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#1
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Epson LUT print technology
I have previously written that the instructions for Epson Sure Color
P-800 recommend that with Photoshoop CS3 or later, All LR and also PS Elements 6 or later - the printer should manage colours. I have confirmed that with CC LR having the printer manage colors gives a vastly superior result when using Epson Premium Glossy paper. I may now have discovered why this should be. Epson in conjunction with the Rochester Institute of Technology have taken color management to new levels. The problem appears to be that while with 8 colors there are a zillion ways to blend them to achieve a particular color there is only one best way. Apparently the mathematics are complicated but are vastly simplified by use of a massive Look Up Table (LUT). Presumably all this is built into the driver. Down loading the driver results in about a dozen ICC paper profiles being installed in Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color but these can only be used with LR and the like. They cannot be loaded into the driver which reports that they are incompatible (or some such). My suspicion is that the LUT is available only when the printer manages colors. I don't know why this should be but that's what it seems to be. Apparently Epson's larger printers have been using this for a while and it is now moving to smaller models. http://factor.bg/epson/SP9900/Maximu...r_fidelity.pdf is a blurb which doesn't really tell you much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egLCg3GiXIE is also a blurb but gives more information. Whatever the explanation I am banging my head on the wall waiting with great impatience for a version of the driver which incorporates the profile for Archival Matte paper. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#2
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Epson LUT print technology
On 10/16/2015 11:04 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
I have previously written that the instructions for Epson Sure Color P-800 recommend that with Photoshoop CS3 or later, All LR and also PS Elements 6 or later - the printer should manage colours. I have confirmed that with CC LR having the printer manage colors gives a vastly superior result when using Epson Premium Glossy paper. I may now have discovered why this should be. Epson in conjunction with the Rochester Institute of Technology have taken color management to new levels. The problem appears to be that while with 8 colors there are a zillion ways to blend them to achieve a particular color there is only one best way. Apparently the mathematics are complicated but are vastly simplified by use of a massive Look Up Table (LUT). Presumably all this is built into the driver. Down loading the driver results in about a dozen ICC paper profiles being installed in Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color but these can only be used with LR and the like. They cannot be loaded into the driver which reports that they are incompatible (or some such). My suspicion is that the LUT is available only when the printer manages colors. I don't know why this should be but that's what it seems to be. Apparently Epson's larger printers have been using this for a while and it is now moving to smaller models. http://factor.bg/epson/SP9900/Maximu...r_fidelity.pdf is a blurb which doesn't really tell you much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egLCg3GiXIE is also a blurb but gives more information. Whatever the explanation I am banging my head on the wall waiting with great impatience for a version of the driver which incorporates the profile for Archival Matte paper. sounds a little like color rendering dictionaries (CRD) with Adobe postscript level 2 does the printer driver pull an input profile to use with the output LUT or does it just assume something like sRGB? -- Dale http://www.dalekelly.org |
#3
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Epson LUT print technology
On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 13:30:37 -0400, Dale wrote:
On 10/16/2015 11:04 PM, Eric Stevens wrote: I have previously written that the instructions for Epson Sure Color P-800 recommend that with Photoshoop CS3 or later, All LR and also PS Elements 6 or later - the printer should manage colours. I have confirmed that with CC LR having the printer manage colors gives a vastly superior result when using Epson Premium Glossy paper. I may now have discovered why this should be. Epson in conjunction with the Rochester Institute of Technology have taken color management to new levels. The problem appears to be that while with 8 colors there are a zillion ways to blend them to achieve a particular color there is only one best way. Apparently the mathematics are complicated but are vastly simplified by use of a massive Look Up Table (LUT). Presumably all this is built into the driver. Down loading the driver results in about a dozen ICC paper profiles being installed in Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color but these can only be used with LR and the like. They cannot be loaded into the driver which reports that they are incompatible (or some such). My suspicion is that the LUT is available only when the printer manages colors. I don't know why this should be but that's what it