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  #1  
Old February 28th 04, 08:56 AM
Bugs Bunny
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Default Asking advice

Group,

Been all my life fascinated by Hassy but never had cash reserve to buy one.

So this has led me to question very similar like Hamlet

a) buy ARAX88 (Kiev) model with lenses I consider fullfilling the basic
photographic subjects - pets, persons, scenery, architecture

b) or tighten the belt one notch more and save save save and buy
refurb Hassy 500CM or similar and couple lenses

Advice is asked - to B) or not to B)

Yours truely

/Jukka aka Bugs
  #2  
Old February 28th 04, 09:47 AM
Roman J. Rohleder
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Default Asking advice

Bugs Bunny schrieb:

So this has led me to question very similar like Hamlet


a) buy ARAX88 (Kiev) model with lenses I consider fullfilling the basic
photographic subjects - pets, persons, scenery, architecture


I am using a Wiese K88 Six in itīs sixth year. And I am _very_
satisfied with it. And Georg of Arax has earned himself a good fame
within us Sovkam users, but his company is little more than a year old
by now.

The "Kiev bargain" is not the camera, itīs the system and the lenses.
You gain access to a wide range of affordable lenses, to accessoires
and stuff you will never be able to afford if made in Goeteborg.

A Shift lens for less than 400USD? A 30mm for 300USD? A groundglass
for 30EUR? A spot meter prism?

My favourite is using the Arsat PCS C 4,5/55, I recently got a
groundglass for improved image control.

The late Zeiss Jena lenses and the current line of Zavod Arsenal glass
is fine, some lenses are just excellent, even if you donīt take the
price tag into account.

Do you depend on the magazines (will you change films often or use bw
and slide or CN parallel?), do you need a look-a-Hassy for your ego or
a functional camera? If the latter, a Kiev60 might be better suited.
Itīs mechanically more sound and further developed..

Yours truely

/Jukka aka Bugs


Gruss, Roman
  #3  
Old February 28th 04, 10:42 AM
MikeWhy
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Default Asking advice


"Bugs Bunny" wrote in message
...
Group,

Been all my life fascinated by Hassy but never had cash reserve to buy

one.

So this has led me to question very similar like Hamlet

a) buy ARAX88 (Kiev) model with lenses I consider fullfilling the basic
photographic subjects - pets, persons, scenery, architecture

b) or tighten the belt one notch more and save save save and buy
refurb Hassy 500CM or similar and couple lenses

Advice is asked - to B) or not to B)


I say (C): get something you can afford to buy good glass for. Kiev and
Arsenal are crap shoots in regards build and optics quality. Life is too
short to have to go back to reshoot, and you will, once you get the better
lens.

  #4  
Old February 28th 04, 10:57 AM
Roman J. Rohleder
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Default Asking advice

"MikeWhy" schrieb:

I say (C): get something you can afford to buy good glass for. Kiev and
Arsenal are crap shoots in regards build and optics quality.


Have you ever handled a Zavod Arsenal (aka "Kiev") lens? What do you
base your claim "crap optics" on?

Life is too
short to have to go back to reshoot, and you will, once you get the better
lens.


Life is too short to miss a shot because you canīt afford the gear.

Gruss, Roman
  #5  
Old February 28th 04, 11:44 AM
Q.G. de Bakker
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Default Asking advice

Roman J. Rohleder wrote:

[...]
Life is too short to miss a shot because you canīt afford the gear.


Life is too short too to be wasted being dissatisfied with every shot you
haven't missed because you bought the cheap gear, knowing that if only you
had been brave enough to buy the right gear...




  #6  
Old February 28th 04, 11:45 AM
Q.G. de Bakker
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Default Asking advice

Bugs Bunny wrote:

Been all my life fascinated by Hassy but never had cash reserve to buy

one.

So this has led me to question very similar like Hamlet

a) buy ARAX88 (Kiev) model with lenses I consider fullfilling the basic
photographic subjects - pets, persons, scenery, architecture

b) or tighten the belt one notch more and save save save and buy
refurb Hassy 500CM or similar and couple lenses

Advice is asked - to B) or not to B)


What do you want, strive to make the best photos you can, or save a penny or
two?


  #7  
Old February 28th 04, 12:17 PM
Stacey
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Default Asking advice

Q.G. de Bakker wrote:

Roman J. Rohleder wrote:

[...]
Life is too short to miss a shot because you canīt afford the gear.


