Portland Gestapo Ask Homeowners, Businesses To Register Surveillance Cameras

In article 2017050123461887844-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

The red light camera in California is in decline, mostly due to the
squirrelly lease and fine splitting deals.

and that paying is optional.


I have never received a red light camera ticket. I have had my fair
share of speeding tickets, nothing in many years.

you didn't get a verbal warning when they saw you're a brother?

On 2017-05-02 06:53:48 +0000, nospam said:

In article 2017050123461887844-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

The red light camera in California is in decline, mostly due to the
squirrelly lease and fine splitting deals.

and that paying is optional.


I have never received a red light camera ticket. I have had my fair
share of speeding tickets, nothing in many years.

you didn't get a verbal warning when they saw you're a brother?

On different three occasions back when I was still a sergeant, between
1993-96 and I was driving in uniform, but with a cover jacket. I was
stopped by CHP, asked my destination and where I was driving from. I
was then courteously told to "take it easy".

Also because of my peace officer status my number plate was anonymized
for inquiry. CHP would have known they were dealing with a cop as they
would have drawn a blank for vehicle owner and registered address when
they called in a registration inquiry.

There were some times I was pulled over and ticketed, but I was off
duty and I was not going to pull the "brother cop" act. One of those
tickets was written by a Federal cop outside Fort Hunter-Liggett,
California on Thanksgiving day, on a road which was usually deserted.
The SOB was using radar in a suburban with no ink, or lightbar.
--
Regards,

Savageduck

In article 2017050200262830193-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

I have never received a red light camera ticket. I have had my fair
share of speeding tickets, nothing in many years.

you didn't get a verbal warning when they saw you're a brother?

On different three occasions back when I was still a sergeant, between
1993-96 and I was driving in uniform, but with a cover jacket. I was
stopped by CHP, asked my destination and where I was driving from. I
was then courteously told to "take it easy".

that's what i thought.

Also because of my peace officer status my number plate was anonymized
for inquiry. CHP would have known they were dealing with a cop as they
would have drawn a blank for vehicle owner and registered address when
they called in a registration inquiry.

that helps too.

There were some times I was pulled over and ticketed, but I was off
duty and I was not going to pull the "brother cop" act.

why wouldn't other cops see the blank owner/reg?

One of those
tickets was written by a Federal cop outside Fort Hunter-Liggett,
California on Thanksgiving day, on a road which was usually deserted.

it's all about the money...

The SOB was using radar in a suburban with no ink, or lightbar.

isn't that illegal?

On 2017-05-02 07:34:27 +0000, nospam said:

In article 2017050200262830193-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

I have never received a red light camera ticket. I have had my fair
share of speeding tickets, nothing in many years.

you didn't get a verbal warning when they saw you're a brother?

On different three occasions back when I was still a sergeant, between
1993-96 and I was driving in uniform, but with a cover jacket. I was
stopped by CHP, asked my destination and where I was driving from. I
was then courteously told to "take it easy".

that's what i thought.

Also because of my peace officer status my number plate was anonymized
for inquiry. CHP would have known they were dealing with a cop as they
would have drawn a blank for vehicle owner and registered address when
they called in a registration inquiry.

that helps too.

There were some times I was pulled over and ticketed, but I was off
duty and I was not going to pull the "brother cop" act.

why wouldn't other cops see the blank owner/reg?

They would/did, but there is a time and place for pushing one's status.
I choose not to push that envelope, and there is an element of an
ethic/attitude test. I was not about to whip out my flat badge to try
and gain some sort of undue influence. However, if they pushed and
actually asked the question, I would have explained that the owner/reg
was blank was due to me being "on the job", but they would/should have
known. Writing the ticket would still be at the discretion of the cop,
and on each of those occassions I have to admit it was a fair cop, I
was speeding.

One of those
tickets was written by a Federal cop outside Fort Hunter-Liggett,
California on Thanksgiving day, on a road which was usually deserted.

it's all about the money...

The SOB was using radar in a suburban with no ink, or lightbar.

isn't that illegal?

Nope! It was a plain wrapper Fed vehicle, with Fed plates.
--
Regards,

Savageduck

"Tony Cooper" wrote

| Florida sounds like a weird place, indeed, what with
| locals pleased to get tickets for legal driving,
|
| Red light cameras are currently in use in 24 states and the District
| of Columbia. Locals who clear an intersection before the light turns
| red, or come to a stop before turning right on red, are not ticketed
| and those who don't are not driving legally at that time.
|

You said you got a ticket for running a yellow light.
So it turned red before you reached the other side
and you're happy to pay a fee? Where I come from
that's called a scam that exploits the letter of the law.
It angers people and degrades respect for the law. It
also tends to make people feel that they're in opposition
to police. The only police most people will have experience
with are the ones the running scams.

