Repairing carbon fiber - adhesive recommendations?

Just back from a trip where I had the unplanned experience of my Gitzo carbon fiber
tripod come apart on me.


The failure location is near the top of the tripod, between the top interface plate and
the top of the center column tube.

The (now revealed) bottom of the interface plate is like a plug that slides down inside
the ID of the center column tube. Looks like it was a glue failure. FYI these two parts
are also both keyed. This is intended to carry the torsion forces of screwing down a
ball head so as to minimize forces being imparted on the glue joint itself.

FYI, there's some silver-colored residue "stuff" which apparently was the
original glue/adhesive.

I quickly found this online reference, which a quick read suggests using either
superglue or some epoxies, etc:

https://www.permabond.com/materials_bonded/how-to-bond-carbon-fiber-2/


Suggestions?

I do know that my next step is to unpack the gear and check to see what material
the interface plate's "plug" is made out of; don't believe it to be carbon fiber as
it appears machined ... but black in color: I suspect it is anodized aluminum?

Similarly, what solvents to use to clean the surfaces will also need checking as well.


-hh

hh:

Just back from a trip where I had the unplanned experience of my Gitzo carbon
fiber tripod come apart on me.

You wouldn’t consider contacting Gitzo for a repair before gumming it up to
the point where they won’t even look at it?

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 11:09:44 AM UTC-5, Davoud wrote:
hh:

Just back from a trip where I had the unplanned experience of my
Gitzo carbon fiber tripod come apart on me.

You wouldn’t consider contacting Gitzo for a repair before gumming
it up to the point where they won’t even look at it?

Not really. Its an older model (no warranty) and Gitzo repair
services doesn't have a particularly good reputation: I'd rather
not be without the tripod for ~6 months.

FYI, the recommended cleaner appears to be denatured alcohol and
if one goes with 2-part epoxy, the recommendation is to avoid
the fast-set stuff because of heat generated; go with 24hr.


-hh

On 12/4/2019 11:22 AM, -hh wrote:
On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 11:09:44 AM UTC-5, Davoud wrote:
hh:

Just back from a trip where I had the unplanned experience of my
Gitzo carbon fiber tripod come apart on me.

You wouldn’t consider contacting Gitzo for a repair before gumming
it up to the point where they won’t even look at it?

Not really. Its an older model (no warranty) and Gitzo repair
services doesn't have a particularly good reputation: I'd rather
not be without the tripod for ~6 months.

FYI, the recommended cleaner appears to be denatured alcohol and
if one goes with 2-part epoxy, the recommendation is to avoid
the fast-set stuff because of heat generated; go with 24hr.

I agree with the 2-part epoxy. It will adhere to most materials and
provide good strength once it has set.

I don't know how important it would be to remove the existing residue,
since the epoxy may dissolve the residue while it sets.

--
best regards,

Neil

On 04/12/2019 12:18, -hh wrote:
Just back from a trip where I had the unplanned experience of my Gitzo carbon fiber
tripod come apart on me.


The failure location is near the top of the tripod, between the top interface plate and
the top of the center column tube.

The (now revealed) bottom of the interface plate is like a plug that slides down inside
the ID of the center column tube. Looks like it was a glue failure. FYI these two parts
are also both keyed. This is intended to carry the torsion forces of screwing down a
ball head so as to minimize forces being imparted on the glue joint itself.

FYI, there's some silver-colored residue "stuff" which apparently was the
original glue/adhesive.

I quickly found this online reference, which a quick read suggests using either
superglue or some epoxies, etc:

https://www.permabond.com/materials_bonded/how-to-bond-carbon-fiber-2/


Suggestions?

I do know that my next step is to unpack the gear and check to see what material
the interface plate's "plug" is made out of; don't believe it to be carbon fiber as
it appears machined ... but black in color: I suspect it is anodized aluminum?

Similarly, what solvents to use to clean the surfaces will also need checking as well.


-hh

Solvent: isopropanol or other alcohol, acetone will also work.

Glue: two part epoxy.

On 05/12/2019 00:13, RichA wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 17:33:50 UTC-5, newshound wrote:
On 04/12/2019 12:18, -hh wrote:

I do know that my next step is to unpack the gear and check to see what material
the interface plate's "plug" is made out of; don't believe it to be carbon fiber as
it appears machined ... but black in color: I suspect it is anodized aluminum?

Similarly, what solvents to use to clean the surfaces will also need checking as well.


-hh

Solvent: isopropanol or other alcohol, acetone will also work.

Glue: two part epoxy.

Acetone will dissolve the surface even more. Methyl Hydrate (100% wood alcohol) is the best cleaner. You can buy it in a hardware store.

I'm not sure which "surface" you are referring to. Acetone attacks a
number of polymers, but even in those cases *wiping* with acetone is a
good way to get a clean surface that epoxy or cyanoacrylate will bond to.

It may damage the finish of something that originally looked nice.

On 2019-12-04 07:18, -hh wrote:
Just back from a trip where I had the unplanned experience of my Gitzo carbon fiber
tripod come apart on me.


The failure location is near the top of the tripod, between the top interface plate and
the top of the center column tube.