Life is too short too to be wasted being dissatisfied with every shot you
haven't missed because you bought the cheap gear,


Why would they be dissatisfied? The optics seem fine to me.

knowing that if only you
had been brave enough to buy the right gear...


Wow so all I have to do is "Be brave" and a schneider 55mm shift lens is
going to show up in the mail? Or is it that money starts growing on the
trees out side? :-)

How many shift lenses have you been "brave enough to buy" for your blad?
Spring for the Zeiss 30mm fisheye yet or are you going to toss back the
sour grapes -It's not a very useful lens- when you've never used one?

I could easily afford a -very used- 500c and a couple of lenses (50 and
150), but that would be it as far as a len budget goes and doubt I could
afford even the 40mm much less anything else.
--

Stacey
  #8  
Old February 28th 04, 12:20 PM
Stacey
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Default Asking advice

Q.G. de Bakker wrote:

Bugs Bunny wrote:

Been all my life fascinated by Hassy but never had cash reserve to buy

one.

So this has led me to question very similar like Hamlet

a) buy ARAX88 (Kiev) model with lenses I consider fullfilling the basic
photographic subjects - pets, persons, scenery, architecture

b) or tighten the belt one notch more and save save save and buy
refurb Hassy 500CM or similar and couple lenses

Advice is asked - to B) or not to B)


What do you want, strive to make the best photos you can, or save a penny
or two?


So for $0.02 I can trade my kiev gear, lens for lens, for blad ones now? I
think it's more like I'd have to add about $15,000 to get the 'blad
equivalent of my kiev stuff. Unless the 'blad shift lenses, fisheye, ultra
wides etc have gotten under $500 a piece?
--

Stacey
  #9  
Old February 28th 04, 12:40 PM
Stacey
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Default Asking advice

Bugs Bunny wrote:

Group,

Been all my life fascinated by Hassy but never had cash reserve to buy
one.

So this has led me to question very similar like Hamlet

a) buy ARAX88 (Kiev) model with lenses I consider fullfilling the basic
photographic subjects - pets, persons, scenery, architecture

b) or tighten the belt one notch more and save save save and buy
refurb Hassy 500CM or similar and couple lenses



Depends. Are you going to be happy with the normal lens and maybe a 50mm or
a 150mm and nothing else? The "problem" with buying the blad isn't the cost
of the camera, it's everything else that goes with it. Even an extention
tube for a 'blad is going to cost more than another lens for a kiev.

I have several kievs and think the K-60 is the simpler, more reliable of the
2 cameras. That said I just got an ARAX K88 that I special ordered with
their titanium foil shutter, in the twist-click P-6 mount and 3 rebuilt old
type backs and it's smooth as silk. I also have a Hartblei 1006c (88 in P-6
mount) that was converted to use 'blad backs and this new ARAX is just as
smooth.

Once you have a reliable P-6 body, it opens up a world of cheap optics that
cover anything you could ever imagine doing. Also haveing a focal plane
shutter allows you to "hack" different lenses onto the camera like
enlarging lenses for macro work, old barrel lenses etc.

http://www.geocities.com/kievgurl/tessar_150mm.html

I adapted a 35mm OM macro lens to mine and it works great.

http://www.geocities.com/kievgurl/hack.html

Also the lenses are faster than the blad ones and you only have one shutter
to worry about instead of each lens haveing a different shutter that may or
may not be the same as the others.

Sure the kievs aren't the best build camera on the planet, probably one of
the worst but they -can- be made to work well. For someone on a limited
budget allow you access to styles of optics you'd -never- be able to use on
another system. I also want to add someone thinking about these should have
-some- skills at doing minor adjustments. If you don't know which end of a
screwdriver to use, get something else.

http://www.geocities.com/kievgurl

http://www.geocities.com/kievgurls

--

Stacey, the Kiev user POV
  #10  
Old February 28th 04, 01:18 PM
Nick Zentena
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Default Asking advice

Bugs Bunny wrote:
Group,

Been all my life fascinated by Hassy but never had cash reserve to buy one.

So this has led me to question very similar like Hamlet

a) buy ARAX88 (Kiev) model with lenses I consider fullfilling the basic
photographic subjects - pets, persons, scenery, architecture

b) or tighten the belt one notch more and save save save and buy
refurb Hassy 500CM or similar and couple lenses

Advice is asked - to B) or not to B)



C? The Arax Kiev 60.

If you can live with a limited lens set then go with a 500. If you want
quite a few lenses and various other items then the Arax will be a better
long term choice.

Nick
 




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