Canon 20D or Nikon D70s?

"Peter A. Stavrakoglou" wrote in message
...
"ian lincoln" wrote in message
news

Absolutely not. I own a lens. One was enough. Someone else mentioned
the sigma/canon problems. REchipping etc. If you have ever held a brand
new top end sigma lens in your hand and watch the end fall off. Then
again after returning from sigma for repair. Their cheap dx lenses for
digital cameras are the very worst. If you must go non manufacturer
brand go tamron or tokina. Trust me when i say sigma sell most cos
dealers like 'em. They like em cos they are cheaper than the other
brands but still have a better markup not because of any optical or build
quality merits.

A co-worker owns a Mercedes Benz that has been nothing but constant
headaches. It's a real lemon. Mercedes must be really lousy cars, all of
them.

think you missed the point somewhere. I'm not merely commenting on my own
lense performance.

I used to sell the things and handled quite a few.
Even very modern sigmas have compatibility issues when the next model canon
camera comes out.
Watching a very expensive lense fall apart in your hands is not reassuring
either. Especially after its been returned to sigma for repair and then
just done it again. Then there are the ones where they won't switch from
auto to manual focus regardless of the switch position.
Or just don't auto focus but the motor and lens barrel move.

Like I'm not against third party products just sigma ones.

"Peter A. Stavrakoglou" wrote in message
...


A co-worker owns a Mercedes Benz that has been nothing but constant
headaches. It's a real lemon. Mercedes must be really lousy cars, all of
them.

Nah! Just the ones built in america.

"cjcampbell" wrote in message

For me, it just came down to which camera feels better in my hand. I
like the feel of the Nikon over the Canon, but that is an extremely
personal perspective. Get whichever camera has the controls where you
are likely to remember them and use them easily. Imagine walking around
all day holding the camera by its grip. Better yet, get a loaner and
walk around all day with it. Get the camera that makes you hurt less.

If you plan to do alot of flash work then look at the nikon. Also don't
overlook minolta. They have very good metering, focusing and flash systems.
Then there is the antishake that will work on all your lenses. Big money
saver when you look at canon IS and nikon VR lenses.

"nick c" wrote in message
. ..
Skip M wrote:
"nick c" wrote in message
. ..

Skip M wrote:

"Per Ting" wrote in message
.. .


How these two compare, the price of cannon is slightly higher, but in
terms
of quality how do they compare. I am thinking of D70s with 18-70 kit
lens
and 20D with 17-85 IS lens. How do the lenses compare? Any suggestion
for
better wakl around lenses to go with each? I have heard good things
about
Sigma 18-50 and 18-200 lenses.

Thanks


As far as which camera, that's one only you can answer, really. The
pixel count is close, but in favor of the Canon, the noise issue is a
wash, the Nikon is a little better at low ISO, the Canon is better at
high ISO. Lens lines are pretty much equally deep, with consumer and
pro lenses both wide and tele. Canon has more stabilized lenses, but
only in the far reaches of the tele world, both have a good selection of
zoom lenses that have stabilization. If you're going to shoot
architecture, Canon offers some exotic tilt and shift lenses that Nikon
doesn't. Some people like the ergonomics of one over the other, again,
that's something best left up to you.


The Canon 17-85 IS is a better lens, somewhat, but its main claim to
fame is the IS feature, one that the Nikon lacks.

Skip, I recall reading a magazine article where the reporter was
interviewing someone in the Canon hierarchy. The 17-85 "S" lens was
mentioned along with other lenses and the Canon person said if it were
not for the 17-85 lens being a "S" lens, the lens is so good it would be
have been released as an "L" lens.

I have the 17-85 lens and it's almost always on the 20D camera. As to it
being good enough to be labeled an "L" lens ... shrug. But it is a darn
good lens.





No argument there, but quality is not the criterion for inclusion in
"L"dom. Exotic elements, defined as exotic types of glass such as
fluorite, or low dispersion glass, are needed for the lens to be
considered an "L", according to Canon's own literature. The 60mm Macro
has this type of glass, but I guess it is not included because it is an
EF-S lens. (?) Makes little to no sense to me...


The 10-22 "S" lens has S-UD glass and it isn't labeled as a "L" lens. I
don't think the 60mm Macro "S" lens has either S-UD (or UD), or fluorite
glass.

I was thinking about that one, just going from a memory that ain't what it
used to be.

