Major sensor technology developments

I'll start a new thread about this, since there hasn't
been any discussion on this for a while.

I would expect a couple of sensor technology leaps in
the near futu

1. Organic sensors (separate storage and light sensitive
layers, see for instance Panasonic).
Benefits: substantially increased dynamic range,
electronic global shutter, electronic variable ND
filter.

2. Full colour sensors: full RGB info at every pixel.
Probably can be implemented with the organic sensor
design (three stacked layers, each sensitive to a
certain range of colours).
Benefits: all incoming photons are used, full colour
info at any pixel resulting in less colour aliasing =
high effective sensor resolution.
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
https://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

On 3/16/2019 12:21 PM, Alfred Molon wrote:
I'll start a new thread about this, since there hasn't
been any discussion on this for a while.

I would expect a couple of sensor technology leaps in
the near futu

1. Organic sensors (separate storage and light sensitive
layers, see for instance Panasonic).
Benefits: substantially increased dynamic range,
electronic global shutter, electronic variable ND
filter.

2. Full colour sensors: full RGB info at every pixel.
Probably can be implemented with the organic sensor
design (three stacked layers, each sensitive to a
certain range of colours).
Benefits: all incoming photons are used, full colour
info at any pixel resulting in less colour aliasing =
high effective sensor resolution.

The concept of full RGB at every pixel via stacked layers was available
in Sigma's Foveon cameras quite a while ago. Looks like they're about
ready to introduce a new FF L-mount model.

https://petapixel.com/2018/09/26/sigma-to-launch-full-frame-foveon-l-mount-mirrorless-camera/

--
best regards,

Neil

On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 17:43:16 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Alfred
Molon wrote:

2. Full colour sensors: full RGB info at every pixel.

that's not necessary. bayer works exceptionally well because it's based
on human physiology.

full rgb offers nothing that can be seen and brings with it a lot of
compromises.

Probably can be implemented with the organic sensor
design (three stacked layers, each sensitive to a
certain range of colours).
Benefits: all incoming photons are used,

all incoming photons are used with bayer.

That can't be right.

R cells will waste G and B.
G cells will waste R and B
B cells will waste R and G


full colour
info at any pixel resulting in less colour aliasing =
high effective sensor resolution.

except that foevon cameras omit the anti-alias filter, resulting in
*more* aliasing, not less.

they also lie about the number of pixels in an attempt to fool people
into thinking the sensor is better than it actually is, resulting in
the effective resolution being *less* than competing cameras.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Alfred
Molon wrote:

2. Full colour sensors: full RGB info at every pixel.

that's not necessary. bayer works exceptionally well because it's based
on human physiology.

full rgb offers nothing that can be seen and brings with it a lot of
compromises.

Probably can be implemented with the organic sensor
design (three stacked layers, each sensitive to a
certain range of colours).
Benefits: all incoming photons are used,

all incoming photons are used with bayer.

full colour
info at any pixel resulting in less colour aliasing =
high effective sensor resolution.

except that foevon cameras omit the anti-alias filter, resulting in
*more* aliasing, not less.

they also lie about the number of pixels in an attempt to fool people
into thinking the sensor is better than it actually is, resulting in
the effective resolution being *less* than competing cameras.

In article , Neil
wrote:

2. Full colour sensors: full RGB info at every pixel.
Probably can be implemented with the organic sensor
design (three stacked layers, each sensitive to a
certain range of colours).
Benefits: all incoming photons are used, full colour
info at any pixel resulting in less colour aliasing =
high effective sensor resolution.

The concept of full RGB at every pixel via stacked layers was available
in Sigma's Foveon cameras quite a while ago.

the concept was, but the results have been substantially worse than
normal cameras.

foveon is nothing more than smoke & mirrors (or just smoke for
mirrorless), with the images full of alias artifacts, blotchy colours
and heavy sharpening.

sigma lied about it being true rgb. it's actually three points in the
spectrum that requires conversion to rgb. in other words, it's guessing
all three components.

sigma also lied about how many pixels there are, inflating it by a
factor of 3 in an attempt to make it seem like the sensor is better
than it actually is.

Looks like they're about
ready to introduce a new FF L-mount model.

https://petapixel.com/2018/09/26/sigma-to-launch-full-frame-foveon-l-mount-mirrorless-camera/

sigma is lying once again. imagine that.

the new sensor is actually a *dual* layer sensor, with alternating rows
of blue/green and green/red *pairs* (not triplets):
https://www.l-rumors.com/this-patent...e-foveon-full-
frame-dual-layer-tech/

despite that, they're still inflating the pixel count by 3 instead of 2:
https://twitter.com/nuko009/status/1101312957378572288/photo/1

5520x3680 pixels is 20.3 mp, which is nothing special.

the camera has also been delayed to at 2020 (probably longer), at which
point, 20 mp will be even more of a joke than it is now.

plus, with alternating rows, there will be a world of ugly artifacts.

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Benefits: all incoming photons are used,

all incoming photons are used with bayer.

That can't be right.

it is right.

R cells will waste G and B.
G cells will waste R and B
B cells will waste R and G

not true. nothing is wasted.

every photon is measured by at least one sensel.

In article ,
says...
all incoming photons are used with bayer.

That can't be right.

R cells will waste G and B.
G cells will waste R and B
B cells will waste R and G

But if you had three stacked light sensitive layers over
each pixel, each capturing only red, green or blue light
this would work.
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
https://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
https://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

In article , Alfred
Molon wrote:

all incoming photons are used with bayer.

That can't be right.

R cells will waste G and B.
G cells will waste R and B
B cells will waste R and G

But if you had three stacked light sensitive layers over
each pixel, each capturing only red, green or blue light
this would work.

not without significant problems, which the current foveon
implementation clearly demonstrates.

On Sun, 17 Mar 2019 01:13:18 +0100, Alfred Molon
wrote:

In article ,
says...
all incoming photons are used with bayer.

That can't be right.

R cells will waste G and B.
G cells will waste R and B
B cells will waste R and G

But if you had three stacked light sensitive layers over
each pixel, each capturing only red, green or blue light
this would work.

Only if the photons were trapped by appropriate layer and otherwise
passed right through.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 17:59:34 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Benefits: all incoming photons are used,

all incoming photons are used with bayer.

That can't be right.

it is right.

R cells will waste G and B.
G cells will waste R and B
B cells will waste R and G

not true. nothing is wasted.

every photon is measured by at least one sensel.

So what happens to G and B photons which hit an R sensel?
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens