Bloody Ridiculous!

In article , MC
wrote:


I would not mind betting that most of those who bemoan the registry
concept are those who are current Mac users or early registry users
from the distant past who found their system constantly troubled by
registry problems (most of which were probably self inflicted by the
user anyway).

that's because mac users see the registry for what a cluster**** it
really is.

Windows registry is a probably the most efficient type of resource for
any OS and computer system .

nonsense. it's anything *but* efficient and has become a dumping ground
for pretty much everything.

After all, what is more efficient than a
one stop resource.

not a one stop resource.

Ok, so ALL computer files can become corrupt for
some reason or another and being a single file the registry can,
indeed, become a victim of this.

yep. that's one of its major drawbacks.

another problem is that it's incredibly easy for the registry to get
out of sync with the rest of the computer.

even something as minor as moving an app can cause things to break
because the registry entires reference its original location.

However, with restore systems and/or
backup solutions in place (which all windows systems have as standard)
it can mean that you can be up and running and back to normal again in
a couple of minutes to the point where it is as if nothing happened.

one which people fail to actually use, which means it won't be a couple
of minutes, which is a huge exaggeration even on a good day.

it takes a couple of minutes for windows update to figure out what
needs updating.

This does not seem much of a "cluster****" to me.

it is.

"Eric Stevens" wrote

| Note that Eric doesn't mention what all the Registry
| entries are that Revo claims it removed. He doesn't
| know what should be there and what shouldn't. Did
| the program present a list for his approval? If it did
| he apparently didn't understand the list. Yet he allowed
| this freebie trinket to edit his Registry.
|
| You are assuming a lot and clearly have no ida of the information that
| was presented to me.

No I don't. Because you never explained it. You said
your "best guess was some kind of macro language".
That soundsto me like you didn't know what you were
looking at. most people wouldn't. So I'm just going by
what you said. Over 6,000 entries and you have no idea
why it needed so many.

| In fact Revo presented me with a graphical map of
| the relevant registry trees. This will normally only allow the removal
| of entries at the very bottom of the tree and in some cases it gives
| warnings. Individual items from the list for deletion can be selected
| or rejected for removal.

And...? Still no details. So I assumed you didn't
understand what you were deleting, and you
said as much yourself.

Years ago I used to use Norton System Doctor,
which would always come up with hundreds of problems
for me to fix. Very satisfying. One really needed
an education to figure it all out. I didn't understand it
all so I let Norton do its thing. It was only later that
I realized Norton was *at best* doing useless deletions.
But the sense of cleaning house can be very satisfying.
Like incresasing your gas mileage by installing
fuzzy dice on the rearview mirror.

| As I said previously, I have used Revo to clean out a number of
| computers and I can say that your comment is wrong. It is my
| experience that even though the majority of Windows uninstallers will
| blithely tell you that they have removed all program files and
| registry entries, Revo will go on to find quite a number more.

Some programs might
leave the uninstaller behind. Maybe they'll leave
something like a log file. It's not unusual to leave
program settings in the Registry. Firefox, like most
programs, will leave personal files in your app data
folder. You can clean them out. I usually do. But
they do no harm. Except for a few rare things. For
instance, if you have Flash installed then Flash will
store Flash cookies in the bowels of your app data
folder, in a folder named Macromedia. That's a sleazy
privacy risk. But if you use Adobe Flash you can't
really care very much about privacy and security,
anyway. (Their method to let you control Flash
cookies is to make you use a page at their website!)

I tried installing those Nik plugins awhile back.
What an unholy mess that was! Gigantic piles of
crap, just for graphic plugins. That wasn't what was
left behind. That was the install itself.

The general logic is that 1) Most people know
nothing about any of this and 2) if they reinstall the
software they'll expect it to work as before. So it's
easier to just leave files behind. No one's pulling a
fast one. Though the Canon thing does sound messy.

On Fri, 5 May 2017 20:31:20 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

"Eric Stevens" wrote

| Note that Eric doesn't mention what all the Registry
| entries are that Revo claims it removed. He doesn't
| know what should be there and what shouldn't. Did
| the program present a list for his approval? If it did
| he apparently didn't understand the list. Yet he allowed
| this freebie trinket to edit his Registry.
|
| You are assuming a lot and clearly have no ida of the information that
| was presented to me.

No I don't. Because you never explained it. You said
your "best guess was some kind of macro language".
That soundsto me like you didn't know what you were
looking at. most people wouldn't. So I'm just going by
what you said. Over 6,000 entries and you have no idea
why it needed so many.