I don't know if lens build quality alone may be a criterion for labeling a
"L" lens, but I tend to think it may be. For example, the 14mm f-2.8 "L"
lens and the excellent 35mm f-1.4 "L" lens doesn't have either fluorite or
S-UD glass yet they are "L" lens. However, they, like the 17-85 lens have
aspherical elements. I'm equally puzzled.

My wife -ahem-"rearranged" our bookcase the other day, and I can't find my
lens lit. from Canon, but I thought the 35mm f1.4, at least, had UD glass.
If not, I'm just as puzzled as I ever was.
--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

"Skip M" wrote in message
news:70xhf.9733$dv.5648@fed1read02...
"Peter A. Stavrakoglou" wrote in message
...
"ian lincoln" wrote in message
news

Absolutely not. I own a lens. One was enough. Someone else mentioned
the sigma/canon problems. REchipping etc. If you have ever held a
brand new top end sigma lens in your hand and watch the end fall off.
Then again after returning from sigma for repair. Their cheap dx lenses
for digital cameras are the very worst. If you must go non manufacturer
brand go tamron or tokina. Trust me when i say sigma sell most cos
dealers like 'em. They like em cos they are cheaper than the other
brands but still have a better markup not because of any optical or
build quality merits.

A co-worker owns a Mercedes Benz that has been nothing but constant
headaches. It's a real lemon. Mercedes must be really lousy cars, all
of them.


Actually, DaimlerChrysler has acknowledged that they have some severe
quality issues, especially when it comes to electronics, and the
perception is even worse, so that probably wasn't the best analogy you
could have used...

I won an 18 month-old 300C, quality has been very, very good. I know
Daimler-Chrysler is having quality issues, as well as BMW. Perhaps I should
have used Honda as an example (I know someone who has a real lemon of an
Accord) but I think you got my point

"Rich" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 23:22:19 -0500, "Peter A. Stavrakoglou"
wrote:

"ian lincoln" wrote in message
news

Absolutely not. I own a lens. One was enough. Someone else mentioned
the sigma/canon problems. REchipping etc. If you have ever held a
brand
new top end sigma lens in your hand and watch the end fall off. Then
again after returning from sigma for repair. Their cheap dx lenses for
digital cameras are the very worst. If you must go non manufacturer
brand
go tamron or tokina. Trust me when i say sigma sell most cos dealers
like
'em. They like em cos they are cheaper than the other brands but still
have a better markup not because of any optical or build quality merits.

A co-worker owns a Mercedes Benz that has been nothing but constant
headaches. It's a real lemon. Mercedes must be really lousy cars, all of
them.


Euro cars score third of three in reliability tests. But it's nice to
know you can sit in luxury while you wait for the tow truck.

LOL!

On 24 Nov 2005 08:03:53 -0800, "JimKramer" wrote:

If you are not already invested in a lens line, go to a retail store
and pick up both cameras; buy the one that feels right in your hands.

Bravo.

The D70s and 20D come in at different price points and have different
feature sets, but if you don't like using which ever one you buy, it's
going to be a mediocre paperweight.

--
Michael Benveniste --
Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $419. Use this email
address only to submit mail for evaluation.

In article , Rich dfs wrote:
Euro cars score third of three in reliability tests. But it's nice to
know you can sit in luxury while you wait for the tow truck.

Are you saying that just the cars that don't work get exported from Europe
to the US?


--
That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it
could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done
by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.
-- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

The D70 compared with 300 D?? The D70 is a much better camera.

I know that, you know that, but the vast majority of newbies don't.

The way it works is like this;

Canon comes out with a camera that makes people sit up and take notice.
Nikon responds after about a year with a camera that is priced about the
same, but is a lot better. Canon responds within 6-12 months with a new
feature or a new camera altogether.

And so on...

--
DD
www.dallasdahms.com
Central Scrutinizer

I got your point, DD..It`s true.

Max

Martin Francis wrote:

"Paul Furman" wrote in message
news
I got the Sigma 12-24 thinking full frame was important. It's pretty
sharp, almost flawless distortion and built like a tank, their own version
of AF-S. The color rendition & contrast aren't that great & the bokeh is
hideous but I only use it in focus and saved about $300 at the time. It's
a pleasure to handle.


I'm not one to jump in on the Sigma debate- I don't like 'em much, but
whatever floats yer boat- but I have to ask on that last point....

...doesn't that slightly velvety, spangly finish to the barrel really grate
on your nerve endings? It does mine- it makes me think of nail files.

LOL I can get a chalkboard squeak out of it rubbing my finger across now
that you mention but I have a bigger problem with the narrow gold stripe
g.