Your own attitude is that of a person who no longer
thinks of themselves as a citizen. If you did you'd want
your city to act honorably. Your description of Orlando's
situation sounds more like someone talking business:
It's a good scam because it pays for body cams for the
police. I guess the implication there is that you might
have to pay $158, but you've saved thousands on
property tax fees by scamming unsuspecting tourists.
I guess that's what we should expect from a tourist
destination that hosts the likes of Disney. Tourist areas
always base their economy on fleecing visitors.

There was an interesting story about camera scams in
Chicago awhile back:

http://time.com/3505994/red-light-ca...blems-tickets/

Last I heard, Chicago had agreed to lengthen yellow
lights by a tiny bit, but they were complaining about
how they'd lose millions as a result. ... And to think the
US used to be a first world country.

Fortunately I'm not aware of any New England states
that have started running this scam yet, but I guess I'd
better keep an eye out for it.

On 5/2/2017 1:39 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-02 05:19:01 +0000, Tony Cooper said:

On Mon, 1 May 2017 16:08:35 -0400, PAS wrote:

I oppose the red light camera program in this city. I see the need to
discourage drivers from blowing through yellow lights because there
are so many accidents caused by this. These accidents can be more
severe than a lot of rear-enders because the yellow light runner often
accelerates to make the light and the result is a broadside collision.

Red light cameras have reduced the number of T-bone accidents here on
Long Island but they've increased the amount of rear-end accidents.

The same has been found in Orlando, but the t-bone accidents tend to
result in more damage to people and vehicles.

The fine here is $158, which I understand is much lower than in some
areas.

Wow, that makes our fine look downright cheap. The fine here is $50.00
plus the $30.00 surcharge for a total of $80.00.

Wait until the California readers tell us their fine amount.

21453(a) VC; running a Red light = $495
22450 VC; Rolling through a stop sign = $238


Yikes!

On 5/1/2017 5:05 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PAS wrote:

It is all about revenue, just as red light cameras are.
I oppose the red light camera program in this city. I see the need to
discourage drivers from blowing through yellow lights because there
are so many accidents caused by this. These accidents can be more
severe than a lot of rear-enders because the yellow light runner often
accelerates to make the light and the result is a broadside collision.
red light cameras are a complete scam for all sorts of reasons.

the solution does not need cameras at all. simply lengthen the timing
of the yellow light cycle and the number of red light runners drops to
nearly zero. problem solved.

except there's no revenue in that, so it won't ever happen.

not surprisingly, the *opposite* happens. some cities have yellow light
timings that are too short, which increases the number of people who
run red lights which increases revenue.

they claim it was 'a mistake'. sure it was. a rather profitable
'mistake'. and if it really was a mistake, then they're negligent.
The NYS DOT sets a minimum amount of time for a yellow light, I believe
it's three seconds. There are many yellow lights which exceed that time
and that's perfectly fine. However, when a red light camera is
installed, the timing of the yellow light is checked and if it is longer
than three seconds, it's reduced to three seconds in order to increase
the chance of more people running the light. It's blatantly obvious
it's just a money grab.
and if you challenge them, they might fine you:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...e-muzzles-red-
light-camera-critique-n751371
After his wife got a ticket based on a red light camera in Beaverton,
Oregon, Mats Järlström, a Swedish-born electronics engineer, studied
the calculations used to determine the length of the yellow light
cycle. He concluded it was too short, because it failed to account
for the longer time a driver needed to turn a corner, rather than go
straight through the intersection.

Convinced the cameras were using an out-of-date formula, he took his
message to practically anyone who would listen ‹ local TV stations, a
conference of traffic engineers, and even the state board of engineer
examiners.

Mats Järlström in Beaverton, Oregon was fined $500 by speaking about
engineering issues without a license, according to the board of
engineer examiners, when he studied the calculations used to
determine the length of the yellow light cycle after his wife
received a ticket based on a red light camera. Institute for Justice

That's what got him in trouble.

The board fined him $500 and said he was violating a state law by
speaking about engineering issues without a license.

That is a clear violation of his 1st Amendment rights.

On 2017-05-02 14:07:29 +0000, PAS said:

On 5/2/2017 1:39 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-02 05:19:01 +0000, Tony Cooper said:

On Mon, 1 May 2017 16:08:35 -0400, PAS wrote:

I oppose the red light camera program in this city. I see the need to
discourage drivers from blowing through yellow lights because there
are so many accidents caused by this. These accidents can be more
severe than a lot of rear-enders because the yellow light runner often
accelerates to make the light and the result is a broadside collision.

Red light cameras have reduced the number of T-bone accidents here on
Long Island but they've increased the amount of rear-end accidents.

The same has been found in Orlando, but the t-bone accidents tend to
result in more damage to people and vehicles.

The fine here is $158, which I understand is much lower than in some
areas.

Wow, that makes our fine look downright cheap. The fine here is $50.00
plus the $30.00 surcharge for a total of $80.00.

Wait until the California readers tell us their fine amount.

21453(a) VC; running a Red light = $495
22450 VC; Rolling through a stop sign = $238


Yikes!

Kinda grabs your attention doesn't it?

Ultimately there is more to the overall costs. If you just pay the fine
your insurance premium can increase and not be lowered for up to three
years. That can be avoided by taking the real scam, "Traffic School",
if you have been citation free for 12 months. There you have to pay the
fine, and a registration fee to the Court which varies by County, along
with the "Traffic School" charges. All of that can add up to an
additional $150-$200, all to avoid higher insurance premiums for three
years.
--
Regards,

Savageduck

In article 2017050200533044054-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

There were some times I was pulled over and ticketed, but I was off
duty and I was not going to pull the "brother cop" act.

why wouldn't other cops see the blank owner/reg?

They would/did, but there is a time and place for pushing one's status.
I choose not to push that envelope, and there is an element of an
ethic/attitude test. I was not about to whip out my flat badge to try
and gain some sort of undue influence. However, if they pushed and
actually asked the question, I would have explained that the owner/reg
was blank was due to me being "on the job", but they would/should have
known. Writing the ticket would still be at the discretion of the cop,
and on each of those occassions I have to admit it was a fair cop, I
was speeding.

why would you need to push your status? they'll see it when they run
your info.

One of those
tickets was written by a Federal cop outside Fort Hunter-Liggett,
California on Thanksgiving day, on a road which was usually deserted.

it's all about the money...

The SOB was using radar in a suburban with no ink, or lightbar.

isn't that illegal?

Nope! It was a plain wrapper Fed vehicle, with Fed plates.

unmarked?

In article , Mayayana
wrote:


| Florida sounds like a weird place, indeed, what with
| locals pleased to get tickets for legal driving,
|
| Red light cameras are currently in use in 24 states and the District
| of Columbia. Locals who clear an intersection before the light turns
| red, or come to a stop before turning right on red, are not ticketed
| and those who don't are not driving legally at that time.
|

You said you got a ticket for running a yellow light.
So it turned red before you reached the other side
and you're happy to pay a fee? Where I come from
that's called a scam that exploits the letter of the law.

it's more than a scam.

entering a yellow in florida is legal, which means the ticket is
automatically void.

it also means the camera is broken, which means *all* tickets from it
could be voided.

It angers people and degrades respect for the law. It
also tends to make people feel that they're in opposition
to police. The only police most people will have experience
with are the ones the running scams.

that's another reason why speed traps are bad.

Your own attitude is that of a person who no longer
thinks of themselves as a citizen. If you did you'd want
your city to act honorably. Your description of Orlando's
situation sounds more like someone talking business:
It's a good scam because it pays for body cams for the
police. I guess the implication there is that you might
have to pay $158, but you've saved thousands on
property tax fees by scamming unsuspecting tourists.
I guess that's what we should expect from a tourist
destination that hosts the likes of Disney. Tourist areas
always base their economy on fleecing visitors.

There was an interesting story about camera scams in
Chicago awhile back:

http://time.com/3505994/red-light-ca...blems-tickets/

Last I heard, Chicago had agreed to lengthen yellow
lights by a tiny bit, but they were complaining about
how they'd lose millions as a result. ... And to think the
US used to be a first world country.

shortening the yellow is a well known trick and not just chicago. lots
of red light tickets have been overturned because of that.

chicago is home to the redflex blackmail scam.

there is a *****load* of rlcs in chicago. ****loads.

Fortunately I'm not aware of any New England states
that have started running this scam yet, but I guess I'd
better keep an eye out for it.

consider yourself aware now.

i'm finding conflicting information for massachusetts, but there's a
bunch of rlcs in rhode island (mostly providence), new york (mostly
nyc) and pennsylvania (mostly philadelphia).

maine & new hampshire prohibit them. live free or die. vermont and
connecticut don't prohibit them, but there aren't any at this time.