one-shot fixer for paper

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:03:41 -0500, "Ken
Hart" wrote:


While I don't share Mr Erlick's dislike of acid/smells in the darkroom ("I
love the smell of RA-4 in the morning... It's smells like... photography..."
paraphrase from 'Apocalyse Now'), his website is filled to the rafters with
many good ideas. After you've perused his articles, don't forget to check
out his portraits. It's time well spent.




June 22, 2007, from Lloyd Erlick,

Gosh, thanks, that's enough of a reason to
get busy using up the quarter kilogram of
Glycin I just overpaid for ...

regards,
--le

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 06:12:01 -0700, Steven
Woody wrote:

yes, i do like his portraits. i just can not image how can he pour
solution out of his singal tray without using a finger to keep paper
from coming out as well as solutions. can you understand?


June 22, 2007, from Lloyd Erlick,

Try it with a scrap print and plain water. As
long as any part of the paper contacts the
'dry' part of the tray bottom as it drains,
it will stay in place.

It's actually very difficult to get the paper
to slop out while draining the tray.

Sometimes a sheet will climb part way up one
of the sides of the tray when I drain it.
That means I've poured too fast and abruptly.
It's easy to correct once the tray is full of
fluid again. Just slosh it about gently and
it will slide down. I've never creased or
damaged one this way.

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
website: www.heylloyd.com
telephone: 416-686-0326
email:
________________________________
--

On Jun 22, 6:12 am, Steven Woody wrote:

yes, i do like his portraits. i just can not image how can he pour
solution out of his singal tray without using a finger to keep paper
from coming out as well as solutions. can you understand?


Mr. Erlick is correct. The paper remains with the tray. I also
process single tray. While he saves his chemistry I pour mine
down the drain. My working strengths are very dilute and of
minimal solution volume. Dan

On Jun 20, 2:34 pm, Lloyd Erlick wrote:

Acid is unnecessary, and things are easier
without it. In a normal, regular, "ordinary"
black and white darkroom, such as mine and I
bet lots of peoples', acid should be
considered a material for specialized
processes, not for regular ordinary day to
day film and FB or RC print processing.

regards, --le
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
website:www.heylloyd.com
telephone: 416-686-0326
email:


My prints and film go directly from the developer to the
very dilute one-shot fix. Many years ago there was an acid
fix and an acid fix was necessary. Kodak came up with the
10 second acid stop; between the alkaline developer and
acid fix. The sole need of an acid stop is the following
acid fix. The very short acid stop imparts to the film
or paper a superficial acid character conditioning
it for an acid fix. A neutral or alkaline fixer does
not need preconditioned acidic paper or film.
Use a water stop.

I don't use a stop of any sort and wonder if a stop of any
sort is needed when using other than an acid fix. Stories
of possible stain from developer carried forward to the fix
and dichroic fog are seen. How though is unexposed
emulsion silver expected to be developed by that
carry forward developer? Perhaps there is some
truth to the cautions issued.

For myself I bypass those issues with the use of a
very dilute one-shot fix. I'm not stopping. Dan

n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com


I don't use a stop of any sort ... Stories
of possible stain ... How [?]...
I ... use of a ... very dilute one-shot fix.

I find fixer that has done a few prints can stain, fixer
that is fresh never seems to stain.

When going from fix straight to Se toner the fix must
be _very_ fresh. Old fix or partially fixed
paper [usually get both together] and the paper
stains a light purple/brown. No stray silver allowed
in the paper.

It may be that with a 1-s fix that a stop bath is
not needed?

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index.htm

Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:

It may be that with a 1-s fix that a stop bath is
not needed?

As I mentioned a long time ago in this thread, the main purposes of a stop
batch is to stop development quickly, so that prints developed by
inspection don't develop further and become darker than expected
and to prevent developer contamination of the fixer.

Anyone who spends the time to develop pritns by inspection can easily
learn to compensate for the extra development in the fixer, if it's
noticable at all,

After all, we all learned to compensate for any changes in intensity and
contrast due to the print drying.

The second reason is totally unecessary if you are using one shot fixer,
any developer in it goes down the drain and does not contaminate the
stock solution or the next print/roll of film.

You could just think of it as a two step monobath. :-)

Geoff.



--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

It's certainly possible to use a straight sodium thiosulfate
fixer one shot, repeated use is the reason that all the
other "stuff" is included in standard fixer formulas. I
would try not to mix more than needed for a single session
since the keeping qualities of such a mix are debatable.

One shot stop bath, if you are using a one shot
developer and stop bath as well you can probably skip the
acid and use water, just be sure to use fresh water for each
print or you'll quickly be trying to use diluted developer
to stop development! (I did by accident at one time and the
effect, while interesting, is not what you are seeking.)
Acid stop baths have the sometimes desirable quality of
actually stopping development rather than just slowing it
down and rinsing off the carryover paper developer.
darkroommike

Steven Woody wrote:
serched the net and posted questions on this groups, but i've not yet
very clear on one of my questons: how do i mix and use one-shot none-
acid none-hardener sodium thiosulfate fixer for print paper.

1, i want to use sodium thiosulfate only. is it okay?
2, and, for its capacity and usage, i want to know if my below
thinkings are right:

because i found an article on the net which said that per liter of
Kodak acid hardening fixer can process 14,500 sq cm, that is 2274.5
in^2. i think, in one liter of such solution, there are 240 grams of
sodium thiosulfate. so, i deduced that per gram of sodium thiosulfate
can do 9.365 in^2. so, if i use 120 grams of sodium thiosulfate to
make a 500ml solution, which should do 120*9.365 in^2, i.e. 14 sheets
of 8x10 papers which is a reasonable amount of papers i ususally run
in a single session. and, because 120grams in 500ml solution has same
concentration compared to original Kodak F-5 formula, so i think i
don't need to alter fixing time.

how about this? and, because there is no acid in the fixer, can i
still use acid stop bath without run in trouble? or, a step further,
is it necessary to use the stop bath?

thanks for any inputs.

-
woody

"Lloyd Erlick" Lloyd at @the-wire. dot com wrote

get busy using up the quarter kilogram of
Glycin I just overpaid for ...

GAF-130 will use it up, though slowly at about 3gm/l of
1:3 working.

I have been doing some printing with MGIV FB Warm Tone
in GAF-130 [the straight formula with the hydroquinone]
and selenium toning.

Great combination ... very deep shadows, paper response
doesn't even start to shoulder at 2.5OD.

I have found warm-tone paper gives awful toning results
with some developers. The worst I have found so far
is Gevaert-262, a hydroquinone-only warm tone developer.

I have put up some paper response curves for GAF-130 glycin/MQ
developer and FBWT on the Darkroom Automation web site in the
support section.
http://www.darkroomautomation.com/support/index.htm

Zone system and HD graphs a
http://www.darkroomautomation.com/su...130se-zone.jpg
http://www.darkroomautomation.com/su...ta130se-hd.jpg

The graphs cut-off at 2.5OD, after 2.3OD measurement is pretty
iffy as a tiny small dust mote on the paper can drop the OD reading
by 0.10.

The paper speed graphs/charts/spread sheets are used with Darkroom
Automation products. The Darkroom Automation system allows you to
place any point in the image at any desired paper tone, determine
paper grade, base exposure and dodge and burn exposures, automatically
generate test prints, etc., etc..
http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index.htm

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation
A Unit of Cleveland Engineering Design, LLC
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com

On Jun 23, 5:18 pm, "Nicholas O. Lindan" wrote:



I don't use a stop of any sort ... Stories
of possible stain ... How [?]...
I ... use of a ... very dilute one-shot fix.

I find fixer that has done a few prints can stain, fixer
that is fresh never seems to stain.


Not that it is germane but from where are those
stained prints comming? If directly from a usual strength
developer to an alkaline fix I'd think the stain due to some
interaction within the fixer and the built up carried forward
developer. Beware of stained prints for lack of a proper
stop. Now and then I read that caution but never
the explanation.
Developer build up in the fixer is not an issue with
one-shot fixer. For that matter neither is silver build up
an issue. In fact a print through the 1% S. thio. fix and
the solution volume needed for processing a size print
leaves extremely little silver on a volume basis. So
little in fact that a second fix makes no sense.


When going from fix straight to Se toner the fix must
be _very_ fresh.

It may be that with a 1-s fix that a stop bath is
not needed?

Nicholas O. Lindan


I work with chemistry at more than the usual dilutions;
developer and fixer. A Dektol equivalent would be 1:7 +/-;
the S. thio. anhydrous, a 1:15 dilution of the usual 160
gram per liter formula. So I have an advantage; very
little developer is carried forward into a very dilute
comparatively voluminous fixer.
A variation might be the more usual strength developer
and a second tray for the one-shot fixer. Either way, one
tray or two, developer, one-shot fixer, selenium toner.
May work. Dan