Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

On 2018-10-12 14:30, Neil wrote:

When an OS is 'broken', it will fail for ALL users. Vista, much like
Win8.x, instituted policies that were announced but not enforced in XP,
and MANY app developers ignored them (one being the elimination of apps'
access to discreet memory locations). As with Win10, Vista wasn't
'broken', and I still have a laptop running Vista that has never h

Vista was definitely broken when it came out. Utter disaster.

And no. It doesn't have to fail for all users. It has to fail in such
number as to cause people to lose a lot of time and money recovering
from them. And spinning it to be "MANY app developers" fault does not
cut it.

--
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants. Proof that we
need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
- unknown protester

In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote:

I know people that do not know how to copy files to/from an usb stick.

one need not know how to do that for backups to occur.

Ah? And how will that person do the backup? The backup has to go
somewhere. Or are you doing the backup to same disk?

automatic backups, without the user having to do anything special.

Yes yes yes. But you are not saying where are those automatic backups
stored.

either the cloud or an external hard drive. all the user needs to do is
enable backups, which is trivial.

They don't know what an external hard drive is, don't have one, and need
hours of training on how to use it. Similarly with the cloud, but even
worse because their internet is slow, and wifi is also slow.

there is no training. plug it in, click a button. done.

as for the cloud, it's not slow everywhere, and that only means the
backups take longer.

I get called by some people when they want to copy the photos from the
camera or phone to the computer (usually when the camera is full, or
want to share the photos or print them). Windows computers. I have to do
the purchasing for them of USB sticks or whatever.

windows is the wrong product for those people.

If I don't do the purchasing, they get sweet talked into contracting
expensive things they don't need and don't know how to activate and use.
I find out when called to activate those things.

salespeople prey on the uninformed no matter what product it is.

Similar problem if they want to send the photos to some one, but this
got solved by using a mobile phone instead of a camera, as they know how
to use gmail. Tap photo and send.

that's a major reason why mobile devices are so popular, and why a
tablet would be a much better choice than windows or macos for the
people described above.

I'm not talking of a single person, nor elderly people. Just ordinary
people, highly regarded professionals in their areas, but just able to
use a computer for the things they normally do. Any new thing needs new
training.

not true, and the more training it needs, the worse it's designed.

well designed products are intuitive and easy to use, with little to no
training needed.

Ah, and I found the router was using WEP at one place.

that's not as big of a deal as people make it out to be.

open wifi is prevalent enough and wep is enough of an obstacle that
it's not worth the trouble for moochers to bother cracking anything.

while it's true that wep can be cracked in seconds, unless someone is a
target, few will bother, and if they are a target, they have much
bigger problems.

A teacher told me of similar experiences with youths: they could do
anything with a smartphone or tablet, but had no idea of such basics as
what a file is. They can not handle a computer.

they *are* handling a computer, one which is more powerful than legacy
desktop computers, doing things once considered to be difficult to
impossible, all without needing to know about file systems or the rest
of the legacy crap.

In article , Neil
wrote:

Many people don't understand Win10 and keep treat it like it's an
updated version of XP. As a result they create most of the problems
they have for themselves and then whine about it on the internet. I've
used and supported several machines running Win10 for over 2-1/2 years
without a single problem on any of them because I saw what was coming
and how to manage it during the Windows 8.x years. So, even though
Win10 is my least favorite version of the OS, I can't say that it's
functionally any worse than earlier versions.

FWIW, there have been different "editions with different abilities and
limitations" since Windows 3.1, so that also isn't anything new.

I've never thought it was an updated v. of WinXP.* Far from it.

I jumped to Mac because of a fiasco called Vista.* Vista broke Windows
for me and for many.* (Linux proved to be a disaster for desktop use).

I hope I never have to rely on Windows ever again other than as VM'd
machines to support legacy s/w.* And that will of course have its day
too...

When an OS is 'broken', it will fail for ALL users.

not true.

windows 10 1809 was 'broken' enough to be *pulled* in a couple of days,
yet only 'failed' for 1/100th of 1%, according to microsoft, or one out
of 10,000 people.

the samsung galaxy note 7 was also broken even though not all of them
caught fire. however, enough of them did that it was a major safety
hazard, forcing samsung to recall them not once, but twice (they had no
idea why it was broken). despite that, some people liked the phone so
much that they refused to part with it, ultimately being bricked with a
firmware update because of the danger.