seems to be. Apparently Epson's larger printers have been using this for a while and it is now moving to smaller models. http://factor.bg/epson/SP9900/Maximu...r_fidelity.pdf is a blurb which doesn't really tell you much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egLCg3GiXIE is also a blurb but gives more information. Whatever the explanation I am banging my head on the wall waiting with great impatience for a version of the driver which incorporates the profile for Archival Matte paper. sounds a little like color rendering dictionaries (CRD) with Adobe postscript level 2 does the printer driver pull an input profile to use with the output LUT or does it just assume something like sRGB? Epson asks that you use sRGB in the image. You can use AdobeRGB but the driver will convert it to sRGB. If the video is anything to go by, the driver will then inflate parts of the sRGB gamut to fit the the printer's gamut. If that is correct the printer's gamut exceeds sRGB. I would to check on that before really believing it. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#4
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Epson LUT print technology
On 17/10/2015 16:04, Eric Stevens wrote:
I have previously written that the instructions for Epson Sure Color P-800 recommend that with Photoshoop CS3 or later, All LR and also PS Elements 6 or later - the printer should manage colours. I have confirmed that with CC LR having the printer manage colors gives a vastly superior result when using Epson Premium Glossy paper. I may now have discovered why this should be. Epson in conjunction with the Rochester Institute of Technology have taken color management to new levels. The problem appears to be that while with 8 colors there are a zillion ways to blend them to achieve a particular color there is only one best way. Apparently the mathematics are complicated but are vastly simplified by use of a massive Look Up Table (LUT). Presumably all this is built into the driver. Down loading the driver results in about a dozen ICC paper profiles being installed in Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color but these can only be used with LR and the like. They cannot be loaded into the driver which reports that they are incompatible (or some such). My suspicion is that the LUT is available only when the printer manages colors. I don't know why this should be but that's what it seems to be. Apparently Epson's larger printers have been using this for a while and it is now moving to smaller models. http://factor.bg/epson/SP9900/Maximu...r_fidelity.pdf is a blurb which doesn't really tell you much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egLCg3GiXIE is also a blurb but gives more information. Whatever the explanation I am banging my head on the wall waiting with great impatience for a version of the driver which incorporates the profile for Archival Matte paper. I suspect that your observation may be the result of a mistake somewhere. The photo you posted the other day of flower in a vase, I was going to comment on. I didn't see any issue with it viewed on screen, and it was also totally within gamut (R3880) on gloss/pearl papers. I viewed the photo on a large TV with laptop connected, yet that had no problem displaying the colours without any obvious posterisation or other issues. I didn't look on my calibrated system. I'm confident it would print fine using "printer manages colour" and default settings for Epson paper stock. But a problem exists if using non Epson paper... Probably not too bad in some cases though, as for example, I've printed using "printer manages colour" with Ilford papers and Epson settings for similar papers, and the result is probably close enough for most people. However on matte papers, it's a different story, some of the reds were definitely out of gamut. Sure - you could try it out and see, but I'll stick with soft-proofing and adjustment and a colour managed print process to ensure that I get WYSIWYG screenrint matches - rather than a lottery. I guess with Epson matte/fine art papers, those adjustments to avoid out of gamut and to tweak colour could be used by editing while soft-proofing, then send to the printer and allow the printer to manage colour. With non-epson papers or custom profiles - then no, it won't work. |
#5
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Epson LUT print technology
On 18/10/2015 09:42, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 13:30:37 -0400, Dale wrote: On 10/16/2015 11:04 PM, Eric Stevens wrote: I have previously written that the instructions for Epson Sure Color P-800 recommend that with Photoshoop CS3 or later, All LR and also PS Elements 6 or later - the printer should manage colours. I have confirmed that with CC LR having the printer manage colors gives a vastly superior result when using Epson Premium Glossy paper. I may now have discovered why this should be. Epson in conjunction with the Rochester Institute of Technology have taken color management to new levels. The problem appears to be that while with 8 colors there are a zillion ways to blend them to achieve a particular color there is only one best way. Apparently the mathematics are complicated but are vastly simplified by use of a massive Look Up Table (LUT). Presumably all this is built into the driver. Down loading the driver results in about a dozen ICC paper profiles being installed in Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color but these can only be used with LR and the like. They cannot be loaded into the driver which reports that they are incompatible (or some such). My suspicion is that the LUT is available only when the printer manages colors. I don't know why this should be but that's what it seems to be. Apparently Epson's larger printers have been using this for a while and it is now moving to smaller models. http://factor.bg/epson/SP9900/Maximu...r_fidelity.pdf is a blurb which doesn't really tell you much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egLCg3GiXIE is also a blurb but gives more information. Whatever the explanation I am banging my head on the wall waiting with great impatience for a version of the driver which incorporates the profile for Archival Matte paper. sounds a little like color rendering dictionaries (CRD) with Adobe postscript level 2 does the printer driver pull an input profile to use with the output LUT or does it just assume something like sRGB? Epson asks that you use sRGB in the image. You can use AdobeRGB but the driver will convert it to sRGB. If the video is anything to go by, the driver will then inflate parts of the sRGB gamut to fit the the printer's gamut. If that is correct the printer's gamut exceeds sRGB. I would to check on that before really believing it. They (Epson printers) will exceed sRGB, but only for "peaks" in the spectrum corresponding with the primary colours for the inks. With subtractive colour, then the intermediate colours fall below sRGB. You can check that yourself - download an 8 bit sRGB test image in PNG format which displays the entire sRGB spectrum, then turn on "gamut warning" in photoshop with selected profiles for various papers. Load a matte paper profile, and it's surprising how much is out of gamut. From my experience trying to print "real photos" which are heavily saturated and aRGB, by the time they're adjusted back to being within gamut across the entire frame, may as well have just stuck with sRGB unless you want to selectively adjust areas of the photo so that vibrant sRGB colours are retained. |
#6
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Epson LUT print technology
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 11:26:59 +1300, Me wrote:
On 18/10/2015 09:42, Eric Stevens wrote: On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 13:30:37 -0400, Dale wrote: On 10/16/2015 11:04 PM, Eric Stevens wrote: I have previously written that the instructions for Epson Sure Color P-800 recommend that with Photoshoop CS3 or later, All LR and also PS Elements 6 or later - the printer should manage colours. I have confirmed that with CC LR having the printer manage colors gives a vastly superior result when using Epson Premium Glossy paper. I may now have discovered why this should be. Epson in conjunction with the Rochester Institute of Technology have taken color management to new levels. The problem appears to be that while with 8 colors there are a zillion ways to blend them to achieve a particular color there is only one best way. Apparently the mathematics are complicated but are vastly simplified by use of a massive Look Up Table (LUT). Presumably all this is built into the driver. Down loading the driver results in about a dozen ICC paper profiles being installed in Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color but these can only be used with LR and the like. They cannot be loaded into the driver which reports that they are incompatible (or some such). My suspicion is that the LUT is available only when the printer manages colors. I don't know why this should be but that's what it seems to be. Apparently Epson's larger printers have been using this for a while and it is now moving to smaller models. http://factor.bg/epson/SP9900/Maximu...r_fidelity.pdf is a blurb which doesn't really tell you much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egLCg3GiXIE is also a blurb but gives more information. Whatever the explanation I am banging my head on the wall waiting with great impatience for a version of the driver which incorporates the profile for Archival Matte paper. sounds a little like color rendering dictionaries (CRD) with Adobe postscript level 2 does the printer driver pull an input profile to use with the output LUT or does it just assume something like sRGB? Epson asks that you use sRGB in the image. You can use AdobeRGB but the driver will convert it to sRGB. If the video is anything to go by, the driver will then inflate parts of the sRGB gamut to fit the the printer's gamut. If that is correct the printer's gamut exceeds sRGB. I would to check on that before really believing it. They (Epson printers) will exceed sRGB, but only for "peaks" in the spectrum corresponding with the primary colours for the inks. With subtractive colour, then the intermediate colours fall below sRGB. You can check that yourself - download an 8 bit sRGB test image in PNG format which displays the entire sRGB spectrum, then turn on "gamut warning" in photoshop with selected profiles for various papers. Load a matte paper profile, and it's surprising how much is out of gamut. From my experience trying to print "real photos" which are heavily saturated and aRGB, by the time they're adjusted back to being within gamut across the entire frame, may as well have just stuck with sRGB unless you want to selectively adjust areas of the photo so that vibrant sRGB colours are retained. If I have understood your last sentence correctly, this is what the Epson driver does. It converts the sRGB image to the printer-paper profile and even alows you to nominate your 'intent' for the process. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#7