And I don't suppose anyone outside Canon would.

| In fact Revo presented me with a graphical map of
| the relevant registry trees. This will normally only allow the removal
| of entries at the very bottom of the tree and in some cases it gives
| warnings. Individual items from the list for deletion can be selected
| or rejected for removal.

And...? Still no details. So I assumed you didn't
understand what you were deleting, and you
said as much yourself.

You are jumping to conclusions. I knew what I was doing: I was
removing anything to do with Zoom Browser.

Years ago I used to use Norton System Doctor,
which would always come up with hundreds of problems
for me to fix. Very satisfying. One really needed
an education to figure it all out. I didn't understand it
all so I let Norton do its thing. It was only later that
I realized Norton was *at best* doing useless deletions.
But the sense of cleaning house can be very satisfying.
Like incresasing your gas mileage by installing
fuzzy dice on the rearview mirror.

| As I said previously, I have used Revo to clean out a number of
| computers and I can say that your comment is wrong. It is my
| experience that even though the majority of Windows uninstallers will
| blithely tell you that they have removed all program files and
| registry entries, Revo will go on to find quite a number more.

Some programs might
leave the uninstaller behind. Maybe they'll leave
something like a log file. It's not unusual to leave
program settings in the Registry. Firefox, like most
programs, will leave personal files in your app data
folder. You can clean them out. I usually do. But
they do no harm. Except for a few rare things. For
instance, if you have Flash installed then Flash will
store Flash cookies in the bowels of your app data
folder, in a folder named Macromedia. That's a sleazy
privacy risk. But if you use Adobe Flash you can't
really care very much about privacy and security,
anyway. (Their method to let you control Flash
cookies is to make you use a page at their website!)

I tried installing those Nik plugins awhile back.
What an unholy mess that was! Gigantic piles of
crap, just for graphic plugins. That wasn't what was
left behind. That was the install itself.

The general logic is that 1) Most people know
nothing about any of this and 2) if they reinstall the
software they'll expect it to work as before. So it's
easier to just leave files behind. No one's pulling a
fast one. Though the Canon thing does sound messy.

I was cleaning out software which I fully expected would never be run
again on that computer.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

"Eric Stevens" wrote

| I was cleaning out software which I fully expected would never be run
| again on that computer.

Interesting side note: In about '99 I bought a copy
of Quarterdeck Clean Sweep in the remainder bin
at Staples, for $10. It was amazing software. By simply
parsing uninstall logs it could back up and move nearly
any software. A Photoshop install could be copied to
a single backup file, with all files and Registry settings
then installed to any other computer. It worked because
software installers were very straightforward and
included INI-type files to guide the installer. So
Clean Sweep could create a movable version just by
parsing that file. Most software today probably
couldn't be copied in that way. The installers are
too complex.

On 2017-05-05 18:31, MC wrote:
Alan Browne wrote:

On 2017-05-04 20:26, Eric Stevens wrote:
I've been using Revo Uninstaller to clean out unwanted programs from
my old computer which now is only used for external backup and my
wife's photographs and email. All was going well until I came to
remove Canon's 'Zoom Browser".

There is an uninstaller for Zoom Browser but would you believe that
after it had been run and reported complete removal of everything to
do with Zoom Browser, Revo went on to find another 165 program files
and 6065 registry entries! I hate to think how many program files
and registry entries before Canon's unistaller was set to work.

6065 registry entries! Bloody Ridiculous!

Be happy you didn't have to do that manually as I once upon a time
had to do with a Norton AV de-install.

No idea what Norton stuff is like these days but it was a really big
resource (and registry) hog in the early years. I hated it. Used it
once (free introduction thingy), never again. Like you, I found tones
of registry issues left behind after I unistalled it.

A well designed OS doesn't need a registry.

--
"If war is God's way of teaching Americans geography, then
recession is His way of teaching everyone a little economics."
..Raj Patel, The Value of Nothing.

On 2017-05-05 18:56, MC wrote:
nospam wrote:

I would not mind betting that most of those who bemoan the registry
concept are those who are current Mac users or early registry users
from the distant past who found their system constantly troubled by
registry problems (most of which were probably self inflicted by the
user anyway).

that's because mac users see the registry for what a cluster**** it
really is.

Windows registry is a probably the most efficient type of resource for
any OS and computer system . After all, what is more efficient than a
one stop resource. Ok, so ALL computer files can become corrupt for
some reason or another and being a single file the registry can,
indeed, become a victim of this. However, with restore systems and/or
backup solutions in place (which all windows systems have as standard)
it can mean that you can be up and running and back to normal again in
a couple of minutes to the point where it is as if nothing happened.

