21MP 1Ds Mark III Announced

On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:56:36 -1000, Scott W wrote:

The DC3 in its time was a very good passenger plane, today it would be a
joke as a passenger plane. Time moves on, technology gets better and
expectations raise.

Yes, and these days quite a bit of plastic and epoxy is used. I
heard a news story about a week ago that mentioned a new method used
to build bridges which substitutes plastic for the steel encased in
concrete. It was said to result in a greater serviceable life per
bridge of about 50 years. But don't tell you-know-whoA.

Scott W wrote:
Matt Clara wrote:
ROFL, then every camera used for sports before digital must be a joke,
too! And yet they got good photos anyway!


The DC3 in its time was a very good passenger plane, today it would be a
joke as a passenger plane. Time moves on, technology gets better and
expectations raise.


DC3s are still in service as passenger planes - you can
charter them and/or go on scheduled tourist flights around
here. IIRC the stewardesses still serve scones with cream
and jam, and tea or coffee in proper cups.

What I don't see are DC8s, 707s, and Concorde airliners
flying in. Brand new airliners don't fly faster, don't fly
higher, and if the interior decor was up to date, then a
passenger's clues as to whether they were on a 50 year old
707 or brand new airbus would be in subtle details like
cabin width and the skinny looking old engines. Most people
wouldn't even notice.

frederick wrote:


What I don't see are DC8s, 707s, and Concorde airliners flying in.

Nor many 727's.

Well the Concorde is now permanently out-of-service. An era has passed
the likes of which we won't see for 25+ years ... if then.

07's and -8's have been converted to freighters, some to passenger
service. They need hush kits for most airports for day as well as night
departures. I did see some pax 707's in spanking new paint recently
(can't remember what airport, may have been Madrid or Schiphol ... or in
the US for that matter).

Brand new airliners don't fly faster, don't fly higher, and if the
interior decor was up to date, then a passenger's clues as to whether
they were on a 50 year old 707 or brand new airbus would be in subtle
details like cabin width and the skinny looking old engines. Most
people wouldn't even notice.

The cabins of the 707 and DC-8 were quite small compared to todays long
haul airliners. People would indeed notice.

707's can be expensively upgraded with quieter/more efficient engines
and the USAF does that with its tankers (KC-135's) which are "almost"
707's. But most 8's and 07's simply have stage II and III hush kits
(more weight and drag to boot).

DC-8's operate with updated high bypass fans (fat look) for UPS, Emery
and others. Not sure about 707's.

But the basic aerodynamic advances cannot be added at any cost. Todays
airliners are much optimized for fuel performance (weight and
aerodynamics). Most esp. wing advances, but fuselage as well. Future
versions of the 747 (if they come to fruition) will use wings derived
from the 777 design.

The 707 and DC-8 wings needed artifices like vortex generators to
maintain laminar flow at some speeds. Generating vortex' is of course
fuel wasting. This is not required (TMK) on any current design airliner.

And then aircraft like the 787 come along and blow everything out of the
water. It is much lighter and the wing yet another generation advanced
so more fuel savings to be had... further, no bleed air is taken from
the engines for ancillary power (a method that was somewhat fuel wasteful).

The -380 is very efficient in fuel per pax-mile compared to a 747-400,
and also in another very welcome way... gate efficiency. This will
allow airlines like Singapore who are limited to 3 gates per day at
Heathrow to increase their pax numbers more than they could by simply
adding more 7-400's.

The above points are just brushing the surface... Boeing considered
doing a higher speed transport (just under Mach 1.) but Sept. 11 came
along and changed the economics too much.

Cheers,
Alan.

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