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#51
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Canon 20D or Nikon D70s?
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 22:45:48 -0500, "Peter A. Stavrakoglou"
wrote: "Rich" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:14:21 +0100, (Philip Homburg) wrote: In article , Rich dfs wrote: Euro cars score third of three in reliability tests. But it's nice to know you can sit in luxury while you wait for the tow truck. Are you saying that just the cars that don't work get exported from Europe to the US? No, I'm saying European cars on average (the world over) score lower than Japanese, American and perhaps even Korean cars in terms of number of breakdowns and defects. -Rich Over the life span of a vehicle, I believe that the American cars now are the equal of the Japanese cars in TCO. The Korean cars are getting there too - I own a Kia Sedona I bought three years ago and my son drives the Hyundai Elantra we bought four years ago. Both have been extremely reliable. My 1 1/2 year-old Chrysler 300C has been extremely reliable also, this car is the fruit of Chrysler's merger with Daimler. It's solid, quiet, fast, and reliable. If only it didn't cost so much. The 300 is an interesting car. However, from what I've heard, the Hemi, even with it's mechanism to cut down on the number of cylinders (works much better than the horrific GM 8-6-4 option of the 1980s) it averages pretty bad fuel economy. Even a Vette is supposed to be superior. Even though I don't own one presently, I am a bigger fan of European cars than any other make. Having spent three weeks in Greece this summer and doing the same eight years ago, I got to see and drive in quite a few cars that I'll never have a chance to do here. The island I stayed on with family has a heavy presence of French cars. They don't sell them here in the US anymore, the quality years ago when they left the market here was terrible. They certainly have turned that around from what I've seen in Greece. The cars take quite a beating there and they just keep going. The Citroens, Renaults, Peugeots, and even the Fiats and Alfas. The SEATs from Spain and Skoda from the Czech Republic (owned by VW AG) are really nice too. I wish they sold them here, I would certainly consider buying any of them. They are quite stylish too. European cars have styling, luxury (depending on the model) and speed which in-part is due to the fact they don't have to meet U.S. crash worthiness overseas or pollution control standards. -Rich |
#52
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Canon 20D or Nikon D70s?
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:21:22 GMT, John A. Stovall
wrote: On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 14:55:28 GMT, "ian lincoln" wrote: "nick c" wrote in message m... I believe you must have BOTH aspherical and fluorite to qualify for L. There are low dispersion lenses that aren't L. I believe water or at least dust protection is required to qualify also. No to all of the above. I suggest you get and read: _"EF Lens Work" III: The Eyes of EOS_ by Canon For example the 400mm f/5.6L has no fluorite elements. The 400mm f/4.0 DO IS USM has a huge chunk of fluorite and a multilayer Diffractive Optical element (DO) but doesn't rate an "L". Here is what Canon has to say about "L" lenses. pp34 of the above book: "L Lenses Where Dreams Are Crystal Clear. The bright red line engraved on the lens barrel . An L for "luxury." The Canon EF lens L series possesses a level of quality sufficiently high to be called professional, designed to include groundbreaking image performance, outstanding operability, and resistance to weather and aging. "L." This name is reserved only for those few lenses that can meet stringent standards of performance, using fluorite (an artificial crystal), a ground and polished aspherical surface, UD, super UD lenses or other special optical materials. Optical design with out compromise together with optical theory and precision engineering technologies that are steeped in tradition as they are cutting edge. And the result of our relentless pursuit of these ideals is the L series of Canon EF lenses." L is for Luxury. Seems that the three standard features a -Long life build quality -Weather sealing -No plastic The rest are optional. -Rich |
#53
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Canon 20D or Nikon D70s?
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 12:17:18 -0600, Howard Larson
wrote: DD wrote in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems : In article , says... [snip] The D70 compared with 300 D?? The D70 is a much better camera. I know that, you know that, but the vast majority of newbies don't. [snip] Do you really know that? If so, you are simply contributing to the noise when you could be educating those of us in the vast unwashed. Physically, it seems to be a better camera. Sensorwise, probably about the same. However, the conundrum is that the Rebel XT is still a "lesser" camera physically and egonomically than the D70 but has a better sensor. But then for the average buyer, the kit lens (18-70) for the D70 is a far better lens than either iteration of the Canon 18-55mm. Tough choices, huh? -Rich |
#54
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Canon 20D or Nikon D70s?