This does not seem much of a "cluster****" to me.

The epitome of cluster**** is Windows Registry.

--
"If war is God's way of teaching Americans geography, then
recession is His way of teaching everyone a little economics."
..Raj Patel, The Value of Nothing.

On Fri, 05 May 2017 19:22:51 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , MC
wrote:


I would not mind betting that most of those who bemoan the registry
concept are those who are current Mac users or early registry users
from the distant past who found their system constantly troubled by
registry problems (most of which were probably self inflicted by the
user anyway).

that's because mac users see the registry for what a cluster**** it
really is.

Windows registry is a probably the most efficient type of resource for
any OS and computer system .

nonsense. it's anything *but* efficient and has become a dumping ground
for pretty much everything.

After all, what is more efficient than a
one stop resource.

not a one stop resource.

Ok, so ALL computer files can become corrupt for
some reason or another and being a single file the registry can,
indeed, become a victim of this.

yep. that's one of its major drawbacks.

another problem is that it's incredibly easy for the registry to get
out of sync with the rest of the computer.

even something as minor as moving an app can cause things to break
because the registry entires reference its original location.

Rather like moving photographs in Light Room without using LR to do
it. But the question is, why should one want to move program files
anyway? There must be a reason but I don't know what it might be.


However, with restore systems and/or
backup solutions in place (which all windows systems have as standard)
it can mean that you can be up and running and back to normal again in
a couple of minutes to the point where it is as if nothing happened.

one which people fail to actually use, which means it won't be a couple
of minutes, which is a huge exaggeration even on a good day.

it takes a couple of minutes for windows update to figure out what
needs updating.

This does not seem much of a "cluster****" to me.

it is.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Sat, 6 May 2017 17:04:51 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:

On 2017-05-05 18:31, MC wrote:
Alan Browne wrote:

On 2017-05-04 20:26, Eric Stevens wrote:
I've been using Revo Uninstaller to clean out unwanted programs from
my old computer which now is only used for external backup and my
wife's photographs and email. All was going well until I came to
remove Canon's 'Zoom Browser".

There is an uninstaller for Zoom Browser but would you believe that
after it had been run and reported complete removal of everything to
do with Zoom Browser, Revo went on to find another 165 program files
and 6065 registry entries! I hate to think how many program files
and registry entries before Canon's unistaller was set to work.

6065 registry entries! Bloody Ridiculous!

Be happy you didn't have to do that manually as I once upon a time
had to do with a Norton AV de-install.

No idea what Norton stuff is like these days but it was a really big
resource (and registry) hog in the early years. I hated it. Used it
once (free introduction thingy), never again. Like you, I found tones
of registry issues left behind after I unistalled it.

A well designed OS doesn't need a registry.

Irrespective of whether or not you are correct it's likely that MS
feels they are now stuck with it.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Ok, so ALL computer files can become corrupt for
some reason or another and being a single file the registry can,
indeed, become a victim of this.

yep. that's one of its major drawbacks.

another problem is that it's incredibly easy for the registry to get
out of sync with the rest of the computer.

even something as minor as moving an app can cause things to break
because the registry entires reference its original location.

Rather like moving photographs in Light Room without using LR to do
it.

nothing like it at all.

But the question is, why should one want to move program files
anyway? There must be a reason but I don't know what it might be.

because the user might want to move it. very simple. it's their
machine, after all.

the point is that the registry can easily get out of sync with the rest
of the system, at which point, **** happens.

it's poorly designed. it's a cluster****.

On Sat, 06 May 2017 18:51:52 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Ok, so ALL computer files can become corrupt for
some reason or another and being a single file the registry can,
indeed, become a victim of this.

yep. that's one of its major drawbacks.

another problem is that it's incredibly easy for the registry to get
out of sync with the rest of the computer.

even something as minor as moving an app can cause things to break
because the registry entires reference its original location.

Rather like moving photographs in Light Room without using LR to do
it.

nothing like it at all.

You don't see the common factor? Pity.

But the question is, why should one want to move program files
anyway? There must be a reason but I don't know what it might be.

because the user might want to move it. very simple. it's their
machine, after all.

Your answer is 'The user might want to move it because the user might
want to move it. I like your clarity of thought.

the point is that the registry can easily get out of sync with the rest
of the system, at which point, **** happens.

it's poorly designed. it's a cluster****.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens