Fixing bath without ammonium thiosulfate

Hi all, I'm looking for formulations of fixing bath without using
ammonium thiosulfate. By now I have the Ilford IF-2 formulation (sodium
thiosulfate 200 g, potassim metabisulfite 12.5 g per liter of water).
Any opinion about this one?

Thanks all

P.

On 23 Nov 2005 03:40:22 -0800,
wrote:

Hi all, I'm looking for formulations of fixing bath without using
ammonium thiosulfate. By now I have the Ilford IF-2 formulation (sodium
thiosulfate 200 g, potassim metabisulfite 12.5 g per liter of water).
Any opinion about this one?

Thanks all

P.


November 23, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick,

I've been using the fix that Ansel Adams
called "Plain Fix". He published the formula
in the appendix of his book, 'The Print'.

It's a very simple formula -- one liter
water, 160 grams of sodium thiosulfate
anhydrous, and 15-25 grams of sodium sulfite
anhydrous. It is odorless, easy to prepare,
and cheap.

I've been using it for several years, for
both film and paper. It works and stores as
well as any commercial fix I've ever used. I
started using it because I wanted to make my
darkroom odor free.

I have a few articles relating to this on my
website, under the 'technical' button in the
table of contents.

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email:
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________
--

Why? Ammonium salt fixers are better!

wrote:
Hi all, I'm looking for formulations of fixing bath without using
ammonium thiosulfate. By now I have the Ilford IF-2 formulation (sodium
thiosulfate 200 g, potassim metabisulfite 12.5 g per liter of water).
Any opinion about this one?

Thanks all

P.

Lloyd Erlick wrote:
On 23 Nov 2005 03:40:22 -0800,
wrote:

Hi all, I'm looking for formulations of fixing bath without using
ammonium thiosulfate. By now I have the Ilford IF-2 formulation (sodium
thiosulfate 200 g, potassim metabisulfite 12.5 g per liter of water).
Any opinion about this one?

Thanks all

P.


November 23, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick,

I've been using the fix that Ansel Adams
called "Plain Fix". He published the formula
in the appendix of his book, 'The Print'.

It's a very simple formula -- one liter
water, 160 grams of sodium thiosulfate
anhydrous, and 15-25 grams of sodium sulfite
anhydrous. It is odorless, easy to prepare,
and cheap.

I've been using it for several years, for
both film and paper. It works and stores as
well as any commercial fix I've ever used. I
started using it because I wanted to make my
darkroom odor free.

I have a few articles relating to this on my
website, under the 'technical' button in the
table of contents.

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email:
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________
--
Thanks for your answer. Is this a stock solution? And if so, how much
must I diluite it?
P.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all, I'm looking for formulations of fixing bath
without using
ammonium thiosulfate. By now I have the Ilford IF-2
formulation (sodium
thiosulfate 200 g, potassim metabisulfite 12.5 g per liter
of water).
Any opinion about this one?

Thanks all

P.

Why are you trying to avoid Ammonium Thiosulfate?
Ammonium thiosulfate is the basis for all "rapid" fixers.
Standard fixers use Sodium thiosulfate, nearly any fixer
formula can be made up with either if the amount of the
Thiosulfate is adjusted.
The Ilford fixer above is a "plain", that is
non-hardening bath although it will be mildly acid because
of the metabisulfite. If you want a neutral or slightly
alkaline bath use Sodium sulfite instead. Fixers of this
sort have little or no odor. The amount of sulfite or
metabisulfite is not critical as long as there is enough to
protect the thiosulfate from aerial oxidation and to prevent
staining from carried over developer. For a low acid fixing
bath even 5 grams per liter is enough.
The amount of thiosulfate depends on its hydration.
Sodium thiosulfate comes in two forms, crystalline
(pentahydrate) and anhydrous. Standard fixing baths have
about 240 grams per liter of the crystalline type or 160
grams of the anhydrous type. There is no difference when
mixed.
For those interested in making up "rapid" fixer
crystalline Ammonium thiosulfate may be substituted for
crystaline Sodium thiosulfate by using 60% by weight in any
standard fixer formula.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:02:09 -0600, Richard Knoppow
wrote:

For a low acid fixing
bath even 5 grams per liter is enough.