-- Skip Middleton http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com "Rich" wrote in message ... On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 22:45:48 -0500, "Peter A. Stavrakoglou" wrote: this car is the fruit of Chrysler's merger with Daimler. It's solid, quiet, fast, and reliable. If only it didn't cost so much. The 300 is an interesting car. However, from what I've heard, the Hemi, even with it's mechanism to cut down on the number of cylinders (works much better than the horrific GM 8-6-4 option of the 1980s) it averages pretty bad fuel economy. Even a Vette is supposed to be superior. A Corvette has about the same EPA rating as the 300C, but has an annoying "skip shift" feature that skips from 1st to 4th under low load situations, thus improving the fuel mileage on the EPA tests, but not in real world. And its 6 speed transmission has two overdrive ratios, as opposed to the 300C's 5 speed and one overdrive. Even though I don't own one presently, I am a bigger fan of European cars than any other make. Having spent three weeks in Greece this summer and doing the same eight years ago, I got to see and drive in quite a few cars that I'll never have a chance to do here. The island I stayed on with family has a heavy presence of French cars. They don't sell them here in the US anymore, the quality years ago when they left the market here was terrible. They certainly have turned that around from what I've seen in Greece. The cars take quite a beating there and they just keep going. The Citroens, Renaults, Peugeots, and even the Fiats and Alfas. The SEATs from Spain and Skoda from the Czech Republic (owned by VW AG) are really nice too. I wish they sold them here, I would certainly consider buying any of them. They are quite stylish too. European cars have styling, luxury (depending on the model) and speed which in-part is due to the fact they don't have to meet U.S. crash worthiness overseas or pollution control standards. -Rich German pollution standards are more stringent than ours in some categories, and the differing crash standards don't contribute that much to the weight or styling. And luxury has absolutely nothing to do with it. http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com |
#55
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Canon 20D or Nikon D70s?
"Rich" wrote in message
... On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 22:45:48 -0500, "Peter A. Stavrakoglou" wrote: "Rich" wrote in message . .. On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:14:21 +0100, (Philip Homburg) wrote: In article , Rich dfs wrote: Euro cars score third of three in reliability tests. But it's nice to know you can sit in luxury while you wait for the tow truck. Are you saying that just the cars that don't work get exported from Europe to the US? No, I'm saying European cars on average (the world over) score lower than Japanese, American and perhaps even Korean cars in terms of number of breakdowns and defects. -Rich Over the life span of a vehicle, I believe that the American cars now are the equal of the Japanese cars in TCO. The Korean cars are getting there too - I own a Kia Sedona I bought three years ago and my son drives the Hyundai Elantra we bought four years ago. Both have been extremely reliable. My 1 1/2 year-old Chrysler 300C has been extremely reliable also, this car is the fruit of Chrysler's merger with Daimler. It's solid, quiet, fast, and reliable. If only it didn't cost so much. The 300 is an interesting car. However, from what I've heard, the Hemi, even with it's mechanism to cut down on the number of cylinders (works much better than the horrific GM 8-6-4 option of the 1980s) it averages pretty bad fuel economy. Even a Vette is supposed to be superior. I remeber that 8-6-4, what a disaster. My 300C gets just the MPG that it is rated for, 17 city and 25 highway. I don't consider that too bad for a two ton car with the oomph that this baby has. The ratings for the Vette are very close, 17 city and 27 highway for the 365. The Vette is almost 900 pounds lighter. Even though I don't own one presently, I am a bigger fan of European cars than any other make. Having spent three weeks in Greece this summer and doing the same eight years ago, I got to see and drive in quite a few cars that I'll never have a chance to do here. The island I stayed on with family has a heavy presence of French cars. They don't sell them here in the US anymore, the quality years ago when they left the market here was terrible. They certainly have turned that around from what I've seen in Greece. The cars take quite a beating there and they just keep going. The Citroens, Renaults, Peugeots, and even the Fiats and Alfas. The SEATs from Spain and Skoda from the Czech Republic (owned by VW AG) are really nice too. I wish they sold them here, I would certainly consider buying any of them. They are quite stylish too. European cars have styling, luxury (depending on the model) and speed which in-part is due to the fact they don't have to meet U.S. crash worthiness overseas or pollution control standards. -Rich |
#56
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Canon 20D or Nikon D70s?
"nick c" wrote in message Skip, I recall reading a magazine article where the reporter was interviewing someone in the Canon hierarchy. The 17-85 "S" lens was mentioned along with other lenses and the Canon person said if it were not for the 17-85 lens being a "S" lens, the lens is so good it would be have been released as an "L" lens. I have the 17-85 lens and it's almost always on the 20D camera. As to it being good enough to be labeled an "L" lens ... shrug. But it is a darn good lens. Nick, The article was in either Shutterbug or Pop Photography (I still have the issue somewhere). It was about the 10-22 EF-S lens. They said that if it wasn't for the "S" designation and the lack of weather-proofness, it could compete with nearly any of the "L" lenses. |
#57
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Canon 20D or Nikon D70s?
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:57:03 -0800, "Skip M"
wrote: A Corvette has about the same EPA rating as the 300C, but has an annoying "skip shift" feature that skips from 1st to 4th under low load situations, thus improving the fuel mileage on the EPA tests, but not in real world. And its 6 speed transmission has two overdrive ratios, as opposed to the 300C's 5 speed and one overdrive. No one uses the 6th gear in a Vette except maybe on long highway runs where you get good fuel economy anyway. The Hemi according to some users nets about 14mpg or less, depending on the vehicle. I figure my Mach-1 gets worse mileage than the current Corvette. -Rich |
#59
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Canon 20D or Nikon D70s?
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 20:37:45 GMT, John A. Stovall
wrote: On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:12:32 -0500, Rich wrote: On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:21:22 GMT, John A. Stovall wrote: On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 14:55:28 GMT, "ian lincoln" wrote: "nick c" wrote in message news:U_idnVtqwawQKRvenZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@comcast. com... I believe you must have BOTH aspherical and fluorite to qualify for L. There are low dispersion lenses that aren't L. I believe water or at least dust protection is required to qualify also. No to all of the above. I suggest you get and read: _"EF Lens Work" III: The Eyes of EOS_ by Canon For example the 400mm f/5.6L has no fluorite elements. The 400mm f/4.0 DO IS USM has a huge chunk of fluorite and a multilayer Diffractive Optical element (DO) but doesn't rate an "L". Here is what Canon has to say about "L" lenses. pp34 of the above book: "L Lenses Where Dreams Are Crystal Clear. The bright red line engraved on the lens barrel . An L for "luxury." The Canon EF lens L series possesses a level of quality sufficiently high to be called professional, designed to include groundbreaking image performance, outstanding operability, and resistance to weather and aging. "L." This name is reserved only for those few lenses that can meet stringent standards of performance, using fluorite (an artificial crystal), a ground and polished aspherical surface, UD, super UD lenses or other special optical materials. Optical design with out compromise together with optical theory and precision engineering technologies that are steeped in tradition as they are cutting edge. And the result of our relentless pursuit of these ideals is the L series of Canon EF lenses." L is for Luxury. Seems that the three standard features a -Long life build quality -Weather sealing -No plastic Where do you get "No Plastic" my L's have plastic on them. But you wouldn't know since you don't have a DSLR much less any L lenses for it. I hope you are only referring to the grip ring because if they incorporate plastic into the mechanism, that's pretty pathetic for $800+ lenses. -Rich |
#60
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Canon 20D or Nikon D70s?
"Rich" wrote in message
... On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:57:03 -0800, "Skip M" wrote: A Corvette has about the same EPA rating as the 300C, but has an annoying "skip shift" feature that skips from 1st to 4th under low load situations, thus improving the fuel mileage on the EPA tests, but not in real world. And its 6 speed transmission has two overdrive ratios, as opposed to the 300C's 5 speed and one overdrive. No one uses the 6th gear in a Vette except maybe on long highway runs where you get good fuel economy anyway. The Hemi according to some users nets about 14mpg or less, depending on the vehicle. I figure my Mach-1 gets worse mileage than the current Corvette. -Rich That was my point, the 6th gear on the 'Vette only really affects the EPA ratings, since the highway mileage tests are done in that gear. And that 14mpg figure is probably for the trucks, which don't have the "Displacement on Demand" feature. I've heard that figure bandied about for the Ram, anyway. Car and Driver got something in the neighborhood of 20mph, IIRC, during their road test of the 300C, which includes their acceleration runs, handling course and braking tests. And I'm sure your Mach I gets worse mileage than most of the performance cars on the road today, electronic fuel injection and electronic ignitions are much more efficient than the old ways. -- Skip Middleton http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com |
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