Vista, much like
Win8.x, instituted policies that were announced but not enforced in XP,
and MANY app developers ignored them (one being the elimination of apps'
access to discreet memory locations). As with Win10, Vista wasn't
'broken', and I still have a laptop running Vista that has never had a
problem. That doesn't mean that none will suffer problems, but, again,
it's not the OS.

yes it is the os.

older apps written for xp should have continued to work as before, with
*new* apps subject to the new rules.

if developers didn't bother updating their apps, then the only option
is to stay with xp or switch to another platform.

and that's exactly what happened. vista drove a *lot* of people to
macos, as did win8.

On 10/12/2018 2:38 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2018-10-12 14:30, Neil wrote:

When an OS is 'broken', it will fail for ALL users. Vista, much like
Win8.x, instituted policies that were announced but not enforced in
XP, and MANY app developers ignored them (one being the elimination of
apps' access to discreet memory locations). As with Win10, Vista
wasn't 'broken', and I still have a laptop running Vista that has never h

Vista was definitely broken when it came out.Â* Utter disaster.

None of my Vista machines had problems, though some "legacy" apps such
as those that relied on discreet memory locations did. So, what was
broken according to you?

And no.Â* It doesn't have to fail for all users.Â* It has to fail in such
number as to cause people to lose a lot of time and money recovering
from them.Â* And spinning it to be "MANY app developers" fault does not
cut it.

You're suggesting that users aren't at fault for the problems they
experience, which is pretty much the opposite of my experience with any
computer system/OS over the last 50 years.

--
best regards,

Neil

On 2018-10-12 15:58, Neil wrote:
On 10/12/2018 2:38 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2018-10-12 14:30, Neil wrote:

When an OS is 'broken', it will fail for ALL users. Vista, much like
Win8.x, instituted policies that were announced but not enforced in
XP, and MANY app developers ignored them (one being the elimination
of apps' access to discreet memory locations). As with Win10, Vista
wasn't 'broken', and I still have a laptop running Vista that has
never h

Vista was definitely broken when it came out.Â* Utter disaster.

None of my Vista machines had problems, though some "legacy" apps such
as those that relied on discreet memory locations did. So, what was
broken according to you?

Too long ago for details but the issues of the day were related to
various drivers for various things. Could not rely on that and keep
working.

And no.Â* It doesn't have to fail for all users.Â* It has to fail in
such number as to cause people to lose a lot of time and money
recovering from them.Â* And spinning it to be "MANY app developers"
fault does not cut it.

You're suggesting that users aren't at fault for the problems they
experience, which is pretty much the opposite of my experience with any
computer system/OS over the last 50 years.

When it comes to Windows the faults of Windows have always been the
faults of Windows. And they are legion!

I've used dozens of OS' myself and none has caused me the pain of
Windows. Hours and days lost on trivial crap.

Windows is **** on users. Even knowledgeable users waste hours and days
maintaining and fixing it. The most reliable and stable OS I've ever
used is Mac OS. Not perfect put miles above the ****pile of Windows.

--
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants. Proof that we
need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
- unknown protester

In article , Alan Browne
wrote:

I've used dozens of OS' myself and none has caused me the pain of
Windows. Hours and days lost on trivial crap.

Windows is **** on users. Even knowledgeable users waste hours and days
maintaining and fixing it.

worse, they think that's the norm and make excuses for it.

most windows users have little to no experience with other systems to
realize that it's *not* the norm.

The most reliable and stable OS I've ever
used is Mac OS. Not perfect put miles above the ****pile of Windows.

agreed, as are the vast majority of mac apps.

On 2018-10-12 16:39, nospam wrote:
In article , Alan Browne
wrote:

I've used dozens of OS' myself and none has caused me the pain of
Windows. Hours and days lost on trivial crap.

Windows is **** on users. Even knowledgeable users waste hours and days
maintaining and fixing it.

worse, they think that's the norm and make excuses for it.

most windows users have little to no experience with other systems to
realize that it's *not* the norm.

The most reliable and stable OS I've ever
used is Mac OS. Not perfect put miles above the ****pile of Windows.

agreed, as are the vast majority of mac apps.

MS Word and Excel are miles above Apple's offerings (with one exception)
Can't speak about Powerpoint as I've never used Keynote.


--
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants. Proof that we
need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
- unknown protester

In article , Alan Browne
wrote:

The most reliable and stable OS I've ever
used is Mac OS. Not perfect put miles above the ****pile of Windows.

agreed, as are the vast majority of mac apps.

