salvaging a developer

I have a half gallon of Xtol, which I'm sure, will not give proper
development because it was made up about 9 months ago. (It's still clear)
Is there any type of chemical that can be added to make sure of normal
development? I would like to experiment but not sure how to start.

(I heard that Xtol's life dimishes with age)

Bill

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 18:50:47 -0500, "br" wrote:

I have a half gallon of Xtol, which I'm sure, will not give proper
development because it was made up about 9 months ago. (It's still clear)
Is there any type of chemical that can be added to make sure of normal
development? I would like to experiment but not sure how to start.

(I heard that Xtol's life dimishes with age)

Bill

Sure. Add D-76.


Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
Please remove the "_" when replying via email

In article , "br" wrote:

I have a half gallon of Xtol, which I'm sure, will not give proper
development because it was made up about 9 months ago. (It's still clear)
Is there any type of chemical that can be added to make sure of normal
development? I would like to experiment but not sure how to start.

Are you so desperate that you can't buy another mix and be done with it?

"br" wrote in message
...
I have a half gallon of Xtol, which I'm sure, will not
give proper
development because it was made up about 9 months ago.
(It's still clear)
Is there any type of chemical that can be added to make
sure of normal
development? I would like to experiment but not sure how
to start.

(I heard that Xtol's life dimishes with age)

Bill


There isn't. All developers are subject to oxidation from
the air or from oxygen dissolved in the water. The rate of
oxidation depends on the way they are stored. Its possible
for a developer to work perfectly after nine months although
this is in excess of the shelf life of any developer.
Not all developers discolor when oxidized so being clear
is not necessarily a test of condition. The developer can be
tested for activity by developign a scrap of film in it. The
film should darken within a few minutes. Since developer is
cheap compared to the value of film, and certainly to the
value of images, I suggest tossing it and starting fresh.
Mixed developer lasts longest in filled, sealed, bottles.
Since Xtol comes in a minimum of 5 liters, it may be
advantageous to store it in five one liter bottles. Glass is
best but high density plastic is pretty impervious to air. A
way of minimising oxidation from dissolved air is to boil
the water used for mixing the developer (or other
photographic solutions) for a few minutes and allowing it to
stand and cool. Decant or syphon off the water for use.
Boiling will drive off dissolved gasses and also remove some
soluble carbonates. When mixing stir just enough to keep the
powders in suspension. More vigorous stirring will beat air
into the water and does not make the powders dissolve any
faster.
Kodak gives a shelf life of about six months for most
mixed developers. This is conservative since they want to
insure good results even in worst cases. My experience is
that developers like D-76 may last a year in storage but I
don't recommend it.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

I appreciate your answer Mr. Knoppow. You have always been polite and on
topic.

I do not write to this NG very often but when I have I've always received
courteous and good answers but I have lost interest in this group because of
a certain few folks that seem to have fun ridiculing others with their flame
wars and childish comments.




"Richard Knoppow" wrote in message
link.net...

"br" wrote in message
...
I have a half gallon of Xtol, which I'm sure, will not
give proper
development because it was made up about 9 months ago.
(It's still clear)
Is there any type of chemical that can be added to make
sure of normal
development? I would like to experiment but not sure how
to start.

(I heard that Xtol's life dimishes with age)