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Epson LUT print technology
On 2015-10-17 22:16:47 +0000, Me said:
On 17/10/2015 16:04, Eric Stevens wrote: I have previously written that the instructions for Epson Sure Color P-800 recommend that with Photoshoop CS3 or later, All LR and also PS Elements 6 or later - the printer should manage colours. I have confirmed that with CC LR having the printer manage colors gives a vastly superior result when using Epson Premium Glossy paper. I may now have discovered why this should be. Epson in conjunction with the Rochester Institute of Technology have taken color management to new levels. The problem appears to be that while with 8 colors there are a zillion ways to blend them to achieve a particular color there is only one best way. Apparently the mathematics are complicated but are vastly simplified by use of a massive Look Up Table (LUT). Presumably all this is built into the driver. Down loading the driver results in about a dozen ICC paper profiles being installed in Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color but these can only be used with LR and the like. They cannot be loaded into the driver which reports that they are incompatible (or some such). My suspicion is that the LUT is available only when the printer manages colors. I don't know why this should be but that's what it seems to be. Apparently Epson's larger printers have been using this for a while and it is now moving to smaller models. http://factor.bg/epson/SP9900/Maximu...r_fidelity.pdf is a blurb which doesn't really tell you much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egLCg3GiXIE is also a blurb but gives more information. Whatever the explanation I am banging my head on the wall waiting with great impatience for a version of the driver which incorporates the profile for Archival Matte paper. I suspect that your observation may be the result of a mistake somewhere. The photo you posted the other day of flower in a vase, I was going to comment on. I didn't see any issue with it viewed on screen, and it was also totally within gamut (R3880) on gloss/pearl papers. I viewed the photo on a large TV with laptop connected, yet that had no problem displaying the colours without any obvious posterisation or other issues. I didn't look on my calibrated system. I'm confident it would print fine using "printer manages colour" and default settings for Epson paper stock. But a problem exists if using non Epson paper... Probably not too bad in some cases though, as for example, I've printed using "printer manages colour" with Ilford papers and Epson settings for similar papers, and the result is probably close enough for most people. However on matte papers, it's a different story, some of the reds were definitely out of gamut. Sure - you could try it out and see, but I'll stick with soft-proofing and adjustment and a colour managed print process to ensure that I get WYSIWYG screenrint matches - rather than a lottery. I guess with Epson matte/fine art papers, those adjustments to avoid out of gamut and to tweak colour could be used by editing while soft-proofing, then send to the printer and allow the printer to manage colour. With non-epson papers or custom profiles - then no, it won't work. Ilford has icc profiles for their papers and most printers. http://www.ilford.com/printer-profile-list -- Regards, Savageduck |
#8
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Epson LUT print technology
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 11:16:47 +1300, Me wrote:
On 17/10/2015 16:04, Eric Stevens wrote: I have previously written that the instructions for Epson Sure Color P-800 recommend that with Photoshoop CS3 or later, All LR and also PS Elements 6 or later - the printer should manage colours. I have confirmed that with CC LR having the printer manage colors gives a vastly superior result when using Epson Premium Glossy paper. I may now have discovered why this should be. Epson in conjunction with the Rochester Institute of Technology have taken color management to new levels. The problem appears to be that while with 8 colors there are a zillion ways to blend them to achieve a particular color there is only one best way. Apparently the mathematics are complicated but are vastly simplified by use of a massive Look Up Table (LUT). Presumably all this is built into the driver. Down loading the driver results in about a dozen ICC paper profiles being installed in Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color but these can only be used with LR and the like. They cannot be loaded into the driver which reports that they are incompatible (or some such). My suspicion is that the LUT is available only when the printer manages colors. I don't know why this should be but that's what it seems to be. Apparently Epson's larger printers have been using this for a while and it is now moving to smaller models. http://factor.bg/epson/SP9900/Maximu...r_fidelity.pdf is a blurb which doesn't really tell you