The (now revealed) bottom of the interface plate is like a plug that slides down inside
the ID of the center column tube. Looks like it was a glue failure. FYI these two parts
are also both keyed. This is intended to carry the torsion forces of screwing down a
ball head so as to minimize forces being imparted on the glue joint itself.

FYI, there's some silver-colored residue "stuff" which apparently was the
original glue/adhesive.

I quickly found this online reference, which a quick read suggests using either
superglue or some epoxies, etc:

https://www.permabond.com/materials_bonded/how-to-bond-carbon-fiber-2/


Suggestions?

Epoxy is my choice. Note that full hardness takes about 24 hours.
(This will be on the epoxy instructions).

Initial setting can be accelerated with heat from a hair dryer (for
example) - but take care if there are parts that may expand and upset
the bonding area.

Use mild clamping force. It's good to do a mock setup to make sure
everything will hold together before mixing the expoxy.


I do know that my next step is to unpack the gear and check to see what material
the interface plate's "plug" is made out of; don't believe it to be carbon fiber as
it appears machined ... but black in color: I suspect it is anodized aluminum?

Similarly, what solvents to use to clean the surfaces will also need checking as well.

Isopropyl alcohol to clean parts before using epoxy. Let dry completely.

Dishsoap to clean expoxy messes before it sets (minutes).

I usually mix epoxy on a sheet of aluminum paper with a toothpick.

A later trick I use is the tops of jars. Then after the waste epoxy
sets the jar top is still available for later jobs.

On 2019-12-04 14:41, Neil wrote:
On 12/4/2019 11:22 AM, -hh wrote:
On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 11:09:44 AM UTC-5, Davoud wrote:
hh:

Just back from a trip where I had the unplanned experience of my
Gitzo carbon fiber tripod come apart on me.

You wouldn’t consider contacting Gitzo for a repair before gumming
it up to the point where they won’t even look at it?

Not really.Â* Its an older model (no warranty) and Gitzo repair
services doesn't have a particularly good reputation:Â* I'd rather
not be without the tripod for ~6 months.

FYI, the recommended cleaner appears to be denatured alcohol and
if one goes with 2-part epoxy, the recommendation is to avoid
the fast-set stuff because of heat generated; go with 24hr.

I agree with the 2-part epoxy. It will adhere to most materials and
provide good strength once it has set.

I don't know how important it would be to remove the existing residue,
since the epoxy may dissolve the residue while it sets.

Epoxy doesn't dissolve much, if anything. It's always best to have
surfaces that are as clean as possible. If they are very smooth, you
can 'rough' them up to improve bonding. With carbon fibre breaks it's
usually more than rough enough.

On Friday, December 6, 2019 at 10:15:02 AM UTC-5, Davoud wrote:
hh:

Just back from a trip where I had the unplanned experience of my
Gitzo carbon fiber tripod come apart on me.

Davoud:
You wouldn’t consider contacting Gitzo for a repair before gumming
it up to the point where they won’t even look at it?

hh:
Not really. Its an older model (no warranty) and Gitzo repair
services doesn't have a particularly good reputation: I'd rather
not be without the tripod for ~6 months.

I was unaware of Gitzo's bad reputation in repairs. Can you
cite a source for this information?

Noticed the pattern in some basic internet searches:

"After trying to get parts from the US Gitzo source, only to be
told of long delays, I found an alternative that actually stocks
most things."

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1036151


"Gitzo repair 1-1/2 months?"

"Sent it in for service under warranty in March....Received it
back fixed in August."

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4017780


-hh

On 12/6/2019 9:10 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2019-12-04 14:41, Neil wrote:
On 12/4/2019 11:22 AM, -hh wrote:
On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 11:09:44 AM UTC-5, Davoud wrote:
hh:

Just back from a trip where I had the unplanned experience of my
Gitzo carbon fiber tripod come apart on me.

You wouldn’t consider contacting Gitzo for a repair before gumming
it up to the point where they won’t even look at it?

Not really.Â* Its an older model (no warranty) and Gitzo repair
services doesn't have a particularly good reputation:Â* I'd rather
not be without the tripod for ~6 months.

FYI, the recommended cleaner appears to be denatured alcohol and
if one goes with 2-part epoxy, the recommendation is to avoid
the fast-set stuff because of heat generated; go with 24hr.

I agree with the 2-part epoxy. It will adhere to most materials and
provide good strength once it has set.

I don't know how important it would be to remove the existing residue,
since the epoxy may dissolve the residue while it sets.

Epoxy doesn't dissolve much, if anything.Â* It's always best to have
surfaces that are as clean as possible.Â* If they are very smooth, you
can 'rough' them up to improve bonding.Â* With carbon fibre breaks it's
usually more than rough enough.
As a read the OP's message, it didn't come across as a break, but a
disassembly of the leg and head mount. -hh wrote:

"The failure location is near the top of the tripod, between the top
interface plate and the top of the center column tube.

"The (now revealed) bottom of the interface plate is like a plug that
slides down inside the ID of the center column tube. Looks like it was
a glue failure. FYI these two parts are also both keyed. This is
intended to carry the torsion forces of screwing down a ball head so as
to minimize forces being imparted on the glue joint itself."

If so, the likely adhesive is epoxy, and the application of 2-part epoxy
would probably dissolve the original. If it didn't it wouldn't matter
because the parts would bond anyway.

--
best regards,

Neil