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Infrared photography



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 25th 08, 03:44 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
DaveC
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Posts: 15
Default Infrared photography

I want to photograph and video in infrared mode.

I understand that some point-and-shoot cameras provide this style of
photography/videography. Alternately, some people have "hacked" a camera by
removing the IR filter from in front of the imaging element. There are
instructions on-line to DIY this, or to send in your P&S to have it done.

Basically, the IR filter is removed and replaced with another (not a
procedure for the faint at heart). The replacement filter is $$$.

My question is this: is this replacement filter that passes rather than
blocks IR available as a gelatin or other commonly available filter that I
can source elsewhere other than from these camera-mod services?

Or can I just strip off the existing filter and not replace it with anything?
I'm looking for quantitative data (the existence of IR) not qualitative data
(a pretty picture). What function does the replacement filter provide (other
than passing IR data)?

To clarify, I want to "see" IR images real-time in the viewfinder, not
post-process the image data to reveal the IR.

If there's another forum you suggest I should ask this question in, please
let me know.

Thanks,
--
DaveC

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Please reply in the news group

  #2  
Old September 25th 08, 04:15 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
Eric Miller
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Posts: 105
Default Infrared photography

"DaveC" wrote in message
obal.net...
I want to photograph and video in infrared mode.

I understand that some point-and-shoot cameras provide this style of
photography/videography. Alternately, some people have "hacked" a camera
by
removing the IR filter from in front of the imaging element. There are
instructions on-line to DIY this, or to send in your P&S to have it done.

Basically, the IR filter is removed and replaced with another (not a
procedure for the faint at heart). The replacement filter is $$$.

My question is this: is this replacement filter that passes rather than
blocks IR available as a gelatin or other commonly available filter that I
can source elsewhere other than from these camera-mod services?

Or can I just strip off the existing filter and not replace it with
anything?
I'm looking for quantitative data (the existence of IR) not qualitative
data
(a pretty picture). What function does the replacement filter provide
(other
than passing IR data)?

To clarify, I want to "see" IR images real-time in the viewfinder, not
post-process the image data to reveal the IR.

If there's another forum you suggest I should ask this question in, please
let me know.

Thanks,
--
DaveC

This is an invalid return address
Please reply in the news group



I don't know much about most of this, but it seems that once you remove the
IR filter from the sensor, you could just attach an appropriate IR filter to
the front of the lens. Of course, you would need the appropriate filter for
each of the lenses that you use.

Eric Miller
www.dyesscreek.com


  #3  
Old September 25th 08, 04:25 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
Jürgen Exner
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Posts: 1,579
Default Infrared photography

DaveC wrote:
I'm looking for quantitative data (the existence of IR) not qualitative data
(a pretty picture).


Isn't that the other way round?
Qualitative meaning just yes/no while quantitative in addition tells you
how much, e.g. darker or lighter on a b/w IR-image or
blue/green/yellow/red/white on a color IR-image?

jue
  #4  
Old September 25th 08, 04:58 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
DaveC
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Posts: 15
Default Infrared photography

Isn't that the other way round?
Qualitative meaning just yes/no while quantitative in addition tells you
how much, e.g. darker or lighter on a b/w IR-image or
blue/green/yellow/red/white on a color IR-image?

jue


Quantitative: does it exist? do we have presence or absence? 0 or 0?

Qualitative: what are its qualities?

But to define in other terms, I want images that show the existence of IR
wavelengths. If it's not a pretty picture, that's OK.

Please let's not detour into this realm. Those who want to discuss
quantitative vs. qualitative please start another thread...

Thanks,
--
DaveC

This is an invalid return address
Please reply in the news group

  #5  
Old September 25th 08, 06:23 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
Jürgen Exner
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Posts: 1,579
Default OT: qualitative/quantitative (WAS: Infrared photography)

DaveC wrote:
Isn't that the other way round?
Qualitative meaning just yes/no while quantitative in addition tells you
how much, e.g. darker or lighter on a b/w IR-image or
blue/green/yellow/red/white on a color IR-image?


Quantitative: does it exist? do we have presence or absence? 0 or 0?
Qualitative: what are its qualities?


That is opposite to what I learned in science, especially in chemistry.

There a qualitative analysis tells you _which_ components are present in
a sample (yes/no).
And a quantitative analysis tells you _how much_ (what quantity) of each
component can be found.

Wikipedia seems to support this view:
"A quantitative attribute is one that exists in a range of magnitudes,
and can therefore be measured. Measurements of any particular
quantitative property are expressed as a specific quantity, referred to
as a unit, multiplied by a number. Examples of physical quantities are
distance, mass, and time."

Please let's not detour into this realm. Those who want to discuss
quantitative vs. qualitative please start another thread...


Ooops :-). "Subject" adjusted as requested.

jue
  #6  
Old September 25th 08, 05:44 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
bino
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 82
Default Infrared photography

"DaveC" wrote in message
obal.net...
I want to photograph and video in infrared mode.

I understand that some point-and-shoot cameras provide this style of
photography/videography. Alternately, some people have "hacked" a camera
by
removing the IR filter from in front of the imaging element. There are
instructions on-line to DIY this, or to send in your P&S to have it done.

Basically, the IR filter is removed and replaced with another (not a
procedure for the faint at heart). The replacement filter is $$$.

My question is this: is this replacement filter that passes rather than
blocks IR available as a gelatin or other commonly available filter that I
can source elsewhere other than from these camera-mod services?

Or can I just strip off the existing filter and not replace it with
anything?
I'm looking for quantitative data (the existence of IR) not qualitative
data
(a pretty picture). What function does the replacement filter provide
(other
than passing IR data)?

To clarify, I want to "see" IR images real-time in the viewfinder, not
post-process the image data to reveal the IR.

If there's another forum you suggest I should ask this question in, please
let me know.

Thanks,


The problem is that you won't see an IR picture per se, as the image
requires post processing to be anything but a dark red image. If your
camera has a B&W mode, that would be helpful, but the image will still
require post processing.

  #7  
Old September 25th 08, 09:31 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Infrared photography

In article , bino
wrote:

The problem is that you won't see an IR picture per se, as the image
requires post processing to be anything but a dark red image. If your
camera has a B&W mode, that would be helpful, but the image will still
require post processing.


false.
  #8  
Old September 25th 08, 10:46 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
bino
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 82
Default Infrared photography

"nospam" wrote in message
...
In article , bino
wrote:

The problem is that you won't see an IR picture per se, as the image
requires post processing to be anything but a dark red image. If your
camera has a B&W mode, that would be helpful, but the image will still
require post processing.


false.


You got some facts jackass? Experience? I've shot IR film and IR digital.
The red filter makes the color sensor see red. Period.

  #9  
Old September 25th 08, 11:12 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Infrared photography

In article , bino
wrote:

The problem is that you won't see an IR picture per se, as the image
requires post processing to be anything but a dark red image. If your
camera has a B&W mode, that would be helpful, but the image will still
require post processing.


false.


You got some facts jackass? Experience? I've shot IR film and IR digital.
The red filter makes the color sensor see red. Period.


except that the blue pixels also pass infrared light and depending on
the camera, the white balance, the strength of the infrared filter and
the raw processing, the results can be virtually anything.

i've used a couple of digital cameras for infrared and modified one of
them myself. none of them produce red images out of the camera. on
the camera's lcd screen and the jpegs they produce, the result is b/w.


if anything, there's a mild greenish cast, perhaps because the camera
is boosting green due to the weak response of the green pixels with
infrared light. the very same image when shot raw and processed via
adobe camera raw has an entirely different appearance than with nikon
or canon's software.

saying that it will always be red is simply false.
  #10  
Old September 26th 08, 05:27 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.point+shoot
[email protected]
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Posts: 220
Default Infrared photography

In rec.photo.digital bino wrote:
| "nospam" wrote in message
| ...
| In article , bino
| wrote:
|
| The problem is that you won't see an IR picture per se, as the image
| requires post processing to be anything but a dark red image. If your
| camera has a B&W mode, that would be helpful, but the image will still
| require post processing.
|
| false.
|
|
| You got some facts jackass? Experience? I've shot IR film and IR digital.
| The red filter makes the color sensor see red. Period.

Who said anything about a red filter ... in this thread?

Actually, I would recommend a IR-passing filter (e.g. type 89) on the lens
after the IR-blocking filter is removed. The sensor (with a replacement
all-passing filter to keep the optics consistent) will pick up IR in other
colors. This is because the color separation of the sensor is not designed
to discriminate IR (and hence why an IR-blocking filter needs to be added
in the normal case). The red channel will get the most IR. The blue channel
will get a lot. The green channel will get some. And these will vary by
what IR wavelength is involved. So you will get some false color effects.
Directly viewing the image on the camera screen will give some funny reddish
colors for sure. Post processing can then give you the effets you want if
you were using the correct lens-front filter to begin with (type 29 for some
effects, type 89 for others, and type 87 for yet others). In some cases the
desired effect is achieved by making everything monochrome. In other cases
the desired affect is a color product derived from adding or subtracting the
various color channels. Additionally, multiple shooting of a stationary
subject with different lens-front filters (the above plus 25, 23, 15, 12, and
none at all) can give you multi-channel info to even be able to derive the
original visual image unaffected by infrared (with the correct formula).

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