WTF Adobe?

In article 2014062812583023781-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

On 2014-06-28 11:55:40 +0000, "Mayayana" said:

| Where is the saving? What does Adobe really think it is doing?
|
| Business as usual for its Aus/NZ customers, I'd say. Haven't used an
| Adobe product since the release of Adobe CS.
| http://www.itnews.com.au/News/351525...ed-it-pricing-
| report-released.aspx
|
Interesting. Adobe blames "boxed software". Yet I'm
in NE US and the local supermarkets would sooner sell
me Chilean produce than Californian or local. I once read
that the transport cost is about $.50/pound, though there's
no way to compare, really. Produce prices fluctuate and
business details surely vary when dealing in foreign countries.
(And I wouldn't buy foreign produce, anyway, so I haven't
really noticed. Green apricots in February for $3.50/pound is
not a good price in any context.)

If it's any consolation, while you may be getting exploited
I don't think it's generally much better north of the equator.
Software is a business of monopolies with little regulation.
Adobe is similar to Microsoft in that: People *could* use
another product, but in the majority of cases they won't.
So both Adobe and Microsoft get away with extreme price
gouging.

Now Adobe has convinced a surprising number of customers
to rent rather than buy, and has even got them to submit to
forced online logins every time they want to use their software
... or rather, every time they want to use Adobe's software service.

Get your facts right. There is no "forced online login every time they
want to use their software....", or even "every time they want to use
Adobe's software service." (WTF is Adobe's software service?)

If you use Dropbox and their cloud service you login. With Adobe the CC
software is installed on your desktop, and is available to use without
being online. If you choose to use any of their Creative Cloud storage,
sharing, or collaboration service, then you will have to be online and
logged in just as you would if you were using Dropbox storage, sharing,
or collaboration service to do the same.

The only obligation you have to be online with CC is once every ±45
days when your installation is pinged.

Given that, I would expect the price to start going up, since
people are even more addicted to Adobe now than they were
before. And this initial crop of renters is a self-selecting group
of people who can be expected to think they need every upgrade,
at almost any cost.

If anything it is just the opposite. The initial $9.99/month promotion
for CS3+ users has been expanded beyond its initial 4 month life, and
is now the de facto package subscription price, effectively a price
reduction from the original single app rate of $20/month. Now
subscribers get a package of powerful photography editing and asset
management software for half that price.

and lightroom is available as a non-subscription version, so after the
one-time purchase price, it's $0/month.

Looked at that way, it wouldn't make sense for Adobe not to
turn the screws. What self-respecting salesman, having sold
the Brooklyn Bridge, wouldn't then try to add the Empire State
Building to the deal? (Offer good for a limited time only! Buy
now and get Central Park for 50% off!!....But that's not all!!.... )

Again get your facts straight before you spread FUD.

facts would spoil his lunatic ranting.

| Now Adobe has convinced a surprising number of customers
| to rent rather than buy, and has even got them to submit to
| forced online logins every time they want to use their software
| ... or rather, every time they want to use Adobe's software service.
|
| Get your facts right. There is no "forced online login every time they
| want to use their software....", or even "every time they want to use
| Adobe's software service." (WTF is Adobe's software service?)

http://4leet.com/adobe-creative-clou...loud-big-fail/

"But every other Adobe service that used Adobe's ID system was also
affected, as noted by The Register's Alistair Dibbs. At least one "national
[UK] newspaper" wasn't able to publish its Adobe DPS tablet edition on
Thursday because of the outage."

If you say you can use PS with Adobe's site down, I believe
you. But that doesn't seem to be the scenario with many
people who actually do use the CC services. Though I wonder
why you would have gone in for this rental deal, when you already
had the latest real version of Photoshop, if you don't use any
of the online services. Are there new filters or some such that
are really worth the expense?

| Given that, I would expect the price to start going up, since
| people are even more addicted to Adobe now than they were
| before. And this initial crop of renters is a self-selecting group
| of people who can be expected to think they need every upgrade,
| at almost any cost.
|
| If anything it is just the opposite. The initial $9.99/month promotion
| for CS3+ users has been expanded beyond its initial 4 month life, and
| is now the de facto package subscription price, effectively a price
| reduction from the original single app rate of $20/month. Now
| subscribers get a package of powerful photography editing and asset
| management software for half that price.
|

Half of the price that they cooked up out of thin air
in the first place? Maybe they'll keep the price at a level
where you, at least, think it's a good deal. Maybe they
won't. To me it looks a lot like cable TV: Once you're
hooked it's hard to reject a price increase, and since Adobe
has a long history of price gouging I see no reason to
think they won't gouge you for anything they can get
away with.