much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egLCg3GiXIE is also a blurb but gives more information. Whatever the explanation I am banging my head on the wall waiting with great impatience for a version of the driver which incorporates the profile for Archival Matte paper. I suspect that your observation may be the result of a mistake somewhere. The photo you posted the other day of flower in a vase, I was going to comment on. I didn't see any issue with it viewed on screen, and it was also totally within gamut (R3880) on gloss/pearl papers. I viewed the photo on a large TV with laptop connected, yet that had no problem displaying the colours without any obvious posterisation or other issues. I didn't look on my calibrated system. I'm confident it would print fine using "printer manages colour" and default settings for Epson paper stock. It certainly does! Here is a crop from the original JPG compared with the same section of the image as scanned by my Epson 700. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...%20compare.jpg You will see that having the printer manage the colours (Epson Premium Glossy Paper A4 size) is a significant improvement over having LR manage the colours. You will see from this why I am waiting with extreme impatience for Epson to add to the range of paper profiles built into the driver. But a problem exists if using non Epson paper... Probably not too bad in some cases though, as for example, I've printed using "printer manages colour" with Ilford papers and Epson settings for similar papers, and the result is probably close enough for most people. However on matte papers, it's a different story, some of the reds were definitely out of gamut. Sure - you could try it out and see, but I'll stick with soft-proofing and adjustment and a colour managed print process to ensure that I get WYSIWYG screenrint matches - rather than a lottery. I guess with Epson matte/fine art papers, those adjustments to avoid out of gamut and to tweak colour could be used by editing while soft-proofing, then send to the printer and allow the printer to manage colour. With non-epson papers or custom profiles - then no, it won't work. As far as I can see it will only work with the printer managing the colours as long as there is a profile *built_into_the_driver* which suits the paper. It needn't be a profile specifically for the paper but only a profile which suits the paper. That already happens with some other non-Epson papers. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#9
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Epson LUT print technology
On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 16:24:08 -0700, Savageduck
wrote: On 2015-10-17 22:16:47 +0000, Me said: On 17/10/2015 16:04, Eric Stevens wrote: I have previously written that the instructions for Epson Sure Color P-800 recommend that with Photoshoop CS3 or later, All LR and also PS Elements 6 or later - the printer should manage colours. I have confirmed that with CC LR having the printer manage colors gives a vastly superior result when using Epson Premium Glossy paper. I may now have discovered why this should be. Epson in conjunction with the Rochester Institute of Technology have taken color management to new levels. The problem appears to be that while with 8 colors there are a zillion ways to blend them to achieve a particular color there is only one best way. Apparently the mathematics are complicated but are vastly simplified by use of a massive Look Up Table (LUT). Presumably all this is built into the driver. Down loading the driver results in about a dozen ICC paper profiles being installed in Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color but these can only be used with LR and the like. They cannot be loaded into the driver which reports that they are incompatible (or some such). My suspicion is that the LUT is available only when the printer manages colors. I don't know why this should be but that's what it seems to be. Apparently Epson's larger printers have been using this for a while and it is now moving to smaller models. http://factor.bg/epson/SP9900/Maximu...r_fidelity.pdf is a blurb which doesn't really tell you much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egLCg3GiXIE is also a blurb but gives more information. Whatever the explanation I am banging my head on the wall waiting with great impatience for a version of the driver which incorporates the profile for Archival Matte paper. I suspect that your observation may be the result of a mistake somewhere. The photo you posted the other day of flower in a vase, I was going to comment on. I didn't see any issue with it viewed on screen, and it was also totally within gamut (R3880) on gloss/pearl papers. I viewed the photo on a large TV with laptop connected, yet that had no problem displaying the colours without any obvious posterisation or other issues. I didn't look on my calibrated system. I'm confident it would print fine using "printer manages colour" and default settings for Epson paper stock. But a problem exists if using non Epson paper... Probably not too bad in some cases though, as for example, I've printed using "printer manages colour" with Ilford papers and Epson settings for similar papers, and the result is probably close enough for most people. However on matte papers, it's a different story, some of the reds were definitely out of gamut. Sure - you could try it out and see, but I'll stick with soft-proofing and adjustment and a colour managed print process to ensure that I get WYSIWYG screenrint matches - rather than a lottery. I guess with Epson matte/fine art papers, those adjustments to avoid out of gamut and to tweak colour could be used by editing while soft-proofing, then send to the printer and allow the printer to manage colour. With non-epson papers or custom profiles - then no, it won't work. Ilford has icc profiles for their papers and most printers. http://www.ilford.com/printer-profile-list I would be suprised if they have one for the Epson LUT technology. I suspect Epson may be reluctant to let others use it. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#10
