Sigma SD15 - why? But Fuji sensor sounds promising..

It all started with the SD9 - 3.4Mp.., then the SD10 - 4.6Mp, then the
SD14 - 4.6Mp... And now, continuing their ever upward progress..
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/news/news.asp?nID=3440

The SD15!! at...... 4.6Mp. Same sensor. Why, Sigma/Foveon? You've
had how many years now to extract more out of this sensor? Maybe you
should give up?

But maybe the new processing engine can do something about the slightly
twisted colours and jaundiced fleshtones. Maybe the noise (and general)
performance might be incrementally better/faster. But exactly the same
sensor, and no more resolution. Presumably it still has no a-a filter,
so the Sigma jaggies will still pretend to be detail. I wonder if they
will just recycle their old patched up sample images for the new camera?

At least the new Fuji sensor looks promising - it's nice to see them
acknowledge that the F20/30 series was about as good a sensor as they
have ever produced, and unlike Foveon they seem to be moving forward:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08092308fujifilm.asp

If they successfully extrapolate to a larger sensor... (O:

Mark Thomas wrote:
It all started with the SD9 - 3.4Mp.., then the SD10 - 4.6Mp, then the
SD14 - 4.6Mp... And now, continuing their ever upward progress..
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/news/news.asp?nID=3440

The SD15!! at...... 4.6Mp. Same sensor. Why, Sigma/Foveon? You've
had how many years now to extract more out of this sensor? Maybe you
should give up?

Stigma blew it and they're never going to recover. I've never seen a
Stigma DLSR on on the street. Or in a store.

At least the new Fuji sensor looks promising - it's nice to see them
acknowledge that the F20/30 series was about as good a sensor as they
have ever produced, and unlike Foveon they seem to be moving forward:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08092308fujifilm.asp

If they successfully extrapolate to a larger sensor... (O:

Well, it seems aimed at P&S/zlr's to start. Would be nice to see this
as about 10 - 12 Mpix in a 1.5x sensor for the S5 replacement. Perhaps
that is the game.



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"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
Mark Thomas wrote:
It all started with the SD9 - 3.4Mp.., then the SD10 - 4.6Mp, then the
SD14 - 4.6Mp... And now, continuing their ever upward progress..
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/news/news.asp?nID=3440

The SD15!! at...... 4.6Mp. Same sensor. Why, Sigma/Foveon? You've
had how many years now to extract more out of this sensor? Maybe you
should give up?

Stigma blew it and they're never going to recover. I've never seen a
Stigma DLSR on on the street. Or in a store.

The Gentec rep had an SD14 in the store, but we declined stocking them.

Spam This wrote:
"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
Mark Thomas wrote:
It all started with the SD9 - 3.4Mp.., then the SD10 - 4.6Mp, then the
SD14 - 4.6Mp... And now, continuing their ever upward progress..
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/news/news.asp?nID=3440

The SD15!! at...... 4.6Mp. Same sensor. Why, Sigma/Foveon? You've
had how many years now to extract more out of this sensor? Maybe you
should give up?
Stigma blew it and they're never going to recover. I've never seen a
Stigma DLSR on on the street. Or in a store.

The Gentec rep had an SD14 in the store, but we declined stocking them.

Even on consignment?


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
-- usenet posts from gmail.com and googlemail.com are filtered out.

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
Spam This wrote:
"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
Mark Thomas wrote:
It all started with the SD9 - 3.4Mp.., then the SD10 - 4.6Mp, then the
SD14 - 4.6Mp... And now, continuing their ever upward progress..
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/news/news.asp?nID=3440

The SD15!! at...... 4.6Mp. Same sensor. Why, Sigma/Foveon? You've
had how many years now to extract more out of this sensor? Maybe you
should give up?
Stigma blew it and they're never going to recover. I've never seen a
Stigma DLSR on on the street. Or in a store.

The Gentec rep had an SD14 in the store, but we declined stocking them.

Even on consignment?

Retailers seldom sell new merchandise on consignment. We looked at it, and
based on the fact in 4 years, nobody had ever asked about a Sigma dSLR or
even a film Sigma SLR camera

In article , Mark Thomas
wrote:

It all started with the SD9 - 3.4Mp.., then the SD10 - 4.6Mp,

the sd10 was also 3.4 mp. it had the exact same sensor as the sd9 but
with the addition of microlenses. however, that's when the deception
began and it was marketed as 10 megapixels.

then the
SD14 - 4.6Mp... And now, continuing their ever upward progress..
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/news/news.asp?nID=3440

The SD15!! at...... 4.6Mp. Same sensor. Why, Sigma/Foveon? You've
had how many years now to extract more out of this sensor? Maybe you
should give up?

i'm wondering how long it will be until they do give up. they can't be
making money on them.

But maybe the new processing engine can do something about the slightly
twisted colours and jaundiced fleshtones. Maybe the noise (and general)
performance might be incrementally better/faster. But exactly the same
sensor, and no more resolution. Presumably it still has no a-a filter,
so the Sigma jaggies will still pretend to be detail.

the people who buy them like the aliased jaggy look and blame the
photographer for getting the wrong colours. seriously.