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

| Now Adobe has convinced a surprising number of customers
| to rent rather than buy, and has even got them to submit to
| forced online logins every time they want to use their software
| ... or rather, every time they want to use Adobe's software service.
|
| Get your facts right. There is no "forced online login every time they
| want to use their software....", or even "every time they want to use
| Adobe's software service." (WTF is Adobe's software service?)

http://4leet.com/adobe-creative-clou...loud-big-fail/

"But every other Adobe service that used Adobe's ID system was also
affected, as noted by The Register's Alistair Dibbs. At least one "national
[UK] newspaper" wasn't able to publish its Adobe DPS tablet edition on
Thursday because of the outage."

oh no, one newspaper couldn't publish a tablet edition!! the sky is
falling!

how many users have been adversely affected by local system failures,
corrupt hard drives, lack of backups, malware and various other issues?

answer: a *lot* more, it just doesn't make headlines so you don't hear
about it.

If you say you can use PS with Adobe's site down, I believe
you. But that doesn't seem to be the scenario with many
people who actually do use the CC services.

some people use the cloud services and others don't. what's surprising
about that?

*any* system can fail.

Though I wonder
why you would have gone in for this rental deal, when you already
had the latest real version of Photoshop, if you don't use any
of the online services. Are there new filters or some such that
are really worth the expense?

to some people there are.

cs6 will only get maintenance upgrades to maintain compatibility with
future systems. it will not get any new features.

cc will be upgraded on a continual basis, which it just was.

| Given that, I would expect the price to start going up, since
| people are even more addicted to Adobe now than they were
| before. And this initial crop of renters is a self-selecting group
| of people who can be expected to think they need every upgrade,
| at almost any cost.
|
| If anything it is just the opposite. The initial $9.99/month promotion
| for CS3+ users has been expanded beyond its initial 4 month life, and
| is now the de facto package subscription price, effectively a price
| reduction from the original single app rate of $20/month. Now
| subscribers get a package of powerful photography editing and asset
| management software for half that price.

Half of the price that they cooked up out of thin air
in the first place? Maybe they'll keep the price at a level
where you, at least, think it's a good deal. Maybe they
won't. To me it looks a lot like cable TV: Once you're
hooked it's hard to reject a price increase, and since Adobe
has a long history of price gouging I see no reason to
think they won't gouge you for anything they can get
away with.

more rubbish. where do people come up with this stuff anyway?

adobe does *not* have a history of price gouging at all. in fact, it's
the *opposite*.

for example, lightroom was initially $299 and now it's $129. the price
went *down*. it's less than half what it once was!

what's really hilarious is that adobe announced that they're 'doubling
down' in the wake of their major (if not their only) competitor exiting
the market.

if adobe wanted to gouge customers, wouldn't now be a good time to
*raise* prices, now that there's no more competition?

On 2014-06-28 23:30:04 +0000, "Mayayana" said:

| Now Adobe has convinced a surprising number of customers
| to rent rather than buy, and has even got them to submit to
| forced online logins every time they want to use their software
| ... or rather, every time they want to use Adobe's software service.
|
| Get your facts right. There is no "forced online login every time they
| want to use their software....", or even "every time they want to use
| Adobe's software service." (WTF is Adobe's software service?)

http://4leet.com/adobe-creative-clou...loud-big-fail/

"But every other Adobe service that used Adobe's ID system was also
affected, as noted by The Register's Alistair Dibbs. At least one "national
[UK] newspaper" wasn't able to publish its Adobe DPS tablet edition on
Thursday because of the outage."

To start with, both that article and the story in the Register were
sensationalizing FUD. The CC ID services which use the Creative Cloud,
Behance, Reveal, and the account holder's CC storage were unavailable
for about 16 hours, not "more than 24 hours" as stated in those
articles. I know this because I use those services and I had issues
logging in through the day and was able to gain access by 9 PM the same
evening.