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Epson LUT print technology
Eric Stevens wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 16:24:08 -0700, Savageduck wrote: On 2015-10-17 22:16:47 +0000, Me said: On 17/10/2015 16:04, Eric Stevens wrote: I have previously written that the instructions for Epson Sure Color P-800 recommend that with Photoshoop CS3 or later, All LR and also PS Elements 6 or later - the printer should manage colours. I have confirmed that with CC LR having the printer manage colors gives a vastly superior result when using Epson Premium Glossy paper. I may now have discovered why this should be. Epson in conjunction with the Rochester Institute of Technology have taken color management to new levels. The problem appears to be that while with 8 colors there are a zillion ways to blend them to achieve a particular color there is only one best way. Apparently the mathematics are complicated but are vastly simplified by use of a massive Look Up Table (LUT). Presumably all this is built into the driver. Down loading the driver results in about a dozen ICC paper profiles being installed in Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color but these can only be used with LR and the like. They cannot be loaded into the driver which reports that they are incompatible (or some such). My suspicion is that the LUT is available only when the printer manages colors. I don't know why this should be but that's what it seems to be. Apparently Epson's larger printers have been using this for a while and it is now moving to smaller models. http://factor.bg/epson/SP9900/Maximu...r_fidelity.pdf is a blurb which doesn't really tell you much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egLCg3GiXIE is also a blurb but gives more information. Whatever the explanation I am banging my head on the wall waiting with great impatience for a version of the driver which incorporates the profile for Archival Matte paper. I suspect that your observation may be the result of a mistake somewhere. The photo you posted the other day of flower in a vase, I was going to comment on. I didn't see any issue with it viewed on screen, and it was also totally within gamut (R3880) on gloss/pearl papers. I viewed the photo on a large TV with laptop connected, yet that had no problem displaying the colours without any obvious posterisation or other issues. I didn't look on my calibrated system. I'm confident it would print fine using "printer manages colour" and default settings for Epson paper stock. But a problem exists if using non Epson paper... Probably not too bad in some cases though, as for example, I've printed using "printer manages colour" with Ilford papers and Epson settings for similar papers, and the result is probably close enough for most people. However on matte papers, it's a different story, some of the reds were definitely out of gamut. Sure - you could try it out and see, but I'll stick with soft-proofing and adjustment and a colour managed print process to ensure that I get WYSIWYG screenrint matches - rather than a lottery. I guess with Epson matte/fine art papers, those adjustments to avoid out of gamut and to tweak colour could be used by editing while soft-proofing, then send to the printer and allow the printer to manage colour. With non-epson papers or custom profiles - then no, it won't work. Ilford has icc profiles for their papers and most printers. http://www.ilford.com/printer-profile-list I would be suprised if they have one for the Epson LUT technology. I suspect Epson may be reluctant to let others use it. It's not specific to the Epson technology, it fits the ICC standard. Waiting for Epson to supply a larger variety of profiles is never likely to be productive! They have not done so for many years, and are unlikely to change any time soon. This is not an issue that just surfaced recently or only for the printers you are looking at. Perhaps the reason is obvious too, though I personally don't think this should ever apply to consumer printer, and don't even much like it for commercial photo printers either! But the fact is that buying a Color Monki and making your own custom profiles is a vastly better solution. At the commercial level that is extended to the point that a new batch of ink or a new batch of paper (never mind just a new type or brand) is cause to generate a new ICC profile. Note that some of the commercial printers even come with spectrograph hardware pre-installed. -- Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/ Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) |
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