D300S early report - sound

I have been using the D300S for a few days now. The arrival of ACR 5.5RC
has made a big difference to testing it, having just had the D3000 and
had to test that purely on the basis of ViewNX conversions and in-camera
JPEGs.

Control aspects of the camera strike me as preferable to the D300, with
the dedicated LV button resembling the D5000, and the same basic process
used to initiate movies. Unlike the D5000, there is no audible click
from the OK button when starting each filmed clip.

Also, the wind noise and handling noise is much reduced, and high sound
pressure levels (parties, gigs etc) do not result in the extreme
clipping and distortion found with the auto gain of the D90 and D5000
built-in mics.

But the price paid is high - the stereo mic has been 'rolled off' for
all frequencies over a certain level. It may be around 8kHz. The 5kHz
slider has some audible effect when attempting to EQ the sound, but
10kHz and 20kHz - the critical high frequencies which convey harmonics
and give sound a realistic feel - have no effect at all, showing that
the top end is killed. Of course, this reduces noise from the VR lens,
which whispers gently somewhere in this region, as well as some handling
noise - and a lot of live sound clipping.

The result is stereo sound which is muffled, mushy and very lacking in
clarity whether for voice to camera, ambient sound or music.

Fitting two Minolta DM-1 camcorder tele mics on a handgrip as a stereo
rig produced amazingly crisp, high volume input with full dynamics and
frequency range. However even the lowest sensitivy setting allowed them
to clip badly when confronted with amplified live music (not excessively
loud either).

An Audio Technica stereo mic, which I have always found rather low gain
and lacking high end, produced an acceptable compromise needing medium
gain. Nikon UK does not yet have samples of the dedicated stereo mic
made for the D300S.

HD video quality otherwise is identical to the D5000, and still image
quality seems to be as well. Certainly you can shoot any subject,
including portraiture, at ISO 400 without the slightest concern - and
shots at 1600, whether still or video, are 'class leading'.


David

"David Kilpatrick" wrote in message
...
I have been using the D300S for a few days now. The arrival of ACR 5.5RC
has made a big difference to testing it, having just had the D3000 and had
to test that purely on the basis of ViewNX conversions and in-camera JPEGs.

Control aspects of the camera strike me as preferable to the D300, with
the dedicated LV button resembling the D5000, and the same basic process
used to initiate movies. Unlike the D5000, there is no audible click from
the OK button when starting each filmed clip.

Also, the wind noise and handling noise is much reduced, and high sound
pressure levels (parties, gigs etc) do not result in the extreme clipping
and distortion found with the auto gain of the D90 and D5000 built-in
mics.

But the price paid is high - the stereo mic has been 'rolled off' for all
frequencies over a certain level. It may be around 8kHz. The 5kHz slider
has some audible effect when attempting to EQ the sound, but 10kHz and
20kHz - the critical high frequencies which convey harmonics and give
sound a realistic feel - have no effect at all, showing that the top end
is killed. Of course, this reduces noise from the VR lens, which whispers
gently somewhere in this region, as well as some handling noise - and a
lot of live sound clipping.

The result is stereo sound which is muffled, mushy and very lacking in
clarity whether for voice to camera, ambient sound or music.

Fitting two Minolta DM-1 camcorder tele mics on a handgrip as a stereo rig
produced amazingly crisp, high volume input with full dynamics and
frequency range. However even the lowest sensitivy setting allowed them to
clip badly when confronted with amplified live music (not excessively loud
either).

An Audio Technica stereo mic, which I have always found rather low gain
and lacking high end, produced an acceptable compromise needing medium
gain. Nikon UK does not yet have samples of the dedicated stereo mic made
for the D300S.

HD video quality otherwise is identical to the D5000, and still image
quality seems to be as well. Certainly you can shoot any subject,
including portraiture, at ISO 400 without the slightest concern - and
shots at 1600, whether still or video, are 'class leading'.


David

WTF, FFS can it actually take photograhs?

Er..yeah...For a minute there I thought you was going to mention
something important about this camera.


On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 06:44:12 +1000, "Pete D" wrote:


"David Kilpatrick" wrote in message
...
I have been using the D300S for a few days now. The arrival of ACR 5.5RC
has made a big difference to testing it, having just had the D3000 and had
to test that purely on the basis of ViewNX conversions and in-camera JPEGs.

