Need stabilization advice

When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things
wiggling around in the display as I try to focus. I have to shoot
1/200s or faster to get a decent picture. I need some advice for better
stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a
Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight
than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I should
be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of the
tripod only helps a little.

My camera is an Olympus OM-D µ4/3 format, so I suppose part of my
problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame
camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech
support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and
of course I have no mirror slap. What else am I missing? Is the
standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent)
telephoto work?

--
Please reply to: | No nation is drunken where wine is cheap.
pciszek at panix dot com | --Thomas Jefferson

In article ,
(Paul Ciszek) wrote:

When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things
wiggling around in the display as I try to focus. I have to shoot
1/200s or faster to get a decent picture. I need some advice for better
stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a
Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight
than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I should
be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of the
tripod only helps a little.

My camera is an Olympus OM-D µ4/3 format, so I suppose part of my
problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame
camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech
support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and
of course I have no mirror slap. What else am I missing? Is the
standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent)
telephoto work?

I'm not familiar with that tripod, but I've heard these pads are highly
regarded by amateur astronomers:

http://www.celestron.com/astronomy/c...suppression-pa
ds.html

On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:20:26 +0000 (UTC), (Paul
Ciszek) wrote:

When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things
wiggling around in the display as I try to focus. I have to shoot
1/200s or faster to get a decent picture. I need some advice for better
stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a
Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight
than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I should
be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of the
tripod only helps a little.

My camera is an Olympus OM-D µ4/3 format, so I suppose part of my
problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame
camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech
support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and
of course I have no mirror slap. What else am I missing? Is the
standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent)
telephoto work?

What I have seen done is the draping of a suitably weighted sand bag
over the lens. This effectively becomes mechanically coupled to the
lens and makes it that much harder to shake. In particular it slows
down the natural frequency of vibration of the camera on the tripod.

Hanging a weight on the tripod doesn't have the same effect as it
isn't mechanically coupled nearly as well as a sand bag draped over
the camera.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 2012.11.15 16:33 , Eric Stevens wrote:

What I have seen done is the draping of a suitably weighted sand bag
over the lens. This effectively becomes mechanically coupled to the
lens and makes it that much harder to shake. In particular it slows
down the natural frequency of vibration of the camera on the tripod.

Heavy does not = less vibration.

it does = different vibration.

Resonance can be increased by adding a weight to the lens as well. It
could change the frequency of the resonance or just its amplitude - but
likely both. Without attaching accelerometers to the lens barrel and
observing with an oscilloscope there's no telling what you've actually
done to the system.

--
"There were, unfortunately, no great principles on which parties
were divided – politics became a mere struggle for office."
-Sir John A. Macdonald

On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:20:26 +0000, Paul Ciszek wrote:

When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things
wiggling around in the display as I try to focus. I have to shoot
1/200s or faster to get a decent picture. I need some advice for better
stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a
Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight
than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I should
be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of the
tripod only helps a little.

My camera is an Olympus OM-D µ4/3 format, so I suppose part of my
problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame
camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech
support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and
of course I have no mirror slap. What else am I missing? Is the
standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent)
telephoto work?

Do you use a remote shutter release?

rOn Thu, 15 Nov 2012 17:15:11 -0500, Alan Browne
wrote:

On 2012.11.15 16:33 , Eric Stevens wrote:

What I have seen done is the draping of a suitably weighted sand bag
over the lens. This effectively becomes mechanically coupled to the
lens and makes it that much harder to shake. In particular it slows
down the natural frequency of vibration of the camera on the tripod.

Heavy does not = less vibration.

it does = different vibration.

As I said, (in this case) heavier means a lower natural vibration
frequency of the camera on the (elastic) tripod.. This places the
natural frequency of the shutter an mirror disturbance further awy
from the natural frequency of the camera and tripod. Consequently the
camera moves less during the exposure period.

Resonance can be increased by adding a weight to the lens as well. It
could change the frequency of the resonance or just its amplitude - but
likely both. Without attaching accelerometers to the lens barrel and
observing with an oscilloscope there's no telling what you've actually
done to the system.

Arithmetic will tell you a fair bit if you know your way around the
mathematics.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

"ray" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:20:26 +0000, Paul Ciszek wrote:

When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see
things
wiggling around in the display as I try to focus. I have to shoot
1/200s or faster to get a decent picture. I need some advice for
better
stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a
Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight
than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I
should
be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of
the
tripod only helps a little.

