a question of B/W film

There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
in the open and undeveloped under red light, Pan -
something I think ... anyone remember this? Does anyone
know if something close is still made? I know some
of Ansel's earliest work was done with it.

Thanks all,

Alex

Subject: a question of B/W film
From: "AArDvarK"
Date: 3/16/2004 1:30 AM Mountain Standard Time
Message-id: NWy5c.17190$Nj.5869@fed1read01


There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
in the open and undeveloped under red light, Pan -
something I think ... anyone remember this? Does anyone
know if something close is still made? I know some
of Ansel's earliest work was done with it.

Thanks all,

Alex


You are probably talking about Orthochromatic film. No, Kodak no longer makes
this film.

steve simmons

AArDvarK wrote:

There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
in the open and undeveloped under red light, Pan -
something I think ... anyone remember this? Does anyone
know if something close is still made? I know some
of Ansel's earliest work was done with it.


You mean orthochromatic film; it is sensitive only to blue and green
light. I believe Ilford still makes an ortho film, perhaps for graphic
arts use. The earliest emulsions were sensitive only to blue light and
were referred to as "color blind". Panchromatic film is sensitive to
the entire visible spectrum.

James Meckley

Check this link:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_pro...t_id=&pid=5495

Freestyle stocks an ortho film for graphic arts purposes...as the copy states,
it CAN be used as continuous tone film given the proper development technique.
I can't begin to guess what the ASA will be...extremely low number. My
experience is that these graphic arts films are coated on a thinner than usual
base material and that can be a bitch to handle in the darkroom. Still, the
price is right, so why not experiment?

argon

Argon3 wrote:
Check this link:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_pro...t_id=&pid=5495

Freestyle stocks an ortho film for graphic arts purposes...as the copy states,
it CAN be used as continuous tone film given the proper development technique.
I can't begin to guess what the ASA will be...extremely low number. My
experience is that these graphic arts films are coated on a thinner than usual
base material and that can be a bitch to handle in the darkroom. Still, the
price is right, so why not experiment?


Very low. Any one wanting to use a film like that might be interested in
this:

http://members.aol.com/fotodave/Articles/LC-1.html

Nick

Kodalith was red light safe. Don't know if they make it any more. I don't
think AA used that, though.

"AArDvarK" wrote in message
news:NWy5c.17190$Nj.5869@fed1read01...

There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
in the open and undeveloped under red light, Pan -
something I think ... anyone remember this? Does anyone
know if something close is still made? I know some
of Ansel's earliest work was done with it.

Thanks all,

Alex

Lith film is still sold (or was the last time I checked) but not by Kodak. I
bought some from Freestyle Sales a few years ago. The film that Ansel Adams
used in his early days wasn't lith film. I suspect Alex is thinking of
orthochromatic film, which is sensitive only to blue light and which Ansel
Adams did use in his early days (actually I think he used ortho plates
rather than film but perhaps both).

"MikeWhy" wrote in message
om...
Kodalith was red light safe. Don't know if they make it any more. I don't
think AA used that, though.

"AArDvarK" wrote in message
news:NWy5c.17190$Nj.5869@fed1read01...

There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
in the open and undeveloped under red light, Pan -
something I think ... anyone remember this? Does anyone
know if something close is still made? I know some
of Ansel's earliest work was done with it.

Thanks all,

Alex

"AArDvarK" wrote in message
news:NWy5c.17190$Nj.5869@fed1read01...

There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
in the open and undeveloped under red light, Pan -
something I think ... anyone remember this? Does anyone
know if something close is still made? I know some
of Ansel's earliest work was done with it.

Thanks all,

Alex


The last film of this type for general use was Kodak
Tri-X Ortho film which was discontinued about fifteen years
ago. Film must be sensitized to colors by the addition of
special dyes to the emulsion. The raw emulsion is sensitive
to blue and near ultra-violet only. By adding certain dyes
to the emulsion before coating, or treating the coated
emulsion with a solution of the dye, the color sensitivty
can be extended to green, or to yellow and red, or to
infra-red. Film which is sensitive only to blue light is
called "color blind" or "ordinary", film wich is sensitized
to green is called orthochromatic, and film which is
sensitized to red as well as blue and green is called
panchromatic. Panchromatic film was introduced about 1900
but orthochromatic film remainded pupular for decades
because it could be processed under a red safelight, because
it had better contrast than early pan film, and had somewhat
finer grain than early pan film. It was popular for press
photography because it tended to bring out skin texture,
which was often washed out by the flash-on-the-camera
technique common for press work. It was also popular for
male "character" portraits, again, because it tended to
exagerate skin texture and blemishes. Ortho film was also
standard for box cameras since the limited color response
tended to make the images look sharper, plus it could be
more easily developed at home, if desired.
Panchromatic film was improved slowly and since the late
1930s or early 1940s has
displaced ortho film for most uses.
Some ortho film is still made, mostly for lithographic
work, but I think Ilford still offers a normal contrast
ortho film in 35mm size.
While Tri-X Ortho was the last Kodak film offered at one
time every manufacturer made several ortho films of various
speeds and characteristics. Most of them disappeared from
the market decades ago.

--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

Richard Knoppow wrote:

"AArDvarK" wrote in message
news:NWy5c.17190$Nj.5869@fed1read01...

There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
in the open and undeveloped under red light, Pan -
something I think ... anyone remember this? Does anyone
know if something close is still made? I know some
of Ansel's earliest work was done with it.

Thanks all,

Alex


The last film of this type for general use was Kodak
Tri-X Ortho film which was discontinued about fifteen years
ago. Film must be sensitized to colors by the addition of
special dyes to the emulsion. The raw emulsion is sensitive
to blue and near ultra-violet only. By adding certain dyes
to the emulsion before coating, or treating the coated
emulsion with a solution of the dye, the color sensitivty
can be extended to green, or to yellow and red, or to
infra-red. Film which is sensitive only to blue light is
called "color blind" or "ordinary", film wich is sensitized
to green is called orthochromatic, and film which is
sensitized to red as well as blue and green is called
panchromatic. Panchromatic film was introduced about 1900
but orthochromatic film remainded pupular for decades
because it could be processed under a red safelight, because
it had better contrast than early pan film, and had somewhat
finer grain than early pan film. It was popular for press
photography because it tended to bring out skin texture,
which was often washed out by the flash-on-the-camera
technique common for press work. It was also popular for
male "character" portraits, again, because it tended to
exagerate skin texture and blemishes. Ortho film was also
standard for box cameras since the limited color response
tended to make the images look sharper, plus it could be
more easily developed at home, if desired.
Panchromatic film was improved slowly and since the late
1930s or early 1940s has
displaced ortho film for most uses.
Some ortho film is still made, mostly for lithographic
work, but I think Ilford still offers a normal contrast
ortho film in 35mm size.
While Tri-X Ortho was the last Kodak film offered at one
time every manufacturer made several ortho films of various
speeds and characteristics. Most of them disappeared from
the market decades ago.


To Richard's encyclopedic post I will add only the following: If the
original poster wanted ortho film so that it could be developed under a
red safelight, then ortho film it must be. However, if his/her goal was
to achieve the *effect* of ortho film, that can be accomplished with pan
film and a 44a filter.

James Meckley

.... and after huge searching on the subject on the 'net...
I couldn't find anything on Ortho, until you answered.
Thank you again Mr. Knoppow, much appreciated.

That is so sad. And I bet all these changes are made
strictly for the purpose of marketing ... not taking
into account how people actually feel about what
they use. Some of Ansel's images from the 20's and
30's are so sharp, contrasty and powerful you could
scratch the original print ... and your fingernails
would be torn off on the rock faces (as an impres-
sionary meaning).


Thanks again,
Alex

"Richard Knoppow" wrote in message news

"AArDvarK" wrote in message
news:NWy5c.17190$Nj.5869@fed1read01...

There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
in the open and undeveloped under red light, Pan -
something I think ... anyone remember this? Does anyone
know if something close is still made? I know some
of Ansel's earliest work was done with it.

Thanks all,

Alex


The last film of this type for general use was Kodak
Tri-X Ortho film which was discontinued about fifteen years
ago. Film must be sensitized to colors by the addition of
special dyes to the emulsion. The raw emulsion is sensitive
to blue and near ultra-violet only. By adding certain dyes
to the emulsion before coating, or treating the coated
emulsion with a solution of the dye, the color sensitivty
can be extended to green, or to yellow and red, or to
infra-red. Film which is sensitive only to blue light is
called "color blind" or "ordinary", film wich is sensitized
to green is called orthochromatic, and film which is
sensitized to red as well as blue and green is called
panchromatic. Panchromatic film was introduced about 1900
but orthochromatic film remainded pupular for decades
because it could be processed under a red safelight, because
it had better contrast than early pan film, and had somewhat
finer grain than early pan film. It was popular for press
photography because it tended to bring out skin texture,
which was often washed out by the flash-on-the-camera
technique common for press work. It was also popular for
male "character" portraits, again, because it tended to
exagerate skin texture and blemishes. Ortho film was also
standard for box cameras since the limited color response
tended to make the images look sharper, plus it could be
more easily developed at home, if desired.
Panchromatic film was improved slowly and since the late
1930s or early 1940s has
displaced ortho film for most uses.
Some ortho film is still made, mostly for lithographic
work, but I think Ilford still offers a normal contrast
ortho film in 35mm size.
While Tri-X Ortho was the last Kodak film offered at one
time every manufacturer made several ortho films of various
speeds and characteristics. Most of them disappeared from
the market decades ago.

--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA