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Canon S-120 versus Canon G7X



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 21st 16, 08:55 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Mort[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 396
Default Canon S-120 versus Canon G7X

Hi,

I would appreciate any comments about this.

I have been using a pair of Canon S-120 pocket cameras for casual and
semi-serious picture taking, especially on the road. I am a long-term
amateur , who remembers working with Kodachrome at ASA 10 and then 25.

I was recently gifted a Canon G7X, which although small is certainly
larger than the S-120. It is said to have a sensor made by Sony that is
larger than that in the S-120 and supposedly allowing sharper images and
better highlight detail.

Scientist that I am, I did some parallel tests under several conditions:
daylight, indoors, flash, distance shots, close-us, etc.. I shoot best
quality JPEG.

I then carefully viewed the images, both on my H.D. screen and with 8x10
prints, utilizing a hand magnifier where necessary.

I realize the limitations of testing with a series of only one each, but
there is no way that I could test 10 samples of each camera.

In any event, I found no difference in sharpness, color rendition,
contrast range, and highlight details , between the two. Isn't the
camera with a larger and supposedly superior sensor supposed to give
better results? Are other factors, such as lens quality and software in
camera also of major importance?

Thanks.

Mort Linder

  #2  
Old May 21st 16, 09:52 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,487
Default Canon S-120 versus Canon G7X

On 2016-05-21 19:55:42 +0000, Mort said:

Hi,

I would appreciate any comments about this.

I have been using a pair of Canon S-120 pocket cameras for casual and
semi-serious picture taking, especially on the road. I am a long-term
amateur , who remembers working with Kodachrome at ASA 10 and then 25.

I was recently gifted a Canon G7X, which although small is certainly
larger than the S-120. It is said to have a sensor made by Sony that is
larger than that in the S-120 and supposedly allowing sharper images
and better highlight detail.

Scientist that I am, I did some parallel tests under several
conditions: daylight, indoors, flash, distance shots, close-us, etc.. I
shoot best quality JPEG.

I then carefully viewed the images, both on my H.D. screen and with
8x10 prints, utilizing a hand magnifier where necessary.

I realize the limitations of testing with a series of only one each,
but there is no way that I could test 10 samples of each camera.


There are issues with your test. To start with you are using JPEG for
making the comparison and for 1/1.7" or 1" sensors, regardless of size,
the differences are pretty much going to be neutralized by in-camera
JPEG processing, and shot for shot I doubt that you would be able to
find much difference between the JPEGs, especially when comparing 8x10
prints. The S-120 was a good quality Canon compact with RAW capability,
so is the G7X. I also have a Cano G11, which uses a 10MP sensor of the
same size as your S-120, and if you threw that into your test I doubt
that you would find much difference between the JPEGs from the three
cameras.

In any event, I found no difference in sharpness, color rendition,
contrast range, and highlight details , between the two. Isn't the
camera with a larger and supposedly superior sensor supposed to give
better results? Are other factors, such as lens quality and software in
camera also of major importance?


Your choice of subject and shooting/lighting environment with those two
cameras are only going to produce subtle differences with JPEGs,
particularly if you didn't use any of the added features of the G7X
which would/should emphasize some differences between the JPEG product
of the two cameras. So, yes, there are other factors in play, and the
best way to make a true comparison is to compare RAW (CR2) files. If
you do that the problem you will have is further disappointment since
the unprocessed RAW files initially will probably not look to your eye
as good as the SOOC JPEGs. The other factor is your familiarity with
the S-120.

For what it is worth, they are both capable and pocketable compact
cameras, and the G7X should have a slight edge in higher resolution,
lower light, shooting at higher ISO, and producing larger prints, but
not by much. I would just start using the G7X more, and see where the
added features start benefiting your shots.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #3  
Old May 21st 16, 10:27 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
newshound
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 458
Default Canon S-120 versus Canon G7X

On 5/21/2016 9:52 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2016-05-21 19:55:42 +0000, Mort said:

Hi,

I would appreciate any comments about this.

I have been using a pair of Canon S-120 pocket cameras for casual and
semi-serious picture taking, especially on the road. I am a long-term
amateur , who remembers working with Kodachrome at ASA 10 and then 25.

I was recently gifted a Canon G7X, which although small is certainly
larger than the S-120. It is said to have a sensor made by Sony that
is larger than that in the S-120 and supposedly allowing sharper
images and better highlight detail.

Scientist that I am, I did some parallel tests under several
conditions: daylight, indoors, flash, distance shots, close-us, etc..
I shoot best quality JPEG.

I then carefully viewed the images, both on my H.D. screen and with
8x10 prints, utilizing a hand magnifier where necessary.

I realize the limitations of testing with a series of only one each,
but there is no way that I could test 10 samples of each camera.


There are issues with your test. To start with you are using JPEG for
making the comparison and for 1/1.7" or 1" sensors, regardless of size,
the differences are pretty much going to be neutralized by in-camera
JPEG processing, and shot for shot I doubt that you would be able to
find much difference between the JPEGs, especially when comparing 8x10
prints. The S-120 was a good quality Canon compact with RAW capability,
so is the G7X. I also have a Cano G11, which uses a 10MP sensor of the
same size as your S-120, and if you threw that into your test I doubt
that you would find much difference between the JPEGs from the three
cameras.

In any event, I found no difference in sharpness, color rendition,
contrast range, and highlight details , between the two. Isn't the
camera with a larger and supposedly superior sensor supposed to give
better results? Are other factors, such as lens quality and software
in camera also of major importance?


Your choice of subject and shooting/lighting environment with those two
cameras are only going to produce subtle differences with JPEGs,
particularly if you didn't use any of the added features of the G7X
which would/should emphasize some differences between the JPEG product
of the two cameras. So, yes, there are other factors in play, and the
best way to make a true comparison is to compare RAW (CR2) files. If you
do that the problem you will have is further disappointment since the
unprocessed RAW files initially will probably not look to your eye as
good as the SOOC JPEGs. The other factor is your familiarity with the
S-120.

For what it is worth, they are both capable and pocketable compact
cameras, and the G7X should have a slight edge in higher resolution,
lower light, shooting at higher ISO, and producing larger prints, but
not by much. I would just start using the G7X more, and see where the
added features start benefiting your shots.


I have a G10 as well as several earlier Canon compacts, the main thing
it gives you is a hot shoe, RAW, and a little more control (plus it
looks a bit more professional). The sensor is still pretty small (don't
have the dimensions to hand). I was interested to see that Canon
actually decreased the pixel count between the G10 and the G11,
presumably to improve the noise at high ISO.

To increase the quality, you really do have to increase the sensor size.
I'd strongly recommend Fuji X cameras, the body of the smaller ones is
not much different to the Canon G series (although inevitably the lenses
are larger).
  #4  
Old May 21st 16, 10:56 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Me
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 470
Default Canon S-120 versus Canon G7X

On 22/05/2016 07:55, Mort wrote:
Hi,

I would appreciate any comments about this.

I have been using a pair of Canon S-120 pocket cameras for casual and
semi-serious picture taking, especially on the road. I am a long-term
amateur , who remembers working with Kodachrome at ASA 10 and then 25.

I was recently gifted a Canon G7X, which although small is certainly
larger than the S-120. It is said to have a sensor made by Sony that is
larger than that in the S-120 and supposedly allowing sharper images and
better highlight detail.

Scientist that I am, I did some parallel tests under several conditions:
daylight, indoors, flash, distance shots, close-us, etc.. I shoot best
quality JPEG.

I then carefully viewed the images, both on my H.D. screen and with 8x10
prints, utilizing a hand magnifier where necessary.

It really shouldn't be necessary to use a hand magnifier. If your
vision needs correction, wear glasses. If I had a photo on display and
someone wanted to look at it using a hand magnifier, I'd think it was a
bit nuts.
10x8 prints compared - with original images being 12 megapixels and 20
megapixels, then printed at (probably) around 300 pixels per inch,
you're only "seeing" about 7 or 8 megapixels.
On an HD screen you're only seeing about 2 megapixels, if you want to
compare the two side by side on screen, then you're going to have to
view at different output sizes if viewing "actual pixels", or scale one
or the other or both if you want to see them at the same output size.

Even if you were looking for differences and all other things were equal
between the cameras, then there's only about 30% difference in linear
resolution, it should be visible (just) in a real photo at an
appropriately large size, but it won't be a big difference.

I realize the limitations of testing with a series of only one each, but
there is no way that I could test 10 samples of each camera.

In any event, I found no difference in sharpness, color rendition,
contrast range, and highlight details , between the two. Isn't the
camera with a larger and supposedly superior sensor supposed to give
better results? Are other factors, such as lens quality and software in
camera also of major importance?

Thanks.

Mort Linder


  #5  
Old May 22nd 16, 01:36 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Mort[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 396
Default Canon S-120 versus Canon G7X

Thanks to Duck, newshound, and "me" for the very interesting replies.
Living in a suburban area where I have no photographer friends, I get my
info from this nice newsgroup and from some reliable internet
literature. My vision is OK including close-ups, but I occasionally use
a magnifier just to be sure.

As I mentioned previously,I use best quality JPEG and work with Picasa
for many reasons, perhaps related to my being 87 years old, and no
longer willing to carry the 14 pounds of SLR bodies and lenses that I
used to. Nor am I in a position to buy a small Fuji mirrorless body and
a new set of lenses.

Many of my well-educated friends take pictures with their cellphones,
and are happy with fuzzy approximations of detail. I hope that I never
reach that stage.

By being careful with my picture taking, I can get good images and
prints up to 8x10", even after modest cropping, and that is all that I
currently need.

I still have some lovely 16x20" enlargements that were made decades ago
from my Kodachrome slides. That was another world altogether.

Again, my sincere thanks,

Mort Linder


Savageduck wrote:
On 2016-05-21 19:55:42 +0000, Mort said:

Hi,

I would appreciate any comments about this.

I have been using a pair of Canon S-120 pocket cameras for casual and
semi-serious picture taking, especially on the road. I am a long-term
amateur , who remembers working with Kodachrome at ASA 10 and then 25.

I was recently gifted a Canon G7X, which although small is certainly
larger than the S-120. It is said to have a sensor made by Sony that
is larger than that in the S-120 and supposedly allowing sharper
images and better highlight detail.

Scientist that I am, I did some parallel tests under several
conditions: daylight, indoors, flash, distance shots, close-us, etc..
I shoot best quality JPEG.

I then carefully viewed the images, both on my H.D. screen and with
8x10 prints, utilizing a hand magnifier where necessary.

I realize the limitations of testing with a series of only one each,
but there is no way that I could test 10 samples of each camera.


There are issues with your test. To start with you are using JPEG for
making the comparison and for 1/1.7" or 1" sensors, regardless of size,
the differences are pretty much going to be neutralized by in-camera
JPEG processing, and shot for shot I doubt that you would be able to
find much difference between the JPEGs, especially when comparing 8x10
prints. The S-120 was a good quality Canon compact with RAW capability,
so is the G7X. I also have a Cano G11, which uses a 10MP sensor of the
same size as your S-120, and if you threw that into your test I doubt
that you would find much difference between the JPEGs from the three
cameras.

In any event, I found no difference in sharpness, color rendition,
contrast range, and highlight details , between the two. Isn't the
camera with a larger and supposedly superior sensor supposed to give
better results? Are other factors, such as lens quality and software
in camera also of major importance?


Your choice of subject and shooting/lighting environment with those two
cameras are only going to produce subtle differences with JPEGs,
particularly if you didn't use any of the added features of the G7X
which would/should emphasize some differences between the JPEG product
of the two cameras. So, yes, there are other factors in play, and the
best way to make a true comparison is to compare RAW (CR2) files. If you
do that the problem you will have is further disappointment since the
unprocessed RAW files initially will probably not look to your eye as
good as the SOOC JPEGs. The other factor is your familiarity with the
S-120.

For what it is worth, they are both capable and pocketable compact
cameras, and the G7X should have a slight edge in higher resolution,
lower light, shooting at higher ISO, and producing larger prints, but
not by much. I would just start using the G7X more, and see where the
added features start benefiting your shots.



  #6  
Old May 22nd 16, 05:20 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Fred McKenzie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 214
Default Canon S-120 versus Canon G7X

In article , Mort wrote:

By being careful with my picture taking, I can get good images and
prints up to 8x10", even after modest cropping, and that is all that I
currently need.


Mort-

It is impressive how much digital cameras have advanced in a relatively
short period of time. I think the technology has passed the point where
it needs to be for casual photography.

With one of my early cameras, I found that a one megapixel image would
produce a reasonable 8" X 10" photo. For the same dots-per-inch, a 10
megapixel image would produce a reasonable 25" X 30" photo and a 40
megapixel image would produce a 50" X 60" photo.

Since you view larger photos from a greater distance, they could be even
larger for the same dots-per-inch. In other words, either of your
cameras might produce a photo that could be used for a billboard!

I have a Canon G11. When I "upgraded" to the G1X, there was no
significant improvement until I tried cropping a face out of a crowd.
The G1X has a few more megapixels and probably a sharper lens. I think
you will find the same relationship between your S-120 and G7X.

Fred
  #7  
Old May 22nd 16, 05:27 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Fred McKenzie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 214
Default Canon S-120 versus Canon G7X

In article ,
Fred McKenzie wrote:

Since you view larger photos from a greater distance, they could be even
larger for the same dots-per-inch.


That would be larger for FEWER dots-per-inch!

Fred
  #8  
Old May 22nd 16, 08:16 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Mort[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 396
Default Canon S-120 versus Canon G7X

Hi Fred,

I am grateful to you for your comments.

Digital photography, and digital music recording, have indeed progressed
quite rapidly. I clearly remember Kodachrome 10 going up to ASA 25,and
it was a big deal. Younger photographers do not realize the anguish and
uncertainty that occurred when a shoot on Kodachrome was sent to Kodak,
and one had to wait 10-14 days for the slides to come back.Likewise,
going from my 28 pound Revox tape recorder to a pocket sized digital
recorder was a step toward musical heaven.

I am now content that my newly gifted Canon G7X and my pocketable Canon
S-120 are both reliable and meet my current needs.

Mort Linder

Fred McKenzie wrote:
In article , Mort wrote:

By being careful with my picture taking, I can get good images and
prints up to 8x10", even after modest cropping, and that is all that I
currently need.


Mort-

It is impressive how much digital cameras have advanced in a relatively
short period of time. I think the technology has passed the point where
it needs to be for casual photography.

With one of my early cameras, I found that a one megapixel image would
produce a reasonable 8" X 10" photo. For the same dots-per-inch, a 10
megapixel image would produce a reasonable 25" X 30" photo and a 40
megapixel image would produce a 50" X 60" photo.

Since you view larger photos from a greater distance, they could be even
larger for the same dots-per-inch. In other words, either of your
cameras might produce a photo that could be used for a billboard!

I have a Canon G11. When I "upgraded" to the G1X, there was no
significant improvement until I tried cropping a face out of a crowd.
The G1X has a few more megapixels and probably a sharper lens. I think
you will find the same relationship between your S-120 and G7X.

Fred


  #9  
Old May 22nd 16, 10:06 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
newshound
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 458
Default Canon S-120 versus Canon G7X

On 5/22/2016 8:16 PM, Mort wrote:
Hi Fred,

I am grateful to you for your comments.

Digital photography, and digital music recording, have indeed progressed
quite rapidly. I clearly remember Kodachrome 10 going up to ASA 25,and
it was a big deal. Younger photographers do not realize the anguish and
uncertainty that occurred when a shoot on Kodachrome was sent to Kodak,
and one had to wait 10-14 days for the slides to come back.Likewise,
going from my 28 pound Revox tape recorder to a pocket sized digital
recorder was a step toward musical heaven.

I am now content that my newly gifted Canon G7X and my pocketable Canon
S-120 are both reliable and meet my current needs.

Mort Linder


Mort

The thing I *don't* like about the S-120 is the lack of viewfinder. I
still occasionally use an even more humble Canon viewfinder compact. In
the UK it was called the Ixus 850 IS, I think it had a different
designation in the US.

I don't go back to 10 ASA but I started shooting on Kodachrome II,
sometimes exposing for several seconds in gloomy English weather (on a
magnificent Yashica rangefinder camera).

The Ixus really is small enough to take everywhere, and although it gets
noisy at high ISO at least it lets you shoot hand-held (the image
stabilisation lets you hand hold to 1/8) and it was also pretty good for
macro. Good enough to use for forensic work. As you imply, digital makes
that a lot less fraught!

But of course it is really the photographer who takes the picture, not
the camera. It's easy to get too obsessed with the "tech". Assuming you
are the guy with the Flickr page, you don't need to apologise for your
hardware!

Steve

  #10  
Old May 23rd 16, 01:42 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Me
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 470
Default Canon S-120 versus Canon G7X

On 23/05/2016 09:06, newshound wrote:

But of course it is really the photographer who takes the picture, not
the camera. It's easy to get too obsessed with the "tech".

While I generally agree with that, and it's often quoted as if it was a
law or absolute, it also irks me somewhat with regard to what I actually
see:
What I see now is photos in magazines (not photographic magazines - I
don't read them much), some of which are marvelous not just in context
of composition etc, but they would not have been technically possible to
achieve until recently, low/natural light, high-speed etc.
 




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