Would I notice a difference with Nikon Silent Wave lenses?

I have some Nikon lenses right now with a D70. Focusing is slow and not
always accurate. Last weekend, I tried capturing some sports pics with my
80-200 F/2.8 lens and I wasn't happy with it. Now I'm going to buy a D90
for miscellaneous reasons, and while I'm doing that I thought maybe I should
get the Silent Wave version of the 80-200 lens. Would I really notice the
difference when using a Silent Wave lens?

acorn wrote:
I have some Nikon lenses right now with a D70. Focusing is slow and not
always accurate. Last weekend, I tried capturing some sports pics with
my 80-200 F/2.8 lens and I wasn't happy with it. Now I'm going to buy
a D90 for miscellaneous reasons, and while I'm doing that I thought
maybe I should get the Silent Wave version of the 80-200 lens. Would I
really notice the difference when using a Silent Wave lens?

Depends which non AF-s 80-200 you are using. The later 2-ring versions
are much faster than the older push-pull versions, but not quite as fast
as the 80-200 AF-s or 70-200 VR. AF motor wind speed is the same in all
Nikon D*0 bodies I've tried or owned. D2/3 series have a faster motor.

What I would suggest if you're often shooting action is to consider the
D300 rather than the D90, as the difference in body price is less than
the difference in lens prices, and for continuous servo AF on moving
targets, the module in the D300 is *much* better than the module in the
D80/90, and that probably makes much more difference than the mechanical
speed that the focus mechanism in the lens can be driven.

On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 22:50:58 -0700, "acorn"
wrote:

I have some Nikon lenses right now with a D70. Focusing is slow and not
always accurate. Last weekend, I tried capturing some sports pics with my
80-200 F/2.8 lens and I wasn't happy with it. Now I'm going to buy a D90
for miscellaneous reasons, and while I'm doing that I thought maybe I should
get the Silent Wave version of the 80-200 lens. Would I really notice the
difference when using a Silent Wave lens?

Probably, but you would be better off buying the 16-85 and 85-200
lens. There is no point in handicapping the D90 with a lens with a
performance the next level down. Mind you, its all a question of
$$$$$.



Eric Stevens

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 22:50:58 -0700, in rec.photo.digital "acorn"
wrote:

I have some Nikon lenses right now with a D70. Focusing is slow and not
always accurate. Last weekend, I tried capturing some sports pics with my
80-200 F/2.8 lens and I wasn't happy with it. Now I'm going to buy a D90
for miscellaneous reasons, and while I'm doing that I thought maybe I
should
get the Silent Wave version of the 80-200 lens. Would I really notice
the
difference when using a Silent Wave lens?

Someone else has pointed out that there are various versions of the
non-AF-S 80-200mm f/2.8. I shoot a lot of long f.l.shots and started
with a D70. What exactly were the settings you were using? Aperture,
shutter speed, AF-S or AF-C? You do know that AF-C mode, if you are
using it, in the D70 will release the shutter without a focus lock.

I was mostly using F2.8 or 3.3 with high shutter speeds, with aperture
priority. I wasn't using AF-C mode. I was using AF-S. But can you
explain your comment about the focus lock if I were in AF-C mode? And I
am now likely to buy the D300 instead of the D90 in case that makes any
difference to your thinking.

"acorn" wrote:
thought maybe I should
get the Silent Wave version of the 80-200 lens.
Would I really notice the
difference when using a Silent Wave lens?

Someone else has pointed out that there are various versions of the
non-AF-S 80-200mm f/2.8. I shoot a lot of long f.l.shots and started
with a D70. What exactly were the settings you were using? Aperture,
shutter speed, AF-S or AF-C? You do know that AF-C mode, if you are
using it, in the D70 will release the shutter without a focus lock.

I was mostly using F2.8 or 3.3 with high shutter speeds, with aperture
priority. I wasn't using AF-C mode. I was using AF-S. But can you
explain your comment about the focus lock if I were in AF-C mode? And I
am now likely to buy the D300 instead of the D90 in case that makes any
difference to your thinking.

I'd guess that getting the latest version of the AF-S
70-200mm f/2.8 with VR would, for your purposes make a
difference.

I have the most recent (two ring) version of the AF-D
80-200mm, f/2.8 ED, which I've used to shoot indoor
sports. Selecting "Limited" rather than "Full" focus
range is a good idea, otherwise it now and then will key
on something way too different than the last shot, and
you lose time getting it back to reality.

The D300 will help greatly (I've used mine with the D1,
the D2x and the D3).

The AF-S mode defaults to requiring a focus lock before
the shutter will fire. But the focus lock is a one shot
effort too, so if you push the shutter button half way
down, the camera will focus and then lock on that focus
and stay there as long as you hold down the shutter
release button half way. (You'll probably get in the
habit of tapping the shutter button to get the lens
refocus repeatedly.) If you hold it half way down and
move the camera or subject for a different focus
distance the focus does not change. For many things
that is exactly what is most useful, but not always.

The AF-C mode by default does not require focus to fire
the shutter, and hence will merrily take any number of
out of focus exposures you can manage! But focus is not
a one shot focus lock, and if you hold the shutter
release half way down the camera will continue to
readjust its focus. Just that if you push the shutter
release button all the way down it will fire the shutter
whether focus had been achieved or not.

Generally, for static subjects that don't move, AF-S
mode works best. For sports or other instances where
the subject is moving, AF-C usually works best. Also
note that if half way pressing the shutter button
accurately (and not accidentally firing the shutter) is
difficult, the AF-ON button accomplishes the same effect
and may be easier to use. Also, the AF-C mode enables
predictive focusing to attempt a focus at a point where
a moving object will be by the time the image is
actually exposed.

Of course there are many options for adjusting how those
modes work. (Or, at least there are on the D2x and the
D3 models that I have, but I'm not sure about the D90 or
D300. You need to download the manuals for them, and
carefully read up on what each camera can do.) As
noted, the focus lock is required by default for AF-S
and not for AF-C, but that can be changed. In practice
the default makes the AF-S/AF-C switch a focus required
on/off too, which is a handy option. But for someone
shooting a sporting event it might be very useful to set
AF-C to require focus.

I've found that in certain circumstances the AF-S with
focus lock required simply will not lock, and I can't
fire the shutter. I switch to AF-C and use that, which
sometimes gets me a few out of focus shots because I
don't hold down the shutter release button at the half
way point long enough to get a focus (in AF-C it never
actually "locks", but the option on the D3 is that it
will fire if the dot indicator says it is in focus).

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
"acorn" wrote:
thought maybe I should
get the Silent Wave version of the 80-200 lens.
Would I really notice the
difference when using a Silent Wave lens?
Someone else has pointed out that there are various versions of the
non-AF-S 80-200mm f/2.8. I shoot a lot of long f.l.shots and started
with a D70. What exactly were the settings you were using? Aperture,
shutter speed, AF-S or AF-C? You do know that AF-C mode, if you are
using it, in the D70 will release the shutter without a focus lock.
I was mostly using F2.8 or 3.3 with high shutter speeds, with aperture
priority. I wasn't using AF-C mode. I was using AF-S. But can you
explain your comment about the focus lock if I were in AF-C mode? And I
am now likely to buy the D300 instead of the D90 in case that makes any
difference to your thinking.

I'd guess that getting the latest version of the AF-S
70-200mm f/2.8 with VR would, for your purposes make a
difference.

I have the most recent (two ring) version of the AF-D
80-200mm, f/2.8 ED, which I've used to shoot indoor
sports. Selecting "Limited" rather than "Full" focus
range is a good idea, otherwise it now and then will key
on something way too different than the last shot, and
you lose time getting it back to reality.

Yes - also see note below re "focus tracking with lock-on".
The D300 will help greatly (I've used mine with the D1,
the D2x and the D3).

The AF-S mode defaults to requiring a focus lock before
the shutter will fire. But the focus lock is a one shot
effort too, so if you push the shutter button half way
down, the camera will focus and then lock on that focus
and stay there as long as you hold down the shutter
release button half way. (You'll probably get in the
habit of tapping the shutter button to get the lens
refocus repeatedly.) If you hold it half way down and
move the camera or subject for a different focus
distance the focus does not change. For many things
that is exactly what is most useful, but not always.

The AF-C mode by default does not require focus to fire
the shutter, and hence will merrily take any number of
out of focus exposures you can manage! But focus is not
a one shot focus lock, and if you hold the shutter
release half way down the camera will continue to
readjust its focus. Just that if you push the shutter
release button all the way down it will fire the shutter
whether focus had been achieved or not.

Generally, for static subjects that don't move, AF-S
mode works best. For sports or other instances where
the subject is moving, AF-C usually works best. Also
note that if half way pressing the shutter button
accurately (and not accidentally firing the shutter) is
difficult, the AF-ON button accomplishes the same effect
and may be easier to use. Also, the AF-C mode enables
predictive focusing to attempt a focus at a point where
a moving object will be by the time the image is
actually exposed.

Of course there are many options for adjusting how those
modes work. (Or, at least there are on the D2x and the
D3 models that I have, but I'm not sure about the D90 or
D300.
D3/300/700 AFAIK have same options, for continuous servo - selectable
shutter or focus priority, or "both" release+focus (some compromise -
the camera decides somehow - I never use it so can't comment more), plus
setting focus tracking with lock-on, to adjust the delay (if any) before
the camera seeks to acquire focus on (usually the background) if the
subject moves out of the focus area that is selected (9/21/51 points).
AFAIK, a difference between D80 and D90 with the same AF module is that
3d tracking has been added to the D90 - a feature that might or might
not be of use, it recognises patterns in the subject within the focus
area, and attempts to track the pattern by shifting focus points used
laterally around the frame, but with D300 not really fast enough to
track an object coming toward you or away from you fast, where "normal"
continuous servo mode and 9 or 21 AF points can work very well. For me
"3d" mode seems more gimmick than useful feature, but YMMV.
You need to download the manuals for them, and
carefully read up on what each camera can do.) As
noted, the focus lock is required by default for AF-S
and not for AF-C, but that can be changed. In practice
the default makes the AF-S/AF-C switch a focus required
on/off too, which is a handy option. But for someone
shooting a sporting event it might be very useful to set
AF-C to require focus.

Unfortunately reading the manual may not be enough - you really need to
try the cameras in conjunction with knowing what the features are to
work out how these things work. Or you can trust opinion, that D300 (or
better - D3/700) is a big step above anything other current model in the
Nikon line, then spend the days or weeks learning how to use it.

I've found that in certain circumstances the AF-S with
focus lock required simply will not lock, and I can't
fire the shutter. I switch to AF-C and use that, which
sometimes gets me a few out of focus shots because I
don't hold down the shutter release button at the half
way point long enough to get a focus (in AF-C it never
actually "locks", but the option on the D3 is that it
will fire if the dot indicator says it is in focus).

I've found that with lenses (ultra-wide) where with D70 and D80 there
was difficulty achieving AF lock using the edge sensors, that the D300
is much much better. In the case of the extreme edge sensors in the
D3/700/300, they are still not "cross" type, but perform much better
than the D80 or D70. Using the centre cross type sensors in low light
with any lens, there is also no comparison.

Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
"acorn" wrote:
thought maybe I should
get the Silent Wave version of the 80-200 lens.
Would I really notice the
difference when using a Silent Wave lens?
Someone else has pointed out that there are various versions of the
non-AF-S 80-200mm f/2.8. I shoot a lot of long f.l.shots and started
with a D70. What exactly were the settings you were using? Aperture,
shutter speed, AF-S or AF-C? You do know that AF-C mode, if you are
using it, in the D70 will release the shutter without a focus lock.
I was mostly using F2.8 or 3.3 with high shutter speeds, with aperture
priority. I wasn't using AF-C mode. I was using AF-S. But can you
explain your comment about the focus lock if I were in AF-C mode? And I
am now likely to buy the D300 instead of the D90 in case that makes any
difference to your thinking.

I'd guess that getting the latest version of the AF-S
70-200mm f/2.8 with VR would, for your purposes make a
difference.

I have the most recent (two ring) version of the AF-D
80-200mm, f/2.8 ED, which I've used to shoot indoor
sports. Selecting "Limited" rather than "Full" focus
range is a good idea, otherwise it now and then will key
on something way too different than the last shot, and
you lose time getting it back to reality.

The D300 will help greatly (I've used mine with the D1,
the D2x and the D3).
Floyd,

Does the D300 have better image quality than the D2x? I'm
just curious. My path was D1x, D80, D300, I skipped the D2X. My D300
is wonderful and I love it.

Snipped.




--
Sheila
http://swdalton.com

Sheila wrote:
The D300 will help greatly (I've used mine with the D1,
the D2x and the D3).
Floyd,

Does the D300 have better image quality than the D2x? I'm
just curious. My path was D1x, D80, D300, I skipped the D2X. My D300
is wonderful and I love it.

I have not been in a position to compare the D2x with
the D300 in any critical way. I assume the D300 would
have less noise at ISO 800 or 1600, but at lower values
there is probably no difference at all, or the D2x might
be slightly better.

But generally that is not the reason to choose one of
those models over the other. If the budget does not
allow a D3 or a D700, or if DX is better suited to the
requirements than FX, the D300 and D2x are the top
candidates. But the D300 is a prosumer model and the
D2x is a pro model. One is larger and heavier, and has
every feature Nikon could cram into a DSLR at the time.
The other is smaller lighter, and lacks some
features... but it is also newer and has some (such as
14-bit raw data) features not available when the D2x
came out.

I'd be *very* hard pressed to choose one over the
other...

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)