Control aspects of the camera strike me as preferable to the D300, with
the dedicated LV button resembling the D5000, and the same basic process
used to initiate movies. Unlike the D5000, there is no audible click from
the OK button when starting each filmed clip.

Also, the wind noise and handling noise is much reduced, and high sound
pressure levels (parties, gigs etc) do not result in the extreme clipping
and distortion found with the auto gain of the D90 and D5000 built-in
mics.

But the price paid is high - the stereo mic has been 'rolled off' for all
frequencies over a certain level. It may be around 8kHz. The 5kHz slider
has some audible effect when attempting to EQ the sound, but 10kHz and
20kHz - the critical high frequencies which convey harmonics and give
sound a realistic feel - have no effect at all, showing that the top end
is killed. Of course, this reduces noise from the VR lens, which whispers
gently somewhere in this region, as well as some handling noise - and a
lot of live sound clipping.

The result is stereo sound which is muffled, mushy and very lacking in
clarity whether for voice to camera, ambient sound or music.

Fitting two Minolta DM-1 camcorder tele mics on a handgrip as a stereo rig
produced amazingly crisp, high volume input with full dynamics and
frequency range. However even the lowest sensitivy setting allowed them to
clip badly when confronted with amplified live music (not excessively loud
either).

An Audio Technica stereo mic, which I have always found rather low gain
and lacking high end, produced an acceptable compromise needing medium
gain. Nikon UK does not yet have samples of the dedicated stereo mic made
for the D300S.

HD video quality otherwise is identical to the D5000, and still image
quality seems to be as well. Certainly you can shoot any subject,
including portraiture, at ISO 400 without the slightest concern - and
shots at 1600, whether still or video, are 'class leading'.


David

WTF, FFS can it actually take photograhs?

Hehe, the heading did say "early report - sound" ;-)

mind you sound is pretty easy and they should get it right.

wrote in message
news
Er..yeah...For a minute there I thought you was going to mention
something important about this camera.


On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 06:44:12 +1000, "Pete D" wrote:


"David Kilpatrick" wrote in message
.. .
I have been using the D300S for a few days now. The arrival of ACR 5.5RC
has made a big difference to testing it, having just had the D3000 and
had
to test that purely on the basis of ViewNX conversions and in-camera
JPEGs.

Control aspects of the camera strike me as preferable to the D300, with
the dedicated LV button resembling the D5000, and the same basic process
used to initiate movies. Unlike the D5000, there is no audible click
from
the OK button when starting each filmed clip.

Also, the wind noise and handling noise is much reduced, and high sound
pressure levels (parties, gigs etc) do not result in the extreme
clipping
and distortion found with the auto gain of the D90 and D5000 built-in
mics.

But the price paid is high - the stereo mic has been 'rolled off' for
all
frequencies over a certain level. It may be around 8kHz. The 5kHz slider
has some audible effect when attempting to EQ the sound, but 10kHz and
20kHz - the critical high frequencies which convey harmonics and give
sound a realistic feel - have no effect at all, showing that the top end
is killed. Of course, this reduces noise from the VR lens, which
whispers
gently somewhere in this region, as well as some handling noise - and a
lot of live sound clipping.

The result is stereo sound which is muffled, mushy and very lacking in
clarity whether for voice to camera, ambient sound or music.

Fitting two Minolta DM-1 camcorder tele mics on a handgrip as a stereo
rig
produced amazingly crisp, high volume input with full dynamics and
frequency range. However even the lowest sensitivy setting allowed them
to
clip badly when confronted with amplified live music (not excessively
loud
either).

An Audio Technica stereo mic, which I have always found rather low gain
and lacking high end, produced an acceptable compromise needing medium
gain. Nikon UK does not yet have samples of the dedicated stereo mic
made
for the D300S.

HD video quality otherwise is identical to the D5000, and still image
quality seems to be as well. Certainly you can shoot any subject,
including portraiture, at ISO 400 without the slightest concern - and
shots at 1600, whether still or video, are 'class leading'.


David

WTF, FFS can it actually take photograhs?

Some of us care more about picture quality.

Anyway, thanks.

wrote:
Er..yeah...For a minute there I thought you was going to mention
something important about this camera.


Sound quality on video is the major concern with this type of DSLR.
That's why Nikon has gone to the extent of putting stereo external input
with four stages of gain/mic matching control in place. It's not
entirely fixed until the problems of sound pressure with small diaphragm
electret condensor mics are overcome.

As for the rest, it's a very nice improved D300S on the still
photography front, with a minor improvement to ergonomics and more
responsive LV focusing (still no use for video-with-AF). I've been
shooting with the new 10-24mm and the 16-85mm VR (familiar, but I know
this is a good lens and a suitable choice for all-round testing) today.
Using the D5000 and the D300S side by side. The D300S will get a proper
trial at the weekend when the Honda Goldwing Treffen arrives in town,
some good subjects, and an Elinchrom Quadra two-head battery location
flash kit should add something to the mix.

David

RichA wrote:

David Kilpatrick wrote:
wrote:
Er..yeah...For a minute there I thought you was going to mention
something important about this camera.

Sound quality on video is the major concern with this type of DSLR.
That's why Nikon has gone to the extent of putting stereo external input
with four stages of gain/mic matching control in place. It's not
entirely fixed until the problems of sound pressure with small diaphragm
electret condensor mics are overcome.

Sure it's been overcome. Only a lazy loser would think the could
record quality sound on a device that is little better than a digital
voice record. For the idiots out there, factor-in another $200 for a
Rode mic and you'll be ok, otherwise, do some frigging homework so
your $1800 TOY doesn't surprise you.


This would all be fine, except that some much cheaper devices with
built-in mics do far better than the Nikon or Canon models with no
external mic input option. I have a Sanyo XActi which can capture
excellent quality stereo sound from high pressure sound environments -
amplified gigs at close quarters - and even the Kodak Zi6 which I use as
a 'reporter's video notebook' for events I am covering will handle a
rock concert without clipping.

What I actually use for sound when conditions permit (i.e. not using the
camera for an ENG type situation) is a Zoom H2; for anything better, I
use an AIWA DAT recorder with a Mackie Onyx Satellite preamp and a
choice of various studio condensor mics. The AIWA has been good enough
for commercially released live CD tracks.

The built-in mic on the D300S is so powerfully rolled off above 5kHz
that the sound is far worse than the D5000. The noise of the VR
mechanism (more than the SWM focus) picks up so much even with this
rolloff that it has to be switched off. With a shotgun mic attached, the
VR does not even register - and you can get a full sound spectrum, no
rolloff of high frequencies.

As to the 'toy' aspect of something like the D300S video function,
that's just a head-in-sand reaction. I started out being sent the 5D
MkII to test and not bothering even to try to make a video. I thought it
was of no interest. The D90 got a bit more attention but I still didn't
really study the video aspect. I thought these were one-off aberrations,
and didn't realise back then how ALL DSLRs would have HD video - or
people expecting to see it - within just a year.

Now that they do, it's my job to test it (and it should have been back
with the 5D MkII - but at that time, I felt the way most people here
seem to).

David

"Bud" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:19:52 +0100, David Kilpatrick
wrote:

wrote:
Er..yeah...For a minute there I thought you was going to mention
something important about this camera.


Sound quality on video is the major concern with this type of DSLR.

Only a complete idiot would want to do video with a digital still
camera.

Sounds like, "why would anyone want to take photos with their phone", sounds
like a gimick to me too, will never catch on.

Cheers.

Pete

eNo wrote:
On Aug 24, 2:54 am, David Kilpatrick wrote:
I have been using the D300S for a few days now. The arrival of ACR 5.5RC
has made a big difference to testing it, having just had the D3000 and
had to test that purely on the basis of ViewNX conversions and in-camera
JPEGs.

Yeah, but does it take good photos? After refusing to use the video
mode on my D90, I was surprised at how useful it is, with all its
limitations. But I still find it curious that after this first
paragraph, you say little if anything about image quality. I am
particularly interested in how the RAW images compare to the D300 in
terms of noise at higher ISOs.



As far as I can tell so far, the D300S is equal in image quality to the
D5000 - which is a notch above the D300 and D90. I have only processed a
few raws, quite a number in existing light at ISO 400 which - like the
D5000 - might as well be ISO 100 on some other systems.

I'll be doing some higher ISO shooting over the weekend.

David