Bill


There isn't. All developers are subject to oxidation from
the air or from oxygen dissolved in the water. The rate of
oxidation depends on the way they are stored. Its possible
for a developer to work perfectly after nine months although
this is in excess of the shelf life of any developer.
Not all developers discolor when oxidized so being clear
is not necessarily a test of condition. The developer can be
tested for activity by developign a scrap of film in it. The
film should darken within a few minutes. Since developer is
cheap compared to the value of film, and certainly to the
value of images, I suggest tossing it and starting fresh.
Mixed developer lasts longest in filled, sealed, bottles.
Since Xtol comes in a minimum of 5 liters, it may be
advantageous to store it in five one liter bottles. Glass is
best but high density plastic is pretty impervious to air. A
way of minimising oxidation from dissolved air is to boil
the water used for mixing the developer (or other
photographic solutions) for a few minutes and allowing it to
stand and cool. Decant or syphon off the water for use.
Boiling will drive off dissolved gasses and also remove some
soluble carbonates. When mixing stir just enough to keep the
powders in suspension. More vigorous stirring will beat air
into the water and does not make the powders dissolve any
faster.
Kodak gives a shelf life of about six months for most
mixed developers. This is conservative since they want to
insure good results even in worst cases. My experience is
that developers like D-76 may last a year in storage but I
don't recommend it.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 00:04:26 -0500, "br" wrote:

I appreciate your answer Mr. Knoppow. You have always been polite and on
topic.

I do not write to this NG very often but when I have I've always received
courteous and good answers but I have lost interest in this group because of
a certain few folks that seem to have fun ridiculing others with their flame
wars and childish comments.

And others simply post ridiculous questions.


Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
Please remove the "_" when replying via email

On 1/27/2004 4:22 PM John spake thus:

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 18:50:47 -0500, "br" wrote:

I have a half gallon of Xtol, which I'm sure, will not give proper
development because it was made up about 9 months ago. (It's still clear)
Is there any type of chemical that can be added to make sure of normal
development? I would like to experiment but not sure how to start.

(I heard that Xtol's life dimishes with age)

Bill

Sure. Add D-76.

Haw, haw.

Reminds me of the advice I once heard from Tom Jennings, fiddler from
Thatcher, Arizona, when asked what he'd do to improve a fiddle someone had
thrust before him: "Well, I'd take off those strings, and the bridge, and then
slide another fiddle under them. Ought to play pretty good then."


--
Focus: A very overrated feature.

- From Marcy Merrill's lexicon at Junk Store Cameras
(http://merrillphoto.com/JunkStoreCameras.htm)

On 1/27/2004 9:04 PM br spake thus:

I appreciate your answer Mr. Knoppow. You have always been polite and on
topic.

I do not write to this NG very often but when I have I've always received
courteous and good answers but I have lost interest in this group because of
a certain few folks that seem to have fun ridiculing others with their flame
wars and childish comments.

Aw, shucks, you're being too kind. Don't try to flatter us.


--
It's stupid, moronic and too fcuking obvious, as obvious as counting your
fingers, so TELL ME SOMETHING I DON'T KNOW or just shut the fcuk up.

- "jjs" in extremis on rec.photo.darkroom

Bill,

Some people are not what one would call "high volume" photographers, and
others, like me, use several different developers, so extended shelf
life becomes an issue. (The issue is not the cost, but the convenience
of having the developer on hand and ready to use when you need it, such
as at 10:00 p.m. on a holiday.)

A few years ago, a very helpful individual posted a clever idea he
store developer stock in the mylar bladders that are inside boxes of
cheap wine. Mylar is impervious to oxygen. I think most cheap wine
producers have become even cheaper and gone to plastic bladders, but it
is possible to find the mylar version in shops that cater to home wine
making.

Using this technique, I have routinely stored Xtol and Bromophen (a
paper developer) for well over a year with no loss in developer strength.

Bob
-----------------
br wrote:

I have a half gallon of Xtol, which I'm sure, will not give proper
development because it was made up about 9 months ago. (It's still clear)
Is there any type of chemical that can be added to make sure of normal
development? I would like to experiment but not sure how to start.

(I heard that Xtol's life dimishes with age)

Bill

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 1/27/2004 9:04 PM br spake thus:

I appreciate your answer Mr. Knoppow. You have always been polite and on
topic.

I do not write to this NG very often but when I have I've always received
courteous and good answers but I have lost interest in this group because of
a certain few folks that seem to have fun ridiculing others with their flame
wars and childish comments.

Aw, shucks, you're being too kind. Don't try to flatter us.

And just who is "us"?