My camera is an Olympus OM-D µ4/3 format, so I suppose part of my
problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full
frame
camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech
support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion,
and
of course I have no mirror slap. What else am I missing? Is the
standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm
(equivalent)
telephoto work?

Do you use a remote shutter release?

Do you hang a weight from the tripod head? Many tripods have hooks for
that purpose, and rather than haul a weight around I use my camera bag.

--
Frank ess

On 2012.11.15 17:38 , Eric Stevens wrote:
rOn Thu, 15 Nov 2012 17:15:11 -0500, Alan Browne
wrote:

On 2012.11.15 16:33 , Eric Stevens wrote:

What I have seen done is the draping of a suitably weighted sand bag
over the lens. This effectively becomes mechanically coupled to the
lens and makes it that much harder to shake. In particular it slows
down the natural frequency of vibration of the camera on the tripod.

Heavy does not = less vibration.

it does = different vibration.

As I said, (in this case) heavier means a lower natural vibration
frequency of the camera on the (elastic) tripod.. This places the
natural frequency of the shutter an mirror disturbance further awy
from the natural frequency of the camera and tripod. Consequently the
camera moves less during the exposure period.

Resonance can be increased by adding a weight to the lens as well. It
could change the frequency of the resonance or just its amplitude - but
likely both. Without attaching accelerometers to the lens barrel and
observing with an oscilloscope there's no telling what you've actually
done to the system.

Arithmetic will tell you a fair bit if you know your way around the
mathematics.

Case 1. For a freely vibrating system, mass has no effect on frequency
at all - the natural frequency is what it is. (Think of a pendulum - it
is the length that matters, not the mass on it).

So adding mass to the part that is moving won't solve the problem at all.

Case 2. If the system is represented by "tension" (tortion) then
increasing mass will decrease the frequency - but not ever eliminate it.
There is no reasonable case with cameras for increased mass to have a
useful effect on a long exposure (astrophotography). You can have high
frequency blur or low frequency blur, but you will have blur.

The "bag over the camera" (or lens) is probably some mix of the two
cases. But that just makes the math sexier, not eliminate (or
practically enough) reduce the vibration.

Thus, you're better to add mass to the support system underneath to at
least make it more stable so that vibration is not _induced_. (This is
why some tripods have hooks at the bottom of the center column).

And of course use a shutter release and mirror lock up or mirror/shutter
delay.

--
"There were, unfortunately, no great principles on which parties
were divided – politics became a mere struggle for office."
-Sir John A. Macdonald

Paul Ciszek wrote:

When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things
wiggling around in the display as I try to focus.

Your use of the phrase "things wiggling around in the display" rather
than the entire dispaly wiggling suggests that what you may be seeing
is the wirggling of atmospheric thermal turbulense, a bit problem at
these focal lengths. There's nothing you can do about that except
choose better atmosphetic conditions. If your shutter speed is too
slow it will cause blur, if high enough straight edges will be
slightly wavy rather than straight.

I have to shoot
1/200s or faster to get a decent picture.

That's in the right region for escaping from shutter-induced
vibration.

I need some advice for better
stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a
Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight
than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I should
be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of the
tripod only helps a little.

My camera is an Olympus OM-D µ4/3 format, so I suppose part of my
problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame
camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech
support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and
of course I have no mirror slap.

What's anti-shock and how doe it avoid the effects of shutter motion?

What else am I missing? Is the
standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent)
telephoto work?

Fasten a laster pointer to your camera and aim it at a distant
wall. Tap the lens. See the vibration in the red dot? A solid granite
tripod might help a little, but most of the problems you're seeing are
partly in the compliance in the camera tripod mount, and partly in the
camera itself. For example, if IBIS can move the sensor, then the
sensor can move relative to the camera body.

But a massless electronic first curtain to the shutter...

--
Chris Malcolm

On 11/15/2012 7:15 PM, Frank S wrote:

"ray" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:20:26 +0000, Paul Ciszek wrote:

When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things
wiggling around in the display as I try to focus. I have to shoot
1/200s or faster to get a decent picture. I need some advice for better
stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a
Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight
than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I should
be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of the
tripod only helps a little.

My camera is an Olympus OM-D µ4/3 format, so I suppose part of my
problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame
camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech
support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and
of course I have no mirror slap. What else am I missing? Is the
standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent)
telephoto work?

Do you use a remote shutter release?

Do you hang a weight from the tripod head? Many tripods have hooks for
that purpose, and rather than haul a weight around I use my camera bag.


That seems to work. Since I don't carry a bag, just a vest , I use a
handy rock, suspended with bungee cords. But, that only works when the
lens is mounted on the tripod.
--
Peter