The Hazards of going Digital

Methods for storage of digital images have been discussed at length
both on the photo and scanning groups and one consensus has been that
no matter what method of storage used, be it film of digital none come
with a guarantee and none are fool proof.

With digital we *should* keep multiple copies on separate computers,
if possible and at least duplicate hard copies such as CD or DVD in
separate places. Still, the general the experienced and experience
say that sooner of later you will lose some images.

Now, as to experience.
I keep copies of current images on at least two computers and I keep
dual copies on DVDs stored in separate places.

Given that background:
I decided to upgrade three of the 4 computers here in February while
my wife was on a bike tour in a warm climate.

Sooo... I upgraded this machine to a 3.4 Gig, 64 bit Athlon with 2 Gig
of super fast DDR RAM with a new motherboard and Ultra ATA 120, 200
and 250 Gig HDs. That's 570 Gig, or over half a terabyte on this
computer.

I moved the old 2.8 Gig Athlon XP plus with 1 Gig RAM to my wife's
machine to replace the old 1.8 XP + system, and I upgraded the machine
next to this one by replacing the 2 Gig XP plus with a 3.2 Gig XP Plus
and one gig of fast DDR memory. That machine has two 160 Gig HDs for
320 Gig total.

The machine in the shop has 120, 200, and 250 HDs for back up (as I
recall) for another 570 Gig. That's *currently* a total of 1.46
terabytes between the three machines not counting my wife's which only
has a total of 80 Gig (two 40s)

Where am I heading? With all the changes, I backed up each computer
across the network before the upgrade and I did them one at a time to
keep the confusion factor low. I also had the images on dual backups.

Unfortunately, quite a few times I ended up splitting directories
between machines due to lack of space. The larger HDs were added
later.

After the upgrades were complete I had to restore the files and then
reorganize the backups.

Unfortunately, due to working with multiple backups across the network
and updating DVDs, the wrong DVDs ended up being disposed and there
were sub directories missing from the machines due to incomplete
backups due to lack of space.

Due to a very well organized filing system I did not lose any of my
scans, but I lost about 3,000 digital images for the year 2004 and
they are gone beyond retrieval. Most were unimportant, but a few were
once in a lifetime shots and I just had a request for a series of
those shots. There are many that are in categorized directories and
those were saved, but the majority from mid June through the end of
the year are gone. Now *maybe* some of the old DVDs will turn up. I
did find one so there *may* be others.

The main thing I got out of all this and want to pass on, is that
even with well organized filing systems and back ups you can easily
screw up and it is far easier to do with digital files than with boxes
of negatives. OTOH I have had negatives destroyed, or lost for one
reason or another as well.

NEW RULE: Only do one thing at a time when working with files!
Do not do anything else to distract you when backing up and deleting
directories.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger wrote:

Methods for storage of digital images have been discussed at length
both on the photo and scanning groups and one consensus has been that
no matter what method of storage used, be it film of digital none come
with a guarantee and none are fool proof.

[snip]

Roger,

I just slipped some dvd backups of my photos into my jacket. They are
heading in to work to be stored in my locked desk.

Hope you remember some drive you may have laid aside in the past.

Wes



--
Reply to:
Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
Lycos address is a spam trap.

Roger wrote:

Methods for storage of digital images have been discussed at length
both on the photo and scanning groups and one consensus has been that
no matter what method of storage used, be it film of digital none come
with a guarantee and none are fool proof.

[snip]

Roger,

I just slipped some dvd backups of my photos into my jacket. They are
heading in to work to be stored in my locked desk.

Hope you remember some drive you may have laid aside in the past.

Wes



--
Reply to:
Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
Lycos address is a spam trap.

wrote:
Roger wrote:


Methods for storage of digital images have been discussed at length
both on the photo and scanning groups and one consensus has been that
no matter what method of storage used, be it film of digital none come
with a guarantee and none are fool proof.


[snip]

Roger,

I just slipped some dvd backups of my photos into my jacket. They are
heading in to work to be stored in my locked desk.

Hope you remember some drive you may have laid aside in the past.

Wes

Hi...

I too sympathize with the loss, and hope old drives are found.

Let me share how we handle the risk; possibly preaching to the
choir, but perhaps useful to some newer users...

Live in cul-de-sac (half a dozen houses in a semi-circle.
Took pictures all my life, so over the past 25 years have
everyone in the bay sharing my hobby. Lots of pictures. Lots.

What we do is make backups, and store them for each other.
Blank dvd's are virtually free, and everyone, even if they
feel cramped, has tons of available long term storage space.

So I store backups of my neighbors stuff; they store mine.
I keep theirs in the furthest highest corner of the corner
kitchen cabinet. Almost unreachable space, without effort.
There's lots more if others prefer... the top corner shelf of
a bedroom closet... the back of the top shelf in a linen
closet. Lots of spots.

And the "rule" is that we don't touch each others. They're not
mine to look at, to inspect, nothing at all save hand them back
to their owner on request. Maybe move them once a year or so
when the shelf liner is replaced, but that's it. And they're so
tiny that none ever get thrown out, just added to.

And, with respect for Roger's loss; the ideal would be to do a
complete back up immediately before doing anything that presented
even the tiniest of risks.

And after backing up, deliver them to "his neighbor". You can't
touch what you can't see, and you can't hurt what you can't touch.

Hope this is helpful, once again hope Roger finds his missing pics.

Take care.

Ken

"Roger" wrote in message
...
Methods for storage of digital images have been discussed at length
both on the photo and scanning groups and one consensus has been that
no matter what method of storage used, be it film of digital none come
with a guarantee and none are fool proof.