At no time was I unable to use PS CC, or LR5 which were installed on on
my desktop Mac. My image files which are in those CC services are not
originals, those are on my HDD and backup archives.

I have no doubt that some publications were effected, but being out for
over 24 hours is an exaggeration and is more of a statement of those
who were put out, not having a fail-safe system in place for just this
sort of eventuality. Regardless it was a one time event of about 16
hours and has yet to repeat itself.

If you say you can use PS with Adobe's site down, I believe
you.

That's nice, because that is the truth and all of us using CC know it.

But that doesn't seem to be the scenario with many
people who actually do use the CC services.

I actually use PS CC, LR5, Mobile LR, Reveal, Behance, and the 20GB of
CC storage my $9.99/month provides me.

Though I wonder why you would have gone in for this rental deal, when
you already
had the latest real version of Photoshop, if you don't use any
of the online services.

Did I ever say I didn't use any of the CC online services?
I said, I didn't have to be online to use Photoshop CC.

I have been a PS user starting with PS7, then PS CS2, with upgrades to
CS3, CS5, & CS6. When the CC was first announced I believed that CS6
was going to be the end of the Photoshop upgrade line for me. I
intended to buy a hard copy of Lightroom 5 upgrade from LR2, and look
for PS alternatives.
Then in September last year Adobe announced the $9.99/month program. At
that price I could get LR5, PS CC & the CC online services for far less
than riding the upgrade train.

Are there new filters or some such that
are really worth the expense?

There are some features which are worth it.

| Given that, I would expect the price to start going up, since
| people are even more addicted to Adobe now than they were
| before. And this initial crop of renters is a self-selecting group
| of people who can be expected to think they need every upgrade,
| at almost any cost.
|
| If anything it is just the opposite. The initial $9.99/month promotion
| for CS3+ users has been expanded beyond its initial 4 month life, and
| is now the de facto package subscription price, effectively a price
| reduction from the original single app rate of $20/month. Now
| subscribers get a package of powerful photography editing and asset
| management software for half that price.
|

Half of the price that they cooked up out of thin air
in the first place? Maybe they'll keep the price at a level
where you, at least, think it's a good deal. Maybe they
won't. To me it looks a lot like cable TV: Once you're
hooked it's hard to reject a price increase, and since Adobe
has a long history of price gouging I see no reason to
think they won't gouge you for anything they can get
away with.

As always, you are entitled to your opinion, just don't spread FUD
regarding something of which you have no experience.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 6/28/2014 7:55 AM, Mayayana wrote:

snip

Interesting. Adobe blames "boxed software". Yet I'm
in NE US and the local supermarkets would sooner sell
me Chilean produce than Californian or local. I once read
that the transport cost is about $.50/pound, though there's
no way to compare, really. Produce prices fluctuate and
business details surely vary when dealing in foreign countries.
(And I wouldn't buy foreign produce, anyway, so I haven't
really noticed. Green apricots in February for $3.50/pound is
not a good price in any context.)

If it's any consolation, while you may be getting exploited
I don't think it's generally much better north of the equator.
Software is a business of monopolies with little regulation.
Adobe is similar to Microsoft in that: People *could* use
another product, but in the majority of cases they won't.
So both Adobe and Microsoft get away with extreme price
gouging.

Now Adobe has convinced a surprising number of customers
to rent rather than buy, and has even got them to submit to
forced online logins every time they want to use their software
... or rather, every time they want to use Adobe's software service.
Given that, I would expect the price to start going up, since
people are even more addicted to Adobe now than they were
before. And this initial crop of renters is a self-selecting group
of people who can be expected to think they need every upgrade,
at almost any cost.
Looked at that way, it wouldn't make sense for Adobe not to
turn the screws. What self-respecting salesman, having sold
the Brooklyn Bridge, wouldn't then try to add the Empire State
Building to the deal? (Offer good for a limited time only! Buy
now and get Central Park for 50% off!!....But that's not all!!.... )


Now you've gone too far. Nobody has the right to sell that bridge,
except for me. I bought it over forty years ago, and have been lobbying
for tolls ever since.


