex

Don't forget that the labour costs are much higher in Canada because of the
superior workmanship... :-)

"AArDvarK" wrote in message
news:Tp4ac.63936$1I5.14721@fed1read01...
My recent convo with http://www.khbphotografix.com/
per my interest in their prices. Here I will reverse the
order from bottom to top as follows, all comments are
welcome.

initial question from me:

Subject: shutter CLA quote

I have three shutters in need of CLA

Wollensak Graphex / ?
Compur rapid / 0
Synchro compur-P / 0

All are working, slow speeds and extremely innacurate
and should not need any parts. The Graphex stops at
slower speeds and can be pushed to closing. please reply
with repair prices AND shipping costs.

Thank you very much,

reply:
Alex,

Thank you for contacting us. As long as parts are
not required, an overhaul can be done on each lens
for about $180 - $220CDN (about $135 - $170.00
US) per lens.

Because they would have to cross the border, we
have to suggest that they be sent uninsured with $0
commercial value declared. It does mean that there
is a risk that if the shutters are lost or damaged,
they won't be covered, but if any value is declared,
customs brokerage fees are automatically applied.

We're unable to quote you a fee for shipping
without knowing the size and weight of the parcel.
We would normally ship by FedEx Ground or
Canada Post Small Packet service. Please let us
know if there's any other information we can
provide.

Regards,
Dave Etherington, KHB Photografix

My reply back:
Pass this on to managers please

Well gosh, thanks for the reply.

But why wouldn't you compete with S.K. Grimes
on prices? They state a CLA on a LF shutter is
$80.00 to $100.00 US. I think you should lower
your cost and say so, and what that cost is on
your website. People into LF photography always
need a decent deal on a shutter CLA my friends.
ALL the time. Most old lenses sold are in
innacurate shutters.

You could even sell a c$95.00 (US $72.54 not-
rounded, $70.00 rounded) CLA service on ebay.
I could bet you your business you'd make more
C$ than you are now. Such a sale price would
not include new parts or the fabrication of
them, but it would be more than fair. People
would also advo for you in communications
groups about such a good deal.

The thing about S. K. Grimes (not the man) is
the site says $80.00, they will email you back
and say $100.00 to you. That is since the man
passed away, his younger workers have taken
over the business. http://www.skgrimes.com/

No offense intended, sincerely, Alex

Reply to me:
Alex,

No offence taken. We appreciate your interest
and candor. The proper way to service those
shutters is to completely disassemble the shutter,
ultrasonically clean all the parts, then reassemble,
properly lubricating as you go. That's the way we
do it. Other technicians use a solvent to attempt
to dissolve the old grease and lubricants without
disassembling. That saves time, thus allowing
them to quote a lower price, but we don't believe
it is as effective in the long run.

With complete disassembly, it's 2 to 2-1/2 hours
work. If the technicians at S.K. Grimes are able to
do it that way for less money, so be it. If they do
the service without complete disassembly, then
you're paying less and getting less. If you're satisfied
with that, that's fine too. But we won't compromise
on doing the work properly.

I suppose the analogy might be a car engine with
sticky valves. You can pay a relatively inexpensive
fee for running a solvent through and flushing the
engine, or you can pay to have the head disassembled
and cleaned. Which is best? That depends on your
budget, how long you intend to drive the car and
how much the car is worth to you.

Since there are different levels of service, LF people
should be sure of what service they're being quoted
on so they can make a valid comparison

Regards,
Dave Etherington, KHB Photografix

This was a bit enlightening for me as far as repair
techniques being offered! I didn't such diffs existed.

Alex

The technique of complete disassembly and rebuilding is
really the proper way to clean the shutter. It is not always
necessary but probably a good idea. It is very important
that the shutter blades be free of any oil film. One problem
with the often recommended technique of soaking the shutter
in solvent is that the solvent really does not wash out the
dirt and old lubricant and can leave a residue. I ran into
this just recently in fixing an old dial set Compur from a
c.1937 Rolleiflex. I gave it a casual cleaning and it kept
jamming. The problem turned out to be a small fiber of
something on one of the shutter blades, which was pushed
under the activating ring. Once I bit the bullet and did a
real cleaning job on it the problem went away. This shutter,
BTW is exactly on speed even at 1/500th. I think it has been
serviced at some time since it was built but probably not
for decades.
Most shutter technicians will charge about $80 US for a
CLA but find out what exactly they do for this. The $200
price seems a little high but the time quoted is about right
and may be short for shutters like the Kodak, Ilex, and
Wollensak, where it may be necessary to adjust springs or
even make them.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

Richard Knoppow:
The technique of complete disassembly and rebuilding is
really the proper way to clean the shutter. It is not always
necessary but probably a good idea. It is very important
that the shutter blades be free of any oil film. One problem
with the often recommended technique of soaking the shutter
in solvent is that the solvent really does not wash out the
dirt and old lubricant and can leave a residue. I ran into
this just recently in fixing an old dial set Compur from a
c.1937 Rolleiflex. I gave it a casual cleaning and it kept
jamming. The problem turned out to be a small fiber of
something on one of the shutter blades, which was pushed
under the activating ring. Once I bit the bullet and did a
real cleaning job on it the problem went away. This shutter,
BTW is exactly on speed even at 1/500th. I think it has been
serviced at some time since it was built but probably not
for decades.
Most shutter technicians will charge about $80 US for a
CLA but find out what exactly they do for this. The $200
price seems a little high but the time quoted is about right
and may be short for shutters like the Kodak, Ilex, and
Wollensak, where it may be necessary to adjust springs or
even make them.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA


Thank you for the reply Mr. Knoppow!
Exactly what I was hoping to hear about.
I feel that khbphotografix.com has the
right idea on how to do things, but I
decided it is far too expensive to simply
"have done" at my financial level. Now
I bought repair guides for the graphex
and rapax shutters, and will buy them
for compurs and prontors too. I know
I am tech-savvy enough to learn it, I
have rebuilt two LF cameras and the
rotating back of a Busch Pressman D.

I would like to find a used ultrasonic
cleaning machine for the parts. Do you
have one? If so, does it clean parts within
a fluid bath, or dry?

Thanks again,

Alex

"AArDvarK" wrote in message
news:wjldc.350$Va4.16@fed1read01...

Richard Knoppow:
The technique of complete disassembly and rebuilding
is
really the proper way to clean the shutter. It is not
always
necessary but probably a good idea. It is very important
that the shutter blades be free of any oil film. One
problem
with the often recommended technique of soaking the
shutter
in solvent is that the solvent really does not wash out
the
dirt and old lubricant and can leave a residue. I ran
into
this just recently in fixing an old dial set Compur from
a
c.1937 Rolleiflex. I gave it a casual cleaning and it
kept
jamming. The problem turned out to be a small fiber of
something on one of the shutter blades, which was pushed
under the activating ring. Once I bit the bullet and did
a
real cleaning job on it the problem went away. This
shutter,
BTW is exactly on speed even at 1/500th. I think it has
been
serviced at some time since it was built but probably
not
for decades.
Most shutter technicians will charge about $80 US for
a
CLA but find out what exactly they do for this. The $200
price seems a little high but the time quoted is about
right
and may be short for shutters like the Kodak, Ilex, and
Wollensak, where it may be necessary to adjust springs
or
even make them.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA


Thank you for the reply Mr. Knoppow!
Exactly what I was hoping to hear about.
I feel that khbphotografix.com has the
right idea on how to do things, but I
decided it is far too expensive to simply
"have done" at my financial level. Now
I bought repair guides for the graphex
and rapax shutters, and will buy them
for compurs and prontors too. I know
I am tech-savvy enough to learn it, I
have rebuilt two LF cameras and the
rotating back of a Busch Pressman D.

I would like to find a used ultrasonic
cleaning machine for the parts. Do you
have one? If so, does it clean parts within
a fluid bath, or dry?

Thanks again,

Alex

I don't have an ultrasonic cleaner and don't think they
are absolutely necessary, especially if you are doing only
occasional work. They clean wet, the parts are put into a
dish which is part of the cleaner. I suspect a simple vapor
degreaser would be even more effective by my elementary
experiments have not worked so far. I think you can do with
using several rinses of the shutter parts. Use two different
solvents. Naptha (lighter fluid) works for some greases and
Isopropyl alcohol for others. I would use 99% Isopropyl for
the final rinse. Isopropyl alcohol absorbs moisture from the
air very rapidly until it reaches about 91% purity. That is
too wet for cleaning purposes since it will leave a water
residue behind. Some drugstores sell 99% Isopropyl. That
works fine but must be used fresh since once you open the
bottle it will begin to absorb moisture. A half-filled
bottle that's been around a while will probably have turned
to 91% alcohol. You can tell by the way it evaporates, the
very dry stuff evaporates very rapidly and leaves nothing
behind.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

The technique of complete disassembly and rebuilding
is
really the proper way to clean the shutter. It is not
always
necessary but probably a good idea. It is very important
that the shutter blades be free of any oil film. One
problem
with the often recommended technique of soaking the
shutter
in solvent is that the solvent really does not wash out
the
dirt and old lubricant and can leave a residue. I

Interestingly SK Grimes just contacted me about a used lens I'd sent them
for a shutter fix. They said there was a delay because it was so gunked up
inside that a number of parts required complete disassembly and cleaning. So
it may well be that this isn't a normal part of their proceedure as opposed
to the way khbphotografix does it, which would account for the price
differential?

tim a