With digital we *should* keep multiple copies on separate computers,
if possible and at least duplicate hard copies such as CD or DVD in
separate places. Still, the general the experienced and experience
say that sooner of later you will lose some images.

Now, as to experience.
I keep copies of current images on at least two computers and I keep
dual copies on DVDs stored in separate places.

Given that background:
I decided to upgrade three of the 4 computers here in February while
my wife was on a bike tour in a warm climate.

Sooo... I upgraded this machine to a 3.4 Gig, 64 bit Athlon with 2 Gig
of super fast DDR RAM with a new motherboard and Ultra ATA 120, 200
and 250 Gig HDs. That's 570 Gig, or over half a terabyte on this
computer.

I moved the old 2.8 Gig Athlon XP plus with 1 Gig RAM to my wife's
machine to replace the old 1.8 XP + system, and I upgraded the machine
next to this one by replacing the 2 Gig XP plus with a 3.2 Gig XP Plus
and one gig of fast DDR memory. That machine has two 160 Gig HDs for
320 Gig total.

The machine in the shop has 120, 200, and 250 HDs for back up (as I
recall) for another 570 Gig. That's *currently* a total of 1.46
terabytes between the three machines not counting my wife's which only
has a total of 80 Gig (two 40s)

Where am I heading? With all the changes, I backed up each computer
across the network before the upgrade and I did them one at a time to
keep the confusion factor low. I also had the images on dual backups.

Unfortunately, quite a few times I ended up splitting directories
between machines due to lack of space. The larger HDs were added
later.

After the upgrades were complete I had to restore the files and then
reorganize the backups.

Unfortunately, due to working with multiple backups across the network
and updating DVDs, the wrong DVDs ended up being disposed and there
were sub directories missing from the machines due to incomplete
backups due to lack of space.

Due to a very well organized filing system I did not lose any of my
scans, but I lost about 3,000 digital images for the year 2004 and
they are gone beyond retrieval. Most were unimportant, but a few were
once in a lifetime shots and I just had a request for a series of
those shots. There are many that are in categorized directories and
those were saved, but the majority from mid June through the end of
the year are gone. Now *maybe* some of the old DVDs will turn up. I
did find one so there *may* be others.

The main thing I got out of all this and want to pass on, is that
even with well organized filing systems and back ups you can easily
screw up and it is far easier to do with digital files than with boxes
of negatives. OTOH I have had negatives destroyed, or lost for one
reason or another as well.

NEW RULE: Only do one thing at a time when working with files!
Do not do anything else to distract you when backing up and deleting
directories.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Does anyone know of some software that will compare 2 directories and copy
the files that are different? I wish I could just drag the dir that I use
daily onto my other drive but windows doesn't have an option to replace only
newer files, or to say no to all for overwriting...What I end up doing is
just kicking on "yes to all" to overwrite all the files in the backup dir
whether they have changed or not.

"Dirty Harry" writes:
Does anyone know of some software that will compare 2 directories and copy
the files that are different?

Yes, rsync: http://samba.anu.edu.au/rsync/

If you want to use it under Windows you will first need to install
Cygwin: www.cygwin.com.

Dirty Harry wrote:

Does anyone know of some software that will compare 2 directories and copy
the files that are different? I wish I could just drag the dir that I use
daily onto my other drive but windows doesn't have an option to replace only
newer files, or to say no to all for overwriting...What I end up doing is
just kicking on "yes to all" to overwrite all the files in the backup dir
whether they have changed or not.

If you're familiar with the command line, try an enhanced command-line
interpreter like 4NT. The following command in 4NT (/u is for "update")
would copy from DIRA to DIRB, only files that are newer that the
existing ones in DIRB, or files that don't exist in DIRB:

copy /u dira\* dirb

Or something like this:

move /su dira\* dirb

....would move all new or non-existing (at the destination) files,
including subdirectories (/s).

Another useful option is /c (changed - only replace existing older files).

There are also enhanced options for selecting by size, date, time, and
other criteria as well (you could have it, say, move only files dated
last thursday...)

Dirty Harry wrote:

Does anyone know of some software that will compare 2 directories and copy
the files that are different? I wish I could just drag the dir that I use
daily onto my other drive but windows doesn't have an option to replace only
newer files, or to say no to all for overwriting...What I end up doing is
just kicking on "yes to all" to overwrite all the files in the backup dir
whether they have changed or not.

If you're familiar with the command line, try an enhanced command-line
interpreter like 4NT. The following command in 4NT (/u is for "update")
would copy from DIRA to DIRB, only files that are newer that the
existing ones in DIRB, or files that don't exist in DIRB:

copy /u dira\* dirb

Or something like this:

move /su dira\* dirb

....would move all new or non-existing (at the destination) files,
including subdirectories (/s).

Another useful option is /c (changed - only replace existing older files).

There are also enhanced options for selecting by size, date, time, and
other criteria as well (you could have it, say, move only files dated
last thursday...)

2005-04-04, Roger wrote:
[...]
After the upgrades were complete I had to restore the files and then
reorganize the backups.

Unfortunately, due to working with multiple backups across the network
and updating DVDs, the wrong DVDs ended up being disposed and there
were sub directories missing from the machines due to incomplete
backups due to lack of space.

Maybe a dumb question, but wouldn't the backup software warn when this
happens? If it fails like this I would not want to use it. Btw, what OS
and software where you using for this?

-peter

2005-04-04, Peter wrote:
2005-04-04, Roger wrote:
[...]

Maybe a dumb question, but wouldn't the backup software warn when this
happens? If it fails like this I would not want to use it. Btw, what OS
and software where you using for this?

I'm blind, I see you wrote XP in the original posting. So it was a dumb
question :-)

-peter