--
PeterN

| As always, you are entitled to your opinion, just don't spread FUD
| regarding something of which you have no experience.
|

It's up to you if you don't mind the rental deal,
but frankly I see your view as splitting hairs. Whether
you log in every time you use it or not, you have to
keep paying for a rental deal as long as you use the
software, and you have to allow some kind of Adobe
spyware in order to enforce that deal. The whole point
of their scheme is to make it seem that the software is
an online service. It's good that using the software
doesn't necessarily depend on the Adobe site being up
in many cases, but that's hardly encouraging to me.
I only regret that so many people have accepted the
rental scheme. If people hadn't bought in they would
have had to have backtracked. Instead they've set
a precedent of sorts for other companies.

| Looked at that way, it wouldn't make sense for Adobe not to
| turn the screws. What self-respecting salesman, having sold
| the Brooklyn Bridge, wouldn't then try to add the Empire State
| Building to the deal? (Offer good for a limited time only! Buy
| now and get Central Park for 50% off!!....But that's not all!!.... )
|
|
| Now you've gone too far. Nobody has the right to sell that bridge,
| except for me. I bought it over forty years ago, and have been lobbying
| for tolls ever since.
|

Aha! And you still haven't paid me for it!
Tellya' what I'll do: Send me $10/month in
perpetuity and we'll call it even.

On 6/28/2014 8:40 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2014-06-28 23:30:04 +0000, "Mayayana" said:

| Now Adobe has convinced a surprising number of customers
| to rent rather than buy, and has even got them to submit to
| forced online logins every time they want to use their software
| ... or rather, every time they want to use Adobe's software service.
|
| Get your facts right. There is no "forced online login every time they
| want to use their software....", or even "every time they want to use
| Adobe's software service." (WTF is Adobe's software service?)

http://4leet.com/adobe-creative-clou...loud-big-fail/

"But every other Adobe service that used Adobe's ID system was also
affected, as noted by The Register's Alistair Dibbs. At least one
"national
[UK] newspaper" wasn't able to publish its Adobe DPS tablet edition on
Thursday because of the outage."

To start with, both that article and the story in the Register were
sensationalizing FUD. The CC ID services which use the Creative Cloud,
Behance, Reveal, and the account holder's CC storage were unavailable
for about 16 hours, not "more than 24 hours" as stated in those
articles. I know this because I use those services and I had issues
logging in through the day and was able to gain access by 9 PM the same
evening.

At no time was I unable to use PS CC, or LR5 which were installed on on
my desktop Mac. My image files which are in those CC services are not
originals, those are on my HDD and backup archives.

I have no doubt that some publications were effected, but being out for
over 24 hours is an exaggeration and is more of a statement of those who
were put out, not having a fail-safe system in place for just this sort
of eventuality. Regardless it was a one time event of about 16 hours and
has yet to repeat itself.

If you say you can use PS with Adobe's site down, I believe
you.

That's nice, because that is the truth and all of us using CC know it.

But that doesn't seem to be the scenario with many
people who actually do use the CC services.

I actually use PS CC, LR5, Mobile LR, Reveal, Behance, and the 20GB of
CC storage my $9.99/month provides me.

Though I wonder why you would have gone in for this rental deal, when
you already
had the latest real version of Photoshop, if you don't use any
of the online services.

Did I ever say I didn't use any of the CC online services?
I said, I didn't have to be online to use Photoshop CC.

I have been a PS user starting with PS7, then PS CS2, with upgrades to
CS3, CS5, & CS6. When the CC was first announced I believed that CS6 was
going to be the end of the Photoshop upgrade line for me. I intended to
buy a hard copy of Lightroom 5 upgrade from LR2, and look for PS
alternatives.
Then in September last year Adobe announced the $9.99/month program. At
that price I could get LR5, PS CC & the CC online services for far less
than riding the upgrade train.

Are there new filters or some such that
are really worth the expense?

There are some features which are worth it.

| Given that, I would expect the price to start going up, since
| people are even more addicted to Adobe now than they were
| before. And this initial crop of renters is a self-selecting group
| of people who can be expected to think they need every upgrade,
| at almost any cost.
|
| If anything it is just the opposite. The initial $9.99/month promotion
| for CS3+ users has been expanded beyond its initial 4 month life, and
| is now the de facto package subscription price, effectively a price
| reduction from the original single app rate of $20/month. Now
| subscribers get a package of powerful photography editing and asset
| management software for half that price.
|

Half of the price that they cooked up out of thin air
in the first place? Maybe they'll keep the price at a level
where you, at least, think it's a good deal. Maybe they
won't. To me it looks a lot like cable TV: Once you're
hooked it's hard to reject a price increase, and since Adobe
has a long history of price gouging I see no reason to
think they won't gouge you for anything they can get
away with.

As always, you are entitled to your opinion, just don't spread FUD
regarding something of which you have no experience.


FUD it may very well be. Over twelve years ago I was invited to a
breakfast for IT types. (At the time I was involved with a small, but
growing IT consulting company.) The subject was use of offsite backup
maintenance, from a business standpoint.) The theme that was hammered
through out the conference, was that no business should enter into any
IT commitment that it cannot easily and quickly get out of. The very
survival of the business can be at stake. therefore plan B must be ready
to be implemented, almost instantly.


--
PeterN

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

| As always, you are entitled to your opinion, just don't spread FUD
| regarding something of which you have no experience.
|

It's up to you if you don't mind the rental deal,
but frankly I see your view as splitting hairs. Whether
you log in every time you use it or not, you have to
keep paying for a rental deal as long as you use the
software, and you have to allow some kind of Adobe
spyware in order to enforce that deal.

there is no spyware.

all it does is ping to verify you're a paying customer. it doesn't
track what you do.

as he said, don't spread fud when you have no clue what you're talking
about.

The whole point
of their scheme is to make it seem that the software is
an online service. It's good that using the software
doesn't necessarily depend on the Adobe site being up
in many cases, but that's hardly encouraging to me.
I only regret that so many people have accepted the
rental scheme. If people hadn't bought in they would
have had to have backtracked. Instead they've set
a precedent of sorts for other companies.

they didn't set the precedent.

the industry is moving to subscription based software and cloud access,
whether you like it or not.

On 2014-06-29 02:58:36 +0000, Tony Cooper said:

On Sat, 28 Jun 2014 19:30:04 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| Now Adobe has convinced a surprising number of customers
| to rent rather than buy, and has even got them to submit to
| forced online logins every time they want to use their software
| ... or rather, every time they want to use Adobe's software service.
|
| Get your facts right. There is no "forced online login every time they
| want to use their software....", or even "every time they want to use
| Adobe's software service." (WTF is Adobe's software service?)

http://4leet.com/adobe-creative-clou...loud-big-fail/

"But every other Adobe service that used Adobe's ID system was also
affected, as noted by The Register's Alistair Dibbs. At least one "national
[UK] newspaper" wasn't able to publish its Adobe DPS tablet edition on
Thursday because of the outage."

If you say you can use PS with Adobe's site down, I believe
you. But that doesn't seem to be the scenario with many
people who actually do use the CC services.

Your presumption is completely false. I have PS CC. The program is
installed on my computer. The images worked on with PS are on my
computer. No connection to the Internet is required for me to use PS
CC.

Periodically, when I am online, Adobe verifies my use. I don't have
to log in, though, because I logged in when first downloaded and
subsequent log-ins are automatic. Their site can be down for weeks
without affecting me.

If I discontinue paying Adobe, PS CC will remain on my computer but it
will be disabled. However, all of the images I've processed using PS
CC remain as edited on my computer. If I discontinue to subscribe, I
can re-edit those images using the PS version I owned before signing
up, but I can't use any tools that are in the PS CC version.

Though I wonder
why you would have gone in for this rental deal, when you already
had the latest real version of Photoshop, if you don't use any
of the online services. Are there new filters or some such that
are really worth the expense?

I didn't really gain anything because I owned CS6. CS6 (2014) has
added some minor features that may be useful to some people, but I
have no interest in them. Some of the new features are useful to
others, though.

I am guessing you meant CC 2014, not CS6 (2014) ;-)

I was "betting on the come". I figure either PS or LR will add some
feature that I do want, and if they do it in the next 60 months I'm
ahead of the game compared to upgrading.



| Given that, I would expect the price to start going up, since
| people are even more addicted to Adobe now than they were
| before. And this initial crop of renters is a self-selecting group
| of people who can be expected to think they need every upgrade,
| at almost any cost.

It's a chance to be taken.


--
Regards,

Savageduck