One other solution is to use boric or citric acids which has almost no
odor. However I think this formula from Kodak is fine :

Kodak's F-24 Fixer
Water @ 125F 750ml
Sod. Thiosulfate 240g
Sod.Sulfite 10g
Sod. Bisulfite 25g
Water to make 1.0L

--

Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer & Webmaster
http://www.puresilver.org - http://www.legacy-photo.com

I know I should know this, but is the Thiosulfate in the formula
pentahydrate or anhydrous?

"John" wrote in message
newsp.s0qb11e1uvfup0@jd...
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:02:09 -0600, Richard Knoppow
wrote:

For a low acid fixing
bath even 5 grams per liter is enough.

One other solution is to use boric or citric acids which has almost no
odor. However I think this formula from Kodak is fine :

Kodak's F-24 Fixer
Water @ 125F 750ml Sod. Thiosulfate 240g Sod.Sulfite 10g
Sod. Bisulfite 25g Water to make 1.0L

--

Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer & Webmaster
http://www.puresilver.org - http://www.legacy-photo.com

lew wrote:
I know I should know this, but is the Thiosulfate in the formula
pentahydrate or anhydrous?

In USA, anhydrous is difficult to get. In F-24 it is pentahydrate.

"John" wrote in message
newsp.s0qb11e1uvfup0@jd...

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:02:09 -0600, Richard Knoppow
wrote:


For a low acid fixing
bath even 5 grams per liter is enough.

One other solution is to use boric or citric acids which has almost no
odor. However I think this formula from Kodak is fine :

Kodak's F-24 Fixer
Water @ 125F 750ml Sod. Thiosulfate 240g Sod.Sulfite 10g
Sod. Bisulfite 25g Water to make 1.0L

--

Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer & Webmaster
http://www.puresilver.org - http://www.legacy-photo.com





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/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 08:50:00 up 46 days, 8:15, 4 users, load average: 4.28, 4.23, 4.19

On 23 Nov 2005 10:16:35 -0800,
wrote:

Thanks for your answer. Is this a stock solution? And if so, how much
must I diluite it?
P.


November 24, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick,

It's a working solution. No dilution. It has
a capacity of about 25 8x10s (or equivalent)
per liter, same as most sodium thiosulfate
based fixers. I always use it as part of a
double bath setup, and I also only use it to
about two thirds of its supposed capacity (so
that's around 50 8x10s per three liters of
fixer). (Actually, since I use a double
bath,I fix 50 8x10s in a total of six liters,
which I then discard and replace, but that's
just my belt and suspenders approach.)

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email:
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________
--

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 19:02:09 GMT, "Richard
Knoppow" wrote:

Why are you trying to avoid Ammonium Thiosulfate?
Ammonium thiosulfate is the basis for all "rapid" fixers.


November 24, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick,

Most available rapid fixers stink powerfully
of sulfur dioxide. I got tired of a smelly
darkroom, and eliminated all sources of
smell.

Sodium thiosulfate is easy to obtain, and it
is cheap. It is also easy to store and
handle, unlike ammonium thiosulfate, which
tends to be supplied in a rather expensive,
hard to obtain water solution.

When an ammonium thiosulfate based fixer
dries in dribbles and droplets on one's
darkroom sink, the deposits are rock hard and
difficult to remove. Sodium thiosulfate based
solutions pose no cleanup problems.

Sodium thiosulfate based fix has a much lower
capacity than ammonium. My overall throughput
in my darkroom is quite low compared to a
commercial lab. I do not wish to have a fixer
that will sit around gathering silver and
aging while I slowly process enough films to
use it up. My sodium thiosulfate based fixer
depletes after only a few uses at my rate, so
it is much fresher and contains much less
silver than a comparable ammonium based fixer
under my usage. Since Adams' 'plain fixer' is
so cheap to make up, I'm not tempted to
stretch it out and risk the future utility of
my negatives.

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email:
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________
--