I wonder if they
will just recycle their old patched up sample images for the new camera?

did you know that their sample images are photoshopped in some cases,
and sometimes significantly so?

At least the new Fuji sensor looks promising - it's nice to see them
acknowledge that the F20/30 series was about as good a sensor as they
have ever produced, and unlike Foveon they seem to be moving forward:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08092308fujifilm.asp

there is also the kodak sensor:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0706/07061401kodakhighsens.asp

nospam wrote:
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/news/news.asp?nID=3440

The SD15!! at...... 4.6Mp. Same sensor. Why, Sigma/Foveon? You've
had how many years now to extract more out of this sensor? Maybe you
should give up?

i'm wondering how long it will be until they do give up. they can't be
making money on them.

I guess they are making enough to keep foveon producing sensors, just
not doing any development...

But maybe the new processing engine can do something about the slightly
twisted colours and jaundiced fleshtones. Maybe the noise (and general)
performance might be incrementally better/faster. But exactly the same
sensor, and no more resolution. Presumably it still has no a-a filter,
so the Sigma jaggies will still pretend to be detail.

the people who buy them like the aliased jaggy look and blame the
photographer for getting the wrong colours. seriously.

Yes, I've noticed this. And I'll even admit that a tiny bit of added
yellow often helps fleshtones... But some of the Sigma tones are so
weirdly twisted that getting neutral colour is very difficult. And at
higher iso's? Not funny.


I wonder if they
will just recycle their old patched up sample images for the new camera?

did you know that their sample images are photoshopped in some cases,
and sometimes significantly so?

Yes, and I think that practice is disgraceful. It reflects very poorly
on Sigma that they don't believe sample images should be straight from
the camera.

At least the new Fuji sensor looks promising - it's nice to see them
acknowledge that the F20/30 series was about as good a sensor as they
have ever produced, and unlike Foveon they seem to be moving forward:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08092308fujifilm.asp

there is also the kodak sensor:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0706/07061401kodakhighsens.asp

Kodak seem to struggle to make low noise, high DR sensors, at least in
the lower end of the market.. (Which is where I shall probably remain..!)

Alan Browne wrote:
Mark Thomas wrote:
It all started with the SD9 - 3.4Mp.., then the SD10 - 4.6Mp, then the
SD14 - 4.6Mp... And now, continuing their ever upward progress..
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/news/news.asp?nID=3440

The SD15!! at...... 4.6Mp. Same sensor. Why, Sigma/Foveon? You've
had how many years now to extract more out of this sensor? Maybe you
should give up?

Stigma blew it and they're never going to recover. I've never seen a
Stigma DLSR on on the street. Or in a store.

Me neither. I do quite like the Foveon 'cleanness', but the lack of AA
is a big mistake, and I couldn't imagine using it as a people camera..

At least the new Fuji sensor looks promising - it's nice to see them
acknowledge that the F20/30 series was about as good a sensor as they
have ever produced, and unlike Foveon they seem to be moving forward:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08092308fujifilm.asp

If they successfully extrapolate to a larger sensor... (O:

Well, it seems aimed at P&S/zlr's to start. Would be nice to see this
as about 10 - 12 Mpix in a 1.5x sensor for the S5 replacement. Perhaps
that is the game.

Yes, Fuji are saying they won't use it for large sensors. But there is
a large gap between P&S/zlr/bridge cameras and APS-C - it's nbice to see
Fuji and the 4/3 crowd (eg Panasonic G1) addressing it.

I've been watching the 4/3 sensors very closely, and their high iso
performance has been steadily improving. Of course it will never match
an APS-C or FF sensor (as 35mm will never match MF..), but to me the
balance between portability and decent image quality (and maybe even a
decent evf) makes these cameras very tempting.. I think the next gen of
G1-ish cameras will be very interesting.

In article , Mark Thomas
wrote:

Me neither. I do quite like the Foveon 'cleanness', but the lack of AA
is a big mistake, and I couldn't imagine using it as a people camera..

You mean the fake sharpness? How about them Homer Simpson skin tones?

In article , Mark Thomas
wrote:

But maybe the new processing engine can do something about the slightly
twisted colours and jaundiced fleshtones. Maybe the noise (and general)
performance might be incrementally better/faster. But exactly the same
sensor, and no more resolution. Presumably it still has no a-a filter,
so the Sigma jaggies will still pretend to be detail.

the people who buy them like the aliased jaggy look and blame the
photographer for getting the wrong colours. seriously.

Yes, I've noticed this. And I'll even admit that a tiny bit of added
yellow often helps fleshtones... But some of the Sigma tones are so
weirdly twisted that getting neutral colour is very difficult. And at
higher iso's? Not funny.

due to the way the sensor works, getting accurate colour is actually
impossible. different input colours produce the same output colour.
plus, it has more noise than the same size bayer sensor.

I wonder if they
will just recycle their old patched up sample images for the new camera?

did you know that their sample images are photoshopped in some cases,
and sometimes significantly so?

Yes, and I think that practice is disgraceful. It reflects very poorly
on Sigma that they don't believe sample images should be straight from
the camera.

it's not all that surprising from a company that outright lies about
the pixel count.