MS Word and Excel are miles above Apple's offerings (with one exception)
Can't speak about Powerpoint as I've never used Keynote.

i wasn't talking specifically about those, however, apple's pages and
numbers were never intended to be replacements for word/excel. they're
designed for average users doing common tasks, whereas word/excel tries
to be everything for everyone, and harder to use as a result.

keynote was originally designed specifically for steve jobs because
powerpoint couldn't do what he wanted to do, without being overly
complex.

On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 15:21:14 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote:

I know people that do not know how to copy files to/from an usb stick.

one need not know how to do that for backups to occur.

Ah? And how will that person do the backup? The backup has to go
somewhere. Or are you doing the backup to same disk?

automatic backups, without the user having to do anything special.

Yes yes yes. But you are not saying where are those automatic backups
stored.

either the cloud or an external hard drive. all the user needs to do is
enable backups, which is trivial.

They don't know what an external hard drive is, don't have one, and need
hours of training on how to use it. Similarly with the cloud, but even
worse because their internet is slow, and wifi is also slow.

there is no training. plug it in, click a button. done.

My sister has used Apple computers for many many years. I sent her a
batch of photographs (JPG) on a USB stick and despite seeking help
from her neighbours she never managed to view the photographs. In the
beginning she had not the faintest idea of what to do with the USB
stick. I am sure she is not alone.

as for the cloud, it's not slow everywhere, and that only means the
backups take longer.

I get called by some people when they want to copy the photos from the
camera or phone to the computer (usually when the camera is full, or
want to share the photos or print them). Windows computers. I have to do
the purchasing for them of USB sticks or whatever.

windows is the wrong product for those people.

If I don't do the purchasing, they get sweet talked into contracting
expensive things they don't need and don't know how to activate and use.
I find out when called to activate those things.

salespeople prey on the uninformed no matter what product it is.

Similar problem if they want to send the photos to some one, but this
got solved by using a mobile phone instead of a camera, as they know how
to use gmail. Tap photo and send.

that's a major reason why mobile devices are so popular, and why a
tablet would be a much better choice than windows or macos for the
people described above.

I'm not talking of a single person, nor elderly people. Just ordinary
people, highly regarded professionals in their areas, but just able to
use a computer for the things they normally do. Any new thing needs new
training.

not true, and the more training it needs, the worse it's designed.

well designed products are intuitive and easy to use, with little to no
training needed.

Ah, and I found the router was using WEP at one place.

that's not as big of a deal as people make it out to be.

open wifi is prevalent enough and wep is enough of an obstacle that
it's not worth the trouble for moochers to bother cracking anything.

while it's true that wep can be cracked in seconds, unless someone is a
target, few will bother, and if they are a target, they have much
bigger problems.

A teacher told me of similar experiences with youths: they could do
anything with a smartphone or tablet, but had no idea of such basics as
what a file is. They can not handle a computer.

they *are* handling a computer, one which is more powerful than legacy
desktop computers, doing things once considered to be difficult to
impossible, all without needing to know about file systems or the rest
of the legacy crap.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I know people that do not know how to copy files to/from an usb
stick.

one need not know how to do that for backups to occur.

Ah? And how will that person do the backup? The backup has to go
somewhere. Or are you doing the backup to same disk?

automatic backups, without the user having to do anything special.

Yes yes yes. But you are not saying where are those automatic backups
stored.

either the cloud or an external hard drive. all the user needs to do is
enable backups, which is trivial.

They don't know what an external hard drive is, don't have one, and need
hours of training on how to use it. Similarly with the cloud, but even
worse because their internet is slow, and wifi is also slow.

there is no training. plug it in, click a button. done.

My sister has used Apple computers for many many years. I sent her a
batch of photographs (JPG) on a USB stick and despite seeking help
from her neighbours she never managed to view the photographs. In the
beginning she had not the faintest idea of what to do with the USB
stick. I am sure she is not alone.

that has nothing to do with backups, the topic under discussion.

however, it does further the point that people incorrectly assume
computers are hard to use, which requires technical skills and
extensive training.

you should also have known that your own sister would not know what to
do with a usb stick. why even send her one in the first place?

the easiest solution would have been to use photo sharing, then the
photos would have appeared on her devices without her needing to do
anything special, including an apple tv if she has one.

another option would have been to email or text the photos, or upload
them to a photo sharing site and then send her the links. it's not as
simple or as